RLflutie7

Yep. I have to go to the post office. Hit the board DC Tom. What's your reply.

Thanks for the link and the input. I hope something like this can work. At least they know that high performance is what matters and the American customer won't trade down.

I'm asking DC Tom other than blaming unions. How do you fix the Big 3. I've heard many here and on TV say the Big 3 make autos no one wants to buy. That's not true. It's a lie. The Big 3 invented the SUV and it became the dominant auto in the USA the last decade. Now it's not working. I want to know what the solution is. People say small cars are the answer. Does DC Tom agree with that?

I already did. GM could never have seen this market condition coming. And making small cars is not the answer to the problem. Your thoughts?

OK. I'll believe you. But can you tell me what those "many levels" are?

Why don't you add something to the discussion.

I didn't see the 2008 numbers. I stand corrected. But what is the profit margin on the truck compared to that little piece of garbage Prius. Also, why did Prius drop from 12,494 to 8,660? Did you type that in correctly? And I don't see that trend becoming the the rule in auto sales. SUVs are going to return to power, like it or not. SUVs rule, it's not a question. The best selling auto is the Ford F150 isn't it?

OK. I find that hard to believe but, I'll take your word for it. I watched a show on PBS that Alan Alda did on the cars of the future. He interviewed a Toyota product developer and they said the following: Americans want performance. And they continued to say that performance is at odds with good gas milage.

Idealism does not run a business. Americans want performance and I'm not sure fuel efficiency is going to work. Trimming down the lines and brands is a good idea.

I don't get you at all!! You just proved my point again. Americans like bigger cars and trucks. The Toyota Prius had a 23.8 percent increase (12,494 units sole) while the FULL SIZE TOYOTA TUNDRA posted a 61.4% increase (19,571 units sold). which one is better? All you have to look at is the units sold. Plus the profit is better on the truck. Do yourself a favor and stop posting to prove my point.

So we agree with Ford. I guess that's good. Why do you think Congress was grilling Chrysler more than GM and Ford? Because Chrysler has an owner that can invest money into a very viable company and they want a hand out instead. And, being the retard that you are, you just repeated what I said about GM. "They didn't know Chrysler was going to sh-- the bed like this." Neither did GM and Ford!!!! The only issue that you have a leg to stand on is the quality issue and how it caused GM to lose market share. Every other arguement that you make contradicts itself and you can't even see it. What a retard!

The Camry is not a small car. Get over it. The Corolla is a small car and the sales numbers you posted are a temporary business development. How long before the American public goes back to driving gas guzzlers? All these small cars are going to be traded in for Big SUVs in the near future. The Amercian Consumer has not learned the lesson. You'll see.

So your saying Toyota just makes small cars? What is your point?

You'll never get it and you'll always work for someone else. Toyota DOES NOT MAKE MOSTLY SMALLER CARS. Are you dumb? Most of Toyota's lineup is a V6 or higher and they've also concentrated on Big SUVs and trucks. Following GMs lead. What they've done is concentrate on stealing market share. More power to them. They did a better job at that.

Another stupid post: Why should they dump cash into Chrysler, which is a hugely risky investment? Because that's what owning and running a business is all about. What the hell do you think running a business is about, man? It's not going to always be positive. You have to ride out the bad times to get to the good times. Would I dump money into Chrysler>>>>> Yes!! If I have money and I want to keep my business going. I'm willing to show the gov't good faith by doing so . . . until I can sell it or merge with GM. BTW Ford said they don't need the money. There's a big difference in what Ford is doing compared to what Chrysler is doing. Chrysler is acting like a weasel plan and simple. And that's why you don't want Private Equity firms running things. They bought Chrysler for a bargain basement price. They knew about the UAW when they did and now they're acting like weasels.

It's not a good idea for the US gov't to let the car makers go. I think you need to follow the news a little better. That's what the president said.

You missed my point> and now you are the dumbest person on this message board. I SAID THEY DID NOT MAKE BAD DECISIONS. GM made products that FAT AZZ Americans wanted. Market forces changed overnight. It's impossible to correct the situation overnight. They deserve a bailout. Former GM CEO Roger Smith said it best: "Americans don't like small cars" Vintage 1979. And . . . he was right.

I forgot> Gas prices have killed Toyota as well. Toyota sales dropped. I think I read 28% or 35%.

I am none of those. I just landed a new job. I was unemployed, the first time in my life. I ran my own business for 10 years and I know a BS situation when I see it. I know all about risk, I've lived it. I don't like what Chrysler is pulling. They have owners that have the money to put into the business. GM does not. Regardless of all of that: YOU DON'T TREAT BUSINESS PARTNERS THAT WAY. IT'S NOT DONE THAT WAY REGARDLESS OF HOW BAD IT IS. What's so wrong with a buyout? What's so wrong with a buyout with governement money. Wall Street gets the money. You have no problem with insurance agents getting massages at a resort, but the car dealer can just can eat s--t. Last I checked AIG was insolvent.

