krazykat

Why, Losman wasn't "hopelessly bad" before we scrapped him. I mean come on, 17 TDs/9 INTs = "hopelessly bad"? Those are extremely average numbers.

Actually, I'm not a Losman guy. Never have been. Thought it was dumb to trade up for him in round one while everyone here applauded the move. Funny the irony.

OK, let's take this one piece at a time then. Losman's performance in '06 outperformed what Edwards did last year.

Suppose Edwards flops, just suppose, and that it becomes clear fairly early in the season that he's showing no improvement regarding the ability to lead the team's offense either downfield or into the end zone. At what point do those of you supporting Edwards pull the plug permanently on the youngster? Because in spite of my criticism for Edwards and insistence that he's never going to do anything here, partly for reasons of his own and partly for reasons having little to do with him, I still take the stance that you really need to give a QB a couple of solid full starting seasons to be fair. Losman never got that, he got one. In '05 he and Holcomb were interchanged like pegs on an old time telephone switchboard. He had a shot in '06 where he outperformed Edwards by a long shot and with nearly a 2-to-1 TD/INT ratio at 17/9, yet the media and fans dismissed that in favor of the young Edwards who replaced him last season after just a handful of starts again. Clearly a Jauron thing since Edwards was their guy. Edwards got the last half of last season and now starts this one. So let's say that Edwards performs poorly again. He doesn't throw many TDs relative to even average NFL QBs, the team's red zone and scoring woes don't let up, etc. At what point do you begin talking about replacement and with whom do you replace him? As I see it the team, fans, and media now owe it to Edwards to give him at least two full seasons on his own before discarding hiim. That means through '09. But that hasn't been the pattern here outside of Bledsoe and he got way more time than necessary for a veteran with known issues. I'm thinking if this happens, then most of those that support Edwards now will be the ones quick to pull the trigger on getting him out of there either during or immediately following the season. But IMO that's not fair in spite of the notion that I don't think he's ever going to amount to much in the NFL. IMO he, just like any QB, should be given an absolute minimum of two full starting seasons, which Losman did not get and what he did get was with a lesser cast of offensive talent than what Edwards has to work with. Also, if this does happen, Losman isn't the guy to put in since we have all but burned our bridges with him, and honestly, he should leave after the way he's been treated here. So given an Edwards failure, what next and when? Who, Matt Baker? Either way, we can't keep on giving QBs one season and parts of others. It's poor leadership.

Seems like just a few years ago now that Spikes and McGahee were going to all but singlehandedly revolutionize Bills football and propel us to championship caliber levels, doesn't it.

Unlike here where everyone writes like seasoned Pulitzer winners. Unlike here where the reality about the seven time Super Bowl Champion Bills continues to be put down.

Right, just like Wilson's been so "open and honest" with us, right. Screw Wilson. He's no friend of Buffalonians!

Inconsequential IMO. Look at the list of owners that have made the Hall of Fame and their credentials. If that's it, then it's weak at best.

What has Ralph done practically PG to warrant inclusion into the Hall of Fame? I realize that's sacrilege here, but seriously, what has he done besides buy a team for a song, then move it to the NFL as if that were some really tough decision and one formulated entirely by him? His teams haven't won a championship in the NFL in almost 40 years! His having one one in the AFL, a league of 8 teams, isn't all that impressive since 6 of 8 teams in that league did in that decade, a couple even when the league was 10 teams. No on talks about San Diego, KC, or Houston in the same context with any credibility. He's personally fired some of the best and brightest GMs in the business and ones that had a very good track record here and even better ones since leaving! He's noted for meddling with the teams affairs, never producing anything giving fans reason to thank him and usually only giving fans reason to wish he had just minded his own senile business! People say he's some great business man, but so what, he bought a team for $25,000, a real stretch in those days (sarcasm), it hit big so that he owns it outright. Kind of a no-brainer. Then he's been as cheap as cheap can be, personally hired some of the stupidest and/or most unqualified people in the business to run his team who in turn hired others equally unqualified and incompetent. The one time in the history of the franchise where his team sustained any success it was purely by accident due to his then GM having a heart attack and his having to grasp at straws and making a lucky decision with Polian, whom he later fired because of a tiff that Polian had in the office with his daughter, who's been so marvelous at doing something good for this team. (more sarcasm) I mean seriously, besides this dumb notion that he loves the people of Buffalo more than he does his own family, while living in Detroit and simultaneously having given the fans absolutely nothing on his own or as a direct result of one of his calculated decisions, what has he done that merits Hall entry?

