RLflutie7

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought Moon had played in the 1979 or 1980 Rose Bowl. I kind of had a feeling that something didn't seem right with his draft status. Now, if you are correct, for him to blame it on racism is stupid. If you want to be drafted, wait until the draft.

I see your point. Question: Why would NFL people say he was too short then? Seems odd. Plus they said he had a weak arm which is even dumber. Doug Williams was drafted in the first round before Moon came out of college. Truely, what's the difference? That's what I'm asking by making this post. What was it. Moon said it was a "double whammy" being black and having physical abilities questioned.

It's always fun to be a Broncos fan at this time of year because we're never afraid of going after guys that we want. And pretty much most of the league doesn't get involved so it's easy to get guys you want. The Broncos have done this every year. We always bring in a bunch of new guys. It makes it interesting. The Plummer issue: I always liked Plummer and I don't really blame him if he feels like he got the shaft. I started having doubts about him before his run in 2005, but he did deliver as well as could be expected. Plus we got rid of Griese to get him and that's what I wanted. I don't care if we get anything for him tradewise because that's football. Some guys get injured before they hit the trading block and you never get anything for them. Running back: I think we got ripped off trading Tatum Bell and George Foster because it's a second round and 1st round and fifth round picks. But if we get Travis Henry, Corey Dillion, Ahman Green, Thomas Jones, Willis McGahee then it's not that much of a loss. But I want, in order: Henry, McGahee, Dillion, Jones and Green. If we don't get McGahee we can always draft a player. Bottom line: McGahee is in a flooded market. The biggest guy I want is Atlanta DL Patrick Kerney.

The NFL network is running shows on NFL QBs right now. One called "Masters of the Game" and the second one on right now is called NFL QB the art and science of quarterbacking. The 1st show just had a mini-feature about Warren Moon. They talked about him going to the CFL. He said there were three strikes against him when he came out of college. He said they told him he 1. didn't have a strong enough arm. 2. didn't come from a "pro style offense". 3. he was too short. After watching the show "Third and a mile" (Black QB show on NFL network), I convinced it's because he's not 6-3. He was simply too short. P.S. Why would the NFL take Doug Williams with the 1st pick and not Moon? They were only a few years apart.

I may be wrong. I never thought he was short until I watched that show. If anything he probably weighs more and he just looks shorter than he really is.

I'm thinking that's not true. I think his agent inflated that number. He's probably 6-0 to 6-1 which isn't bad . . . the guy had a great arm.

I watched the show third and a mile on NFL Network. It's also been played on ESPN. I think the show has a lot of merit that black QBs were not welcome in the NFL at a certain period in time. But the show also calls into question if that's the only reason. In other words, a lot of the QBs in the show were too short by NFL standards. Those include Marlin Briscoe (5-8 or 5-9), Marcus Allen's brother, Damon Allen, a CFL star and Warren Moon. If you watch the show and look for how short some of these guys really are, it really calls into question if skin color was the only reason they didn't make it in the NFL (Moon did). --Marlin Briscoe -as a matter of fact Lou Saben (spelling) said Briscoe was too short. Briscoe was a starting QB for the Broncos at one point and still holds the rookie record for TD passes for a Bronco QB. But Briscoe got the job because of injuries to the starter. Kind of an emergency situation. He was later traded to the Bills and played wide receiver with the Bills and Dolphins as you all probably know. --Damon Allen holds the record for the most passing yards in pro football and still plays at 43 years old. But when he went to the scouting combine he was 150 lbs and they asked him to play another position. Plus in the show, he's standing next Warren Moon and his brother Marcus and Marcus is a lot taller than both Damon and Warren Moon. I watched Damon Allen play in the CFL when Flutie played up there and the guy can really throw the ball. He probably still could play in the NFL on arm strength alone but he's still short. He's says if they'd call he'd go to the NFL. --Warren Moon said they told him he didn't have a good enough arm (which was BS) and that he was too short. And if you watch the show and look at Warren Moon, he looks short. They had video of him at the hall of fame and he's standing next to Lee Steinberg (his agent) and uncovering his bust at the hall of fame inductions and Moon is not that much taller. I don't know hall tall Steinberg is, but he looks short me. --Finally, If you think about the QBs that are black and NFL teams that gave them an elite position with their teams . . . Most all fit the elite big and tall QB mold. i.e. 1. James Harris, 2. Doug Williams, 3. Randell Cunningham, 4. Steve McNair, 5. Daunte Culpepper, 6. Vince Young, 7. Jason Campbell (Redskins), 8. Tony Banks, 9. Donavan McNabb, 10. Byron Leftwich. The one that doesn't fit this mold is Michael Vick. The ones that didn't fit that the big and tall mold that were passed by i.e. 1. Shaun King, 2. Andre Ware, 3. Kordell Stewart, 4. Seneca Wallace, 5. Anthony Wright, 6. Michael Bishop, 7. Jarious Jackson, etc etc. And this pattern is at the scouting combine. Leak and Smith are too short and JaMarcus Russell is the top pick in the draft.

Kiss my rear. The guy in preseason games made it look like man vs. boys. Then he got his touches in regular season and proved he could play.

I've seen him play in many games because Flutie was with the Chargers. I noticed him in a preseason game as a rookie when I lived in Arizona. First he seems to have a great attitude. He runs with leverage and power and he's a starter in my book. He's also good at short yardage. Another running back that did well with San Diego was Jesse Chatman. And he just resigned with the Miami Dolphins. He probably won't play that much but he's a good backup. Cam probably remembers him from the Chargers.

