bluv

I'll agree that JP needs better pocket awareness but yesterday all the pressure came from inside out and when that happens there is nowhere for a QB to hide! I also agree that befor last game people were a little too harsh on the O-line for they expect the 91 Hogs and for a QB to never get touched. But at least in the first few games besides a few breakdowns and missed blitz pickups JP at least had time to setup. Yesterday we strted to look like the Cardinarls line! Hopefully Pennington can get better with a few games and CV can go to a retirement home! I think, I know it is only one game but we might have have a winning cobo on the leftside so hopefully we can address other areas on the team in the offseason.

There is a problem with your logic... if we sit JP and draft a QB next year we will be stuck paying 2 young QB's 1st round money. That pick will take away from adressing other needs on offense in the draft and we will have cap issues and won't be able to add quality free agents. And if this guy doesn't come in and be a game changer then we will be sst back 4-5 years! And just our luck, this young QB gets hurt, JP steps in, pulls a Drew Brees and plays well as we hoped he could all along and then becomes a free agent and signs with another team and we are stucked with an unproven QB! There are a lot of what if scenarios but I'd rather give JP the next year or 2 before I give up on him because regardless how you look at it we are married to him for 2 more years!

To me yesterday was the worse the O-line has looked all season from a pass rush standpoint as all the pressuer was up the middle and it was consistent. Now if we had a quick passing attack combined with the succesfull running game we could have been more successful as he could have had maybe 200 yards passing. As a matter of fact if you throw in the 20-30 yard drop by Royal and if he had an extra second to step into the throw he made to EVans tht was swatted away he would have came close to tht number. I don't know if the QB would have mattered as much as the playcalling and blocking in yesterday' game. Maybea McNabb type who is mobile and used can improvise but I mean if they are getting to the QB up the middle witout much blitzing then theire isn't much that can be done from that regard. But a good offensive coordinator would notice this and modify his game plan. I mean Favre had about as much time in the pocket as JP had but there were also more quick hitting pass plays called as well as quick passes over the middle to backs and TE's. Also, once the Packers noticed that there zone blocking running scheme was getting eating up by our qyuick penetrating D they swtch to more smash mouth runs in the second half which yielded more success.

Yesterday he couldn't slide up in the pocket becuase most of the pressure came up the middle (Harris 3 sacks) and for that reason I think the pass protection look worse yesterday than before as he hardly had time to setup. The run blocking looked much better though. Back to the JP topic though: a young QB needs more than 16 games to be fully evaluated; especially playing on a team with unproven WR, no pass threats at TE and RB, and no offensive identity. JP is far from exonerated as he does tend to hold onto the ball and lock onto one receiver. But for those with a half full outlook will note that when he does make up his mind to throw the ball and is able to step up in a pocket he is much more accurate than last year when he would miss wide open receivers when he would rush throws. He has shown the abilty to make all throws. Another positive is that he doesn't throw a lot of int's; even last year. Fumbling has been a problem as of late but that has come from being blsted blindsided. I say that after 16 games, based on the the history of this league he is pretty much on the same track as most other QB's who have played this game and he has shown some qualities that you just can't teach. But in this era of free agency and quick turn around nobody has any patience in developing young QB's. I mean why pay a 1st round QB 1st round money and give up on him after 16 starts? Some will point to how quick Rivers and Romo caught on but the last time I checked they have sat for the past 3-4 years under the same offensive system with proven offensive stars at the skilled positions. We have neither the proven skilled positions or system!

Calvin Johson would come to mind. Anyway, the Pats didn't have big WR and they found a way to lead the league in passing last season. I know some will say they have Brady but I'll say they have better gameplanning as well!

I have asked this question from day one! And one fact I do know is that I have seen JP and the receivers do it effectively when given the chance! For the 1st 2/3 drives of most games we seem pretty effective with combining short passes and run plays. That is why we always seem to be quick starts and score fast; I think JP has led us to a TD on our 1st drive in 8 of 16 starts. But as the game goes on, the coaching staff wanting to be sophisticated never really try to build off anything they do establish or we get a stupid penalty, missed block, or cute playcall and we always end up in 3rd and long in shotgun. Look at the Vikings game or the last quarte of the Lions game. With the short passing game at least we had some sort of chemistry going. It seems like Fairchild just like calling plays and X's and O's rather than gameplanning and forcing the defense to adjust and we never establish anything offensively. Take yesterday; there had to be a way to take advantage of Green Bay shifting their defense to stop runs to the left; where are the playactions or rollouts to the right? they only called one and it resulted in a 9 yard pass to Price. And BTW, that was the only game in which we at least establish some form of offensive identity!

Peters did get beat a few times but luckily we had a few quick pass plays called that went to Shelton. I think that with a few more games on our left side we could have a poor man's Walter Jones/Hutschison LT/LG combo that the Seahawks had last year (optimism!)

I agree totally. If we draft a Qb and he doesn't come in a be an immediate difference maker (most aren't) then we will have to wait 2/3 years for him to get up to speed. Some young QB's have more immediate success if they have good/great players and established offense scheme to carry him (we don't). So I'd stick with JP for the rest of the year and probably next and pick up a more capable veteran just in case we do field an offensive team with the talent and scheme to succed and the only player holding us back is the QB. Face it: while an experience elite QB can come in and get better production out of the talent that we do have, not many other young QB's will behind our shabby blocking, unproven receiver core, and no offensive identity to speak off. There aren't very many Peyton Mannings, Tom Brady's, and Donovan McNabbs out there!

