Fan in Chicago

Or Summers has shown enough to be a FB who can also carry at times. But the outright release must be to get someone else on the roster.

What got lost in the muddy fist fight about the connection between immaturity & performance, is the fact that Stevie has proven himself over and over again as not being a clutch player. As one who will give you good statistical performances, yet let you down in key moments. If he caught that pass and we won, it would be hailed as one of his finest games due to the rest of his day. Setting aside his off-field behavior, purely on the basis of his in-game performances, I would get a big strong WR next year. Then renegotiate Stevie's contract, relegate him to the #3 role and preferably not have him on the field on key downs (keep said new WR, Woods, GOodwin and a new TE as catching options during critical moments)

It is likely that the coaches have been continuously drilling into EJ's head that it is better to fail long than fail short and risk an INT. Which is perhaps what you are saying. It was strange that Thad Lewis completed that bomb to Goodwin, yet EJ overthrew him the three times he tried. EJ's short accuracy is trending upwards compared to games earlier in the season. I have hopes that he continues to progress. Maybe it is a tough pill for us to swallow now, but compared to Geno's careless and ultimately fateful attitude towards QBing, I prefer the one the Bills coaches are taking. Of two bad choice (being ultra safe and opening it up early to a rookie risking turnovers), I prefer the earlier. A young 'un can easily fall into a bad habit of imagining himself to be a gunslinger and never get out of that mode later in his career.

We came out of a bye week against a 2-9 team and still lost

I like most of what you have written esp the part that the thin margin between winning and losing can cut both ways. Agree that a lot depends on how EJ develops and also that we need a good TE. On item #3 though, I would like to see yet another LB to complement Alonso and Lawson. Bradham and Moats may be good depth but they do not have the impact of the former two. So my off-season shopping list (draft or FA) is (in no particular order): Big WR, G, TE, LB, RB, CB

This is not an All-22 look but is a snap count of our players. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/12/2/5166720/bills-falcons-snap-counts-marquise-goodwin-kiko-alonso - I am not sure why TJ Graham still sees such a high percent of snaps. Goodwin's role is increasing but EJ and him have to get on the same page. Once that happens, look for TJ to become the #4 - Chandler, very underwhelming this year even without SUnday's drop, is in a lot. Speaks to our terrible TE situation - I have said in another thread, but it bears repeating tht with Spiller not n every-down back, we better draft Freddy's replacement next year - Jim Leonhard is over the hill, IMHO even with seeing the field so much

Yes, cannot write him off this year. Next year will be the critical one for him. What I am finding disappointing is that he seems to lose his man quite often. Is the scheme confusing him to where he believes he has to hand off a WR to a safety when he is really not supposed to ? He just seems to be lacking the instinct which I saw in him last year. I want him to play a lot for the rest of this season as we can salvage a lost season for key player evaluations at least.

Not to derail this conversation, but I can't recall any reports that the Bills were interested at all.

Or traded for Alex Smith to set a firm floor in the short/medium term

Home record aside, I am favoring the Saints. They will be pumped to establish themselves as the NFC #1. Seattle also, but I think Brees' experience will win this.

It is tough to see. In a scheme where Aaron Williams (new scheme and new position) and McKelvin (who I had pretty much given up on) have both thrived, Gilmore seems to have gone the other way. Initially I attributed it to rust and the club, but now I am getting mildly concerned. He seems to have the talent, best utilized in press coverage, but seems to get beat a lot lately. Is it the dreaded sophomore slump ?

I am done debating with you.

Pat myself on the back ? Is that the crux of your complaint ? There are no victors in a situation when the Bills lose a game. Here is why I am regurgitating old conversations – in those earlier conversations, many on this board were discussing his picture with ‘USS FUHKMORE’ and his tweet regarding N Korea and Foxboro. What some of us were saying was that there is a disturbing pattern to Stevie’s behavior – drop against Steelers, his excessive celebration penalties, the above social media behavior etc. No one claimed any medical or psychological correlation between the on field and off field stuff. But what I did wonder is if his general lack of immaturity causes him to either try too hard or lose concentration in key moments where he is subconsciously looking to create a big moment. In that instant of losing focus, he makes game altering mistakes. To this opinion, there were several here that roundly derided that point of view and said things like ‘lighten up’ or ‘he is just a clown’ etc. Me bringing up the old threads was meant to point out how a casual hand waving is not always the right thing to do. The Bills traded Lynch because his off-field behavior would some day cause a suspension or arrest which would hurt the Bills. Stevie, which never in trouble with the law, has displayed judgment and behavior which paints an overall poor picture of him. Guy who gets yards, gets open, yet will let you down in big moments. If you see the above logic as my attempt to take a victory lap, then I am pretty sure you are not being objective about the situation. Are you just mad that Big Cat, Badol, me were right in being concerned ? You accuse us of patting ourselves on the back and taking victory laps, but you are just failing to acknowledge that, UNFORTUNATELY, the concerns we expressed with his behavior has come true and affected the outcome on at least three games now. That is about as much defense I can provide my point of view. I am being civil about this discussion and would encourage you to respond in kind.

