BuffaloRebound

Too many unknowns to put together for that kind of analysis to be worth anything. A stadium adds close to $1billion to the cost of the Bills. In this economic environment, no one is getting any govt money to re-locate a football team. $1billion even at 5% is an extra $65m a year in expenses over 30 years. At 8%, its close to $90m per year. I guess someone would have move somewhere where they could make more than $65-90m per year than in Buffalo. The Bills had $206m in revenues last year according to Forbes. New England, Washington, and Dallas, and now the 2 New Yorks look like the only teams that could make more than $65m per year more than the Bills. Philly, who has a relatively new stadium, only made $30m more than the Bills in revenues. In this economy, I think it is a hard sell realistically finding a city that could make more than $65m more than the Bills. But all it takes is one crazy rich guy to think he can do it in LA or somewhere else.

How can anyone claim that the Toronto thing was anything other than a money grab without knowing how much money Ralph makes? It would be a different situation if Ralph ever made it known that he would like to keep the Bills in Buffalo after he's gone and potential buyers need him to access to Toronto to make that happen. I would accept the Toronto situation more if a new owner who paid $800m for the the franchise did it, not from a guy who paid $50,000 for it. Wilson gets a check from the NFL that basically pays for the salary cap limit and spends significantly less than that on players. He doesn't spend on coaches or front office. He essentially pays nothing to play at the stadium built by taxpayers and named after him. Without access to the numbers, it is probably safe to assume any money he gets from tickets, parking, concessions, and luxury boxes is pure profit, estimated at $5-6m per home game. Toronto simply increases that number. I think the problem for Ralph is he's been an owner for 50 years and is bitter that a new batch of owners like Jones and Snyder make more profits than him. So he uses the the poor Buffalo economy to extract more revenue sharing from the NFL and scheme up the Toronto thing. This is not about viability in Buffalo, it is about trying to close the profit gap with Dallas, Washington, and the New Yorks. The problem is there are only a handful of those markets, and Toronto and LA are the only ones without teams. And LA isn't building someone a stadium with the mess California is in and has already seen 2 teams leave, and Toronto has political barriers. If the Bills get put up on the market when Ralph is no longer here, I think people might be surprised to see how attractive keeping the Bills in Buffalo will be with a free stadium, a rabid fanbase, and rich NFL revenue sharing especially in this economic environment.

Bingo. Ralph only thinks with his wallet. It's not like the coaches and front office aren't the ones picking the players. I think it's BS that everyone knows how much the players and coaches are making, but Ralph's profits are kept under lock and key despite getting state and local incentives to play here. He's gotta be pocketing $40m+ with the extra Toronto revenue. Until the majority of the Bills fanbase overcome their fears of the team moving, Ralph will continue his fleecing. With this economy and Rogers kicking the can, the odds of Buffalo moving have never been lower in the last 15 years.

Not where it counts. Pennington seems to be a favorite whipping boy, but in a dome or warm weather team he has adequate arm strength, and has led his team to the playoffs more than once. In a league dominated by poor QB-play, Pennington playing in Miami is arguably a top 10 QB.

Keeping Losman this year as the 2nd stringer didn't seem like a big deal to many, but is the epitome of why this is a losing organization. Instead of getting a veteran back-up who could help Edwards in his 2nd year and step in if need be and lead the team, they keep a mal-content who has proven he doesn't have what it takes to save a few bucks because he's in the last year of his rookie contract. In defense of Losman, you can't expect a former 1st round pick who was beaten out by a rookie to suddenly accept a back-up role and be a mentor.

A coach who will tell Ralph to keep his mouth shut and his hand ready to sign some checks. Does Bobby Knight know anything about football?

I don't believe it's as simple as saying Bills players don't care about winning. I just think mediocrity has seeped into this organization at all levels. Great organizations take pride in every detail with winning a Super Bowl always being the end goal. Meanwhile, Ralph is busy giving up a home game to make an extra $4-5m per year. Then it just feeds on itself having to over-pay free agents to come here with a sort of self-selection of players who had to be over-paid to come here. It desperately calls for a Coughlin-like coach to start kicking some a$$ and chase the losers out of town.