Montana also had a deep timing pattern the likes of which has never been repeated in the NFL for a huge part of his success. Those passes went to a little known receiver named Jerry Rice. The Bills are a few pieces shy of being able to duplicate such an offense. First of all the Niner OL back then was killer with Pro Bowl Centers like Jesse Sapulu and Fred Quillan, Pro Bowl Guards like Randy Cross and Guy McIntyre, and Pro Bowl Tackles like Keith Fahnhorst and Harris Barton, and when your weak link on the line is a guy like Bubba Paris, then little needs to be said. Obviously we don't have a line that can touch that one. Lynch may be better than Craig though, who knows and time will tell. But if we don't take some heat off of him he's gonna be finished due to injuries in a couple of seasons just like Ricky Williams got beat up in Miami early in his career. We have no one capable of taking Rathman's role on the roster currently. We don't have anyone on the team like Jerry Rice, John Taylor, or Dwight Clark, all Pro Bowl WRs although Evans is very good, just not in the mode of those players. We also don't have a Pro Bowl TE like Brent Jones. So any preseason comparisons to SFs old Montana day WCO can be filed under wishful thinking. If this team attempts to emulate that it will hinder itself from progressing. It doesn't have the personnel to run it effectively which should have been proven last year. The introduction of a WR isn't going to change it all like that. If this team is going to progress towards the playoffs, it's gonna be with a more conservative ball control style offense, even one predicated on the short passing game if necessary. But it will have to rely on the strength of the D, whatever that rises to, and an offense that just doesn't make mistakes and can keep the ball for more plays and more time than opponents. You guys put way too much emphasis on Trent through all of this, first of all setting up disappointment, but more importantly not seeing where the team will really find its groove.

Kelly Holcomb

I'm sure that Novak has a habit of bringing his own liquor into bars too. lol

I think we all know when we really are honest with ourselves that Edwards' didn't get sacked all that much because he was in a system, which admittedly according to Schonert if you read that article on him, he wasn't thrown to the wolves last year and it was designed first and foremost to keep hiim from getting too much pressure. IMO the team had made up its mind that it didn't want JP in there (Donahoe's guy) and wanted their own, probably because Marv was buddies with Walsh and Walsh said this or that because that's the kind of guy Marv is, that they arranged it so that Losman wouldn't succeed and it would give them the perfect opportunity to put Edwards in, allow him to get his feet wet, prepare himself for this season which is supposed to be his grand coming out. Otherwise how can we explain the fact that the team changed everything around for Losman who came off of a 17TD/9INT season. If they really wanted JP to succeed, or the team to succeed under him, they would have run a similar offense than they did. Instead, they ran one not suited to his strengths and when he failed put in Edwards. I admit, I will be pleasantly surprised if we finish this year under Edwards ranked in the top half for sacks allowed. I'm expecting 30+ sacks again. But you know what, if it's accompanied by 24 TDs/18INTs, so what, it was worth it rather than 10 sacks and no damn ball movement or scoring.

Correct, other than for the sake of discussion which is what forums are all about.

Yeah, that's right. It's not as if JP is gonna take us to the moon and back. We're not making the playoffs this year so who really cares.

You make my point entirely. TE's play has nothing to do with JP's. But look at the above, all you do is make excuses for TE. He hasn't done anything yet. Nothing. That combined with a bunch of excuses is not a valid predictor that he's going to be something that he's never been. But you and others here don't seem to be able to understand that and have a tantrum anytime anyone tries to explain it to you. I don't care about JP, I really don't. He's probably leaving after the season anyway, so what's the point. But I do see a lot more upside to his starting than w/ Edwards. And yes, there is a degree of subjectivity there so it is debatable. But based on last year's production and play by the offense, the best thing that can be said in Edwards' defense is that there's no difference. That's the best thing, otherwise you must defer to JP if past performance is indicative of future success. Otherwise I guess I'm sorry that you seem to prefer a QB that looks good in there rather than one that gets more acccomplished. Maybe you should apply for a position with the team, they seem to share your views.

Well thank you.

That's an excuse too. That's fine, and I don't disagree. But what it doesn't suggest is that he's only on his way up this year. You cannot make that conclusion from what you're saying. You can hope, but evne the facts paint a different picture.

OK, I'm a troll then, whatever makes you happy.