As a Bronco fan, I'll make that trade. I'll take Willis. Tatum Bell has been a disappointment.

He hasn't said anything that I've heard. He seems to do a good job with NFL Network. He's a viable option if he plays and I think he can still play if he wants.

I don't think Peterson will last until the eighth pick so I don't know what to think. The Raiders need a running back as does Detroit. They both also could use a QB so who knows what is going to happen. Plummer is done in Denver and Tatum Bell has always been a disappointment. The Broncos need a running back if they put Bell in a deal with Plummer. But Mike can always surprise in the draft. I think Denver could also use a wideout.

I think you go with stuffing the run 1st, pass rush 2nd and secondary 3rd. If you look at the Colts however they gave up 173 ypg in the regular season and 82 ypg in the post season. So you could make an arguement that attitude effects the running game more than anything. But when Denver won Superbowls they had a top rush defense and a very suspect pass defense.

Great post. I lived in Arizona at the time when Dave McGinnis and the Cardinal brain trust drafted Leonard Davis. I knew he'd be a bust and I think pretty much everyone thought the same thing. When are coaches going to get over the "size is everything" when it comes to offensive line. Davis has a bad back and it's probably because he's overweight. The Cardinals could have had LT and they needed a running back.

Yes. He can't get his team in the endzone.

I can't wait to see the new QB in Houston and watch the sacks go down by 50%. Plus Romo took over for Bledsoe in Dallas and all of a sudden that O-line looked much better (Although they still new improvement in the future).

I couldn't agree more with this post. I don't understand the hatred of Rex Grossman. And that's my point about David Carr. Carr plays terrible for 4 years and never gets ripped. Grossman plays great with 23 TD passes in his first full season as a starter and Chicago wants to run him out of town. Rex proved he can make all the throws. He's a younger Brett Farve type player.

The Texans say they want a 2nd through 5th round pick for him. I wouldn't give them a dime for him. He's one of the biggest QB bust in NFL history. The funny thing to me was how Carr dodged the critics. McNabb and Vick get ripped all the time and with Carr you never hear a peep. People laugh at Ryan Leaf, yet Carr was just as bad. I don't think he'll even make it as a backup. I'm thinking Jeff Garcia would be a perfect fit for the Texans. I think they'll be a surprise team if they get better at QB.

You make a very valid arguement and it's well thought out. I think there's a clear difference between the two (Manning and Brady). Manning seems to have many more "downfield TD passes". The system does indeed distort how QB stats look and how performance is viewed. To me, the West Coast offense has hurt the NFL in several ways. 1. A smaller more athletic guy is more inclinded to succeed in a West Coast offense (Jeff Garcia) and these guys may not be able to throw the downfield pass as well. 2. The long ball (like Terry Bradshaw type passes) has left the building. Which makes for a more boring game. A boring field-position type game. I think bringing the long pass back (Jim Plunkett comes to mind) is needed. What better way to change bad field position than the long pass. 3. A lot of bigger guys are simply not suited to run a West coast offense (Mark Rypien, Kerry Collins are a few that come to my mind) and coaches are drafting these big guys and trying to force a West Coast system on them (Jim Drunkenmiller 49ers). 4. Many people ignore how hard it is to find throwing lanes in the West Coast offense. It's not just short guys, but tall guys as well. All that traffic in such a small area. I think that's one of the reasons why Tom Brady is so good, he finds throwing lanes so well in the short passing game. The disadvantages to the vertical passing game are that so few QBs are truely good at it and that's a big problem and I think that's why coaches like that WC system so much. Most long ball throwers that were good are legends. Terry Bradshaw, Joe Nameth, John Elway, Dan Marino, Jim Plunkett and Troy Aikman are certainly the most celebrated QBs in NFL history. While I think the Tom Brady's, Joe Montana's and Steve Youngs are viewed differently and it's why I like the big arm QBs (Ryan Leaf, Jeff George) so much. My favorite player now is Jake Delhomme, and man, can he hit the home run ball. It's interesting that I always liked Flutie so much because so many here thought he had a rag arm. I happen to believe Flutie had a great arm. It's also interesting to note that Peyton had so many dump offs to the running backs in the Super Bowl.

Very well said. Terrell Davis didn't last very long did he. Six seasons and out.

Very well said. If the Bills would have run the ball a little more against the Giants in 1990 they would have won.

I agree with most of what you say. Manning didn't get his team in the end zone that much in the redzone. But he didn't make the stupid mistakes like he did in the past. Like throwing INTs in the endzone against the Patroits in the playoffs a few years ago. Consider this: "The defense carried this day for the Colts" Rich Eisen NFL Network. I've never seen a QB play so poorly stat wise in the playoffs and come out with the trophy.

I don't blame you, but keep in mind that if these SB games get good ratings we might get more 70s, 80's, 90s games.

The Bears because they are a better team and I think they'll stuff the Colts running game.

Superbowl 25 will re-air on the NFL Network on Thursday at 8:30 p.m. This is the original broadcast. Also, Since I'm one of Peyton Mannings biggest critics on this board I thought I'd give him some credit because he got to the Superbowl and he did it the hard way. I don't think the Colts will win because Chicago is the better team.