You seem to be beating down on points that Big Cat and I am making - that Stevie has repeatedly shown a lack of maturity on and off the field. What point are you making or defending ? You are coming across as a rebel without a cause.

Actually, I linked two of those threads a couple of pages back. As I just said a few posts back, a simple glance through the pages shows that a majority were actually excusing his North Korea comment and 'USS FUHKMORE' shirt as merely funny transgressions which have no bearing on on-field performance. Unfortunately, the growing body of evidence clearly suggests that he is unable to contain his antics off the field, concentrate fully at key moments on the field and has little inclination to own up to his mistakes.

Fred Jackson

Not that you need support for your points, but just for fun, I dug up this thread and some post in them to bolster your statements above .... Glancing through that thread, I realized that there were very few of us who called him out on his immaturity and likely negative impact on the field. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/159612-are-the-billsstevie-gonna-regret-this-photo-posted-on-fb/page__st__160 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/159612-are-the-billsstevie-gonna-regret-this-photo-posted-on-fb/page__st__200 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/157064-steve-johnsons-interesting-tweet/page__st__160 Shameless & depressing 'I told you so' from April , 2013: "He was in check last season but this transgression makes me wonder if he will once again cause a stupid penalty or drop a catch that costs us a game. I am not confident any more that he is mature enough to handle all game situations."

In the offseason, I came to grips with what was an emerging trend - immature Stevie spouting his mouth off and making juvenile 'LAMP' antics. On the field, great route runner with the ability to out-move the best of CBs. But very much a toss up in the clutch. This season, his antics have been minimal but his performance is disappointing. Any team will have its ups and downs throughout the game. The Bills are fielding a rookie QB (who contrary to your opinion, I feel has been learning adequately throughout the season) and 2 rookie WRs. There will be lows (like a very cold 3rd Q on O yesterday) but it was telling that we were within a field goal of winning the game. Our #1 WR has to make the catch and keep possession and yet SJ came up very small. I am tired of his personality and his shaking off of accountability. I would not be surprised or disappointed if he is shopped around in the off-season and the Bills decide to make a major push to upgrade the TE position and get a physical WR to complement Woods and Goodwin. I know it is not a popular opinion, but I wont miss SJ much if he is gone. He has been limited in his effectiveness this year (ability, effort, injuries) and is not the kind of #1 WR we need.

That is all that matters. I dont give a flying hoot what Tomlin's reasons were or the circumstances around him not knowing his own location on the field. He was wrong and should have been flagged.

No one held a gun to the Colts' head. It was a conscious, and in retrospect, a stupid deal. Excuses. A 'lesser' RB like Fred Jackson overcome similar conditions to keep trudging on year after year. Also, Adrian Peterson has not had a good QB to help the running game .

I agree. Trading Hughes to us was a bad decision by them (IMHO, the Bills got the better end of the deal) But the Trent Richardson trade takes the cake. A very good QB can cover up a lot of faults but items like this eventually catch up with the team in the long term,

I think we need to draft a RB to prepare for life after Jackson. We will always need a hard runner and as good as Freddie has been, we never know when he will fall off a cliff given his age. Having said that, I DO NOT want to use a first rounder for a RB - EVER again. Perhaps in the 2nd or 3rd round. Also, don't discount a big strong WR to complement Woods and Goodwin. So for the first 4 rounds, I would like to see a LB, G, WR and RB (not necessarily in that order).

What a catch in double coverage by Fitzgerald !! AZ up 14-3 on Indy

I am willing to go out on a limb and say that if one person has to go, it will be Shanny over RG III. Besides his mouth, RG III showed enough in his rookie year to secure his place on the team. Shanny OTOH, can be replaced. Not a potential franchise QB

With respect to Kaepernick, not being seen in Dolphins gear and then defending himself would be a good start. Not sure, but looks like he kinda got too comfortable in SF once Smith was traded. He is learning now never to take anything for granted. I don't have a problem in the way he accepted blame for that play. I do take issue with him basically giving the Eagles kudos for their game plan.