Here are the flaws in your reasoning. You attribute team scoring to the offense and QB. I have never attributed D/STs scoring to the offense or QB or blamed them when they didn't come. As to your ridiculous example of the Fins, they had far more injuries in the second game, you can look that up yourself. Oh, but I forgot, injuries only make a difference when you're us. My error. In the meantime try subtracting the 28 point from D and Sts scores that Edwards got compared with only 7 for JP and also don't forget to subtract from Edwards and give to JP the only TD in the 13-3 Jets game that you probably counted for Edwards. If you do all that then you'll be squared away. In 9 Edwards' starts the team put up 10 offensive TDs. And actually, in reviewing, where I made an error is not giving Trent the credit for the 7 points that Lynch got in the first NE game that he didn't start. So that makes 11 of 20 offensive TDs in 9 starts, really 10 total games since Edwards played pretty much the entire first NE game, right. That means that under JP the team put up 9 TDs in 7 starts but really only 6 games because he only played two plays. So then, under JP the team's offense scored 9 TDs or an average of 1.5/game. Under Edwards, the team's offense scored 11 TDs in 10 games or an average of 1.1/game. So under Losman the team's offense did in fact score 50% (or so) more by normal math. Otherwise I really don't see too much of a difference other than that the TO ratio in games that Edwards started was +13 including the first Pats game whereas it was then -4 in games that Losman started not including that game. Now presumably we can agree that having a TO ratio difference of 17 makes a difference in the team's logging wins. Otherwise, you cannot alter the fact that in 6 of Edwards' 9 starts not a single passing TD was thrown and in 5 of the same 9 games not a single offensive TD was made. After that, you confuse me with someone that thinks that JP is something besides a very questionable QB. I don't think the team is that much different under either one. Meanwhile, your intentional skewing of the Fins game to suggest that somehow Edwards was responsible for all 38 points when in fact 7 came from a Wilson FR for a TD whereas in the Cincy game under JP the team put up almost 500 yards of offense and scored all 33 points if you include the FGs. Granted, only 21 points from the O otherwise. And look, contrary to the gang mentality here I'm not a big Losman fan. I was against the trading up to get him at the time. Either way the team is in a world of hurt. I just don't share everyone's enthusiasm for the next on a long list of what I see as pretty predictable failures. When I'm wrong you can lambaste me til the cows come home, I won't care. But I won't be on Edwards. He's not gonna do well this year and eveyrone's gonna be disappointed. I'd like to start seeing some open letters to Wilson telling him to get serious about this team. Instead when some of the dumbest moves that any football team has ever made are made by him everyone kisses his a$$ and says what great moves they were. If he had been doing this from the start then we wouldn't be having conversations like this.

1. Excuse 2. Excuse 3. They changed the offense up on him and clearly wanted Edwards in there as their man. There were already rumblings prior to the season starting. It wasn't a big shock. Still, you laud Edwards implicitly, but still, no one addresses the fact that under Edwards the team produced significantly fewer 1st downs, fewer points/game although not by anything significant, and converted significantly fewer 3rd downs raising questions indeed as to how much Edwards actually contributed to wins with hardly any offensive point production. I mean can I say that it was because of Brad Butler that we won all of our games last year? Regardless, I fail to see how less production means greater contributions. No matter how you slice it, it was worse under Edwards. Except for the "poise" of course.

Less scoring too apparently, huh. LOL Which statements are you referring to? Without citing them I don't know..

So in your mind then having compiled a 5-4 record as a starter, with wins against teams that were collectively 23-57 or an average of 5-11 is all that matters then, huh, especially when it was because the defense held pathetic offensive teams down. In four of those five wins the Bills scored a total of three offensive TDs. And you think that Edwards contributed heavily to those wins. Whatever. Well, good for you. I personally expect a little bit more from my teams. But hey, to each his own.

JP had his horns yanked by his own team in '05 with that in/out involving Holcomb, whom Edwards reminds me of in spades. As to Edwards, he had one good game against Miami. Otherwise he sucked to beat the band last year. So he'd better come out and throw more than two or three good games against 1-15 teams or things are going to go from bad to worse for us. Obviously my confidence in that happening is zero.

Wouldn't it be a lot more encouraging and refreshing to hear about a guy like the University of Miami's Shannon in the same regard and with some hopes besides just an author's opinion. For once I'd like to read about how our coaches achieved success here and not just got hired by the Buffalo Bills and their "we say it's gonna happen" mentality. It would be refreshing to read about how we went from DFL to the third seed in the playoffs and how we upset the top seed to go to the SB and win it. If we want stuff like this we can all subscribe to O.