My words exactly!

every type throw with accuracy. Last year we know he had a gun but no touch whatsoever on short passes. Now he needs to learn how to better read defenses and be more consistent - things that takes time to develop; certainly more than 16 games on a BAD offensive team with shabby blocking and no scheme! He should definitely be given the rest of this year and possibly even next. We should bring in better O-lineman and more offensive weapons. A more capable veteran QB should also be brought in next year just in case he falters next year and is the only piece holding this team back. But to draft a QB such as Quinn will set this team back 3-4 more years if he doesn't come in and be a game changer like a young Marino for he can't play that Ben or Rivers role for they won't be on a team capable of carrying them! If we have to wait 2-3 years for them to develop then we might as well stay with JP.

If you read 2 of the first 3 threads were definitely more jabs at WM than given A-Train his praises. I have no problem with A-Train but I don't think he ran any harder than WM and I'm not a big WM fan either. If WM was asking for big dollars then I'd rather have A-Train but that hasn't happen yet. To me it's like dissing Thurman because Kennth Davis proved he was a good backup capable of playing just as good as TT on any given Sunday!

Exactly. It would be STUPID for the Bills to give up on JP and bring in other UNPROVEN CAREER BACKUP QB's that will probably only make a moderate difference to our team. I can see if this was a team that was expected to compete and had a lot of high priced veterans and was ready to win now and the onlt thing holding this team back was the QB. Or if JP was a 6th round pick. He is a 1st round pick that we moved up to pick and he has only started 16 games under 2 different regimes. And to top that off he has played behind shabby blocking with an average receiving corp and no offensive scheme whatsoever. The only way a QB change makes sense would be if the other QB's turn out to be franchise QB's and lead this team for at least the next 4-5 years. If not, then we will still need a QB and we will be paying JP to rot on the bench and still not fully knowing wheteher he can play. My biggest reason for having faith in JP is that he has shown this year that he can make every type throw with accuracy. Last year we know he had a gun but no touch whatsoever on short passes. Now he needs to learn how to better read defenses and be more consistent - things that takes time to develop; certainly more than 16 games on a BAD offensive team with no scheme!

It's a difference between being sucking and just not being an All-Pro. WM might not be the best back in the league but he desrves far more credit than he gets. The same with guys like Schoebel, Evans and Clemens! I mean Gandy was far from being a franchise LT but for being a short gauge option he played better than some gave him credit for the past year and a half and he looked pretty good at LG yesterday. And even JP deserves some slack being a young QB playing with a team that has poor blocking and no offensive identity whatsoever!

I say that should complete the reshuffle and go with either Preston or Merz at RG if Reyes isn't healthy. If CV is going to suck and play like a rookie then you might as well go with one!

Who was that who predicted the WM bashers would come out in droves? Come on; these same WM bashers are probably the same ones who ran Travis out of town as well. Fans on this board are so critical and are quick to throw punches or pull plugs. I mean look just look at the talk the past 2,3 weeks: • We want our 1st rd QB who has 16 starts pulled for a career backup. • Schoebel is overrated and just get coverage sacks • Spikes is declared washed up 2 games back after coming of major Achilles injury plus hamstring pull. • Lee Evans can’t make it as a number one WR; we should have kept Moulds • Nate is garbage. • Both of our young safeties aren't all pro's We are suppose to defend our good players to an extent and let other fans do the bashing. I'll bet the Pats fan are as quick to label Bruschii as being washed up!

Spikes is playing that Posey role in which he doesn't make many spectacular plays but since he is guarding the TE a lot and few passes are thrown his way and he is not asked to blitz he will make few game changing plays. The only play he really made was when he almost intercepted a Favre pass to the FB.

Run blocking was better but pass protection took a step back. Hopefully they will gel. Even though a few times a game we will havea pass protection breakdown and JP would get blindsided, today he was constantly under pressure not even having time to setup!

That's part of the problem: none of those plays are being called EXCEPT in the frist 2-3 drives of our games. The rest of the game it is run, run, penalty then it is put JP in shotgun to be a sitting duck on 3rd down!

Where are the shorter quicker type passes; one can say that JP is not pulling the trigger on those but I don't see any WR running those routes. And we never pass over the middle!

You see what happens when you establish nothing in the 1st half. It happens every game: the 1st 2-3 drives we at least have some life and then after that nothing.

You see where bad gameplanning comes into play; we were running the ball good and completing a few good short passes. All of a sudden, 1st and 10 we do a shotgun handoff?

NO DOUBT! Like I tell those loud mouth fans who are really just bandwagon fans and don't actually follow or know the game: You are not a real fan of the game if you can afford it and can install it but don't have the Sunday ticket!

Exactly! The only game in which Levy show wasn't on was against the Lions; at least they showed the Lions pre-game. The Cardinals; WTF!!

I'll agree to an extent. Half of our sacks have been the result of JP holding the ball to long waiting for plays to develop. While they are far from an elite blocking group I'll say we are way better than the Cardinals and Raiders up front and about equal to the Pats upfront. The biggest difference between the Pats and Bills is one of course having an experience QB in Brady vs basically a rookie QB who has played under 2 different systems. The other is that the Pats are so much better at gameplanning, scheming, and putting their players in position to make plays. Our playcalling is OK at times but our gameplanning and adjustments suck big time! This is had made the O-line and our skilled players look worse than they really are for their is no chemistry or offensive identity whatsoever besides running WM constantly up the middle for no gain!

Wouldn't Calvin Thompson of Georgia Tech look good in a Buffalo Bills uniform next year?