You are the dumbest person on this message board. THE AMERICAN CONSUMER HATES SMALL CARS. THE AMERICAN CONSUMER WILL NEVER WANT TO DRIVE A 4-banger (4 Cyl car). The American consumer likes big cars and truck with big engines. The American consumer likes V8 engines and they hate 4 cyl. engines. Why do you think Toyota and Honda don't have small cars in their lineup any longer? They came to the USA with just 4-bangers. Wall Street did not make American consumers buy SUVs. I never said that. I said: Wall Street created an oil price bubble through deception and lies (China using tons of oil - that was a lie) and caused a crash in demand of SUVs. Decades long slide for the big 3: We must be getting our information from a different source. The Big 3 were booking record profits not long ago (based on big SUVs and Trucks). Volume fell, you got me there. But profits were way up. It's impossible for any automaker to respond that quickly. Do you want them to build small gas savers and let them rot on the car lots for years just so they can be ready for what "might" happen? Get a clue! No business would operate that way. And they can't operate that way and they won't operate that way. And you are right. They are going to go back to selling gas guzzlers. I don't have an answer for that. I said in another post that the Big 3 should make stripped down cars and force the American public to buy them and no more 5 year loans. But I know that's not going to work. In an ideal world it would work. But that's not how big fat Americans want it.

OK. I can see your point of view. The truth has come out. "the sooner the unions are broken, the sooner Detroit can start being competitive again." I guess I disagree with that statement more than anything. I think you are in dreamland. It's the downward pressure on wages that has gotten us in this mess. People have been living on credit cards because they don't have the wages to pay for anything and breaking unions will only make it worse. I understand your stance that if the Big 3 had better cost control they could make a better products and people would then be willing to buy their cars and trucks. That's true and I understand the point. It's a good point. But my point is a better point. My point is how can the Big 3 get customers when those customers make a Walmart wage. Walmart wages can't buy anything. And that's what you seem to be missing. Downward pressure on wages is NEVER a good thing. If you want cost control I'm all for that. I'm willing to try it your way. I say the guys can take a $5 to $10 dollar an hour pay cut. However, you can get that cost control in another way. And that way is a buyout. A buyout just like they do in sports. Like when a player gets hurt. Sometimes, teams will have an "injury settlement" and that's fair for both sides. Why not do that with the UAW. Even if it takes government money. Then we can do it your way with the Big 3. And the Big 3 will fail because the general population doesn't have the wages to support 40K cars. But at least we can say they made better cars. Actually that's dumb too. Too me they need to make more stripped down cars. Cars with no radio, no nothing and force the consumer to make better choices that match their income levels. No longer do we need a "house on wheels". Get rid of 5 year loans. Get rid of all the extras that drive the price of a car way beyond the means of most Americans. I have never in my life bought a new car. I haven't had a car loan in 20 years. I did put cars on credit cards though.

You don't understand what a business partnership means? The dealerships were partnerships with the BIG 3 and now they have to go away suddenly with no compensation. The dealership group I worked for will make it on their own. They never made "bad business decisions" and they have tons of money. However, based on principle, it's only fair to have some sort of buyout. I can understand that things are in dire straits but who got us here. Last night I saw that credit card companies are going to raise the interest rates of their best customers. They had a guy on the TV who said he went from paying 9% to 19% interest on his credit cards. He has perfect credit. What do you think of that? Tough crap for him right?

If you can't see how WALL STREET has screwed the entire economic system then you are willfully stupid. As late as 2001 the big three were booking record profits. They were making money hand over fist. They did EVERYTHING right. And I mean EVERYTHING. The american consumer wanted big SUVs. The BIG THREE DID NOT hold a gun to anyones head and make them buy them. YOU the american consumer wanted to buy them. Bling! Bling! After OJ killed Nicole, SUVs started flying off the lots. Because OJ drove a Ford Bronco and Nicole drove a Jeep. Free pub man! Then suddenly, gas prices went to $4 dollars a gallon, because WALL STREET drove the price up with speculation and all of a sudden it's the big three's fault that we don't have small cars. Then, suddenly, gas prices drop because CHINA has decided to go back to riding bikes (YEA RIGHT!). And the American consumer will return to driving big rigs . . . and all will be right with the world. Get a clue!

So basically tons of businesses (car dealerships) all over the country are being wiped out because of Wall Street. I did a google of "dealership closing" not too long ago and some dealers were happy, while others were sad because they spent their whole life selling cars and building their businesses. Those people built their businesses and they wanted to pass them along to their children. Now it's never going to happen. I don't think banks are going to give these people money to go independent. Whatever happened to loyalty in this country. This actually was going to happen anyway, but I do believe after doing business for 30 some odd years (in some cases) these business people deserve some sort of compensation.

The union is doing the right thing. They are waiting for the last possible moment before they act. They are waiting for TARP to kick in if they don't get bailout money. Actually, the union and the White House have been together on this and that's a good thing. The union is right to buy some time. All three CEOs and the union chief went to Washington to see if they could get bailout money. There's no reason to cave in to these southern Senators because they want to union bust. I don't think the union should give away the benefits that the older retired people get. People complain about legacy costs, wait until you get old and don't tell me about 401K's saving the day. They won't. And where has the talk about buyouts gone? They worked. The UAW people took them. Why not offer them now? It seems to me to be the fair way to go. $150K and out the door to both former and current employees. It seems it worked once, why not again?