The NFL does not allow corporate ownership. I am not saying Toronto still couldn't put an ownership group together, but you basically need at least one billionaire as part of that group. Do Rogers' heirs have the same passion to bring the NFL to Canada effectively breaking up the CFL? Rogers passing cannot be good for Toronto's chances of landing the Bills.

It means it is one less option for Ralph to move the team. The fanbase has never had more leverage in the last 15 years to demand Ralph start spending money to put a winner on the field.

A demanding fanbase is part of the equation that determines the success of a team. If the majority of fans accept 7-9 or 8-8 every year, Ralph will be plenty willing to pocket $30-40m per year and oblige the fanbase with mediocrity.

I think his arm strength is an issue in Buffalo. I like everything else about his game, but he struggles once it gets windy and cold. It doesn't help that he has no safety valve in the middle of the field and most of the Bills pass plays are to smallish WR's to the sideline.

Until Ralph is out of the equation, we somehow need to get a coach who will challenge Ralph and the front office to go get the players necessary to win. Jauron was just happy to get another head coaching gig.

Isn't it on the coaches/front office if they put players on the field who don't play with emotion, intensity and attitude?

Wilson has successfully scared most of the fanbase into being happy that they just have a team. It gives him the freedom to run the team however he wants with minimal criticism.

Agreed. And in this economy, Wilson's leverage to move the team has never been lower. The only viable place right now is Toronto and there would be huge political hurdles to overcome. No other city without a team has a stadium. So you're talking close to $2 billion that someone will have to come up with.

I'd take Schottenheimer in a minute, but he's not coming here. I have a better chance of becoming the Bills coach than Cowher ever coming here. With Ralph as owner, we are not getting any experienced coach who has won.

Why would any respectable coach come here? Ralph is a loser. The only chance is to strike gold with a young up-and-comer.

Jauron needs to go, but nothing will change as long as Wilson is the owner. Wilson is the ultimate loser.

We will never be a serious contender until we get a pass rush. I find amazement in the Giants losing Strahan and Umenyiora and still having an excellent pass rush. There's gotta be someone on that d-line who they won't be able to re-sign or who they'll trade when Umenyiora comes back next year. Our defensive ends have no quickness. Kelsay is alright as a 4th defensive end. 1st round pick at DE who can contribute immediately (trade up if need be) is a must and add another in free agency.

In this economy, the number of people willing to pay $700-800m for a team plus a relocation fee plus another $1b for a new stadium has to be dwindling. A move to Toronto is probably the only legitimate chance of the Bills leaving Buffalo in this economic environment.

Well put. The Jets, Patriots, and Dolphins are playing for keeps. Ralph's focus is more about maximizing market value. I would love to see a comparison of what teams pay for their coaches and front office. I would be willing to bet the Bills are in the bottom 3 if not the very bottom.

Could not agree more about the DE's. It is the #1 reason we get no turnovers. You might as well put 300 pounders on the edge to stop the run. On top of that, there were at least 2 times where Kelsay and Denney completely over-ran the play and let Quinn break contain for big yardage. It is amazing that the Giants lost a Hall of Famer in Strahan and one of the best pass rushers in the League in Umenyiora, and they still have DE's who can get to the Qb.

Coaching is important, but so is every man on the 53 man roster. You are only as good as your weakest link. We have zero pass rushers on the roster. All our safeties outside Whitner are suspect. Ellison is way too soft. Losman should have been cut and a viable back-up Qb should have been brought in. We have no fullback. Another veteran WR should have been brought in. Parcells, Belichik, Coughlin would cut so many guys off this roster the day they took over. One good thing Donahoe did was bring in quality veteran depth. That was probably the only good thing he did.

Jauron is what he always has been. A conservative coach that tries to keep an even-keel. The problems have always started with Ralph. Too many other concerns outside of winning. That leads to too many over-paid losers. Parcells might be an a-hole, but his mentality is needed in this organization. I just fear that guys like Whitner who seem to be bothered by losing begin to accept that this is a losing organization and collecting millions a year isn't a bad trade-off.

The Browns only rushed 3 a majority of the time. It almost reminded me of Belichik and the Jets against Flutie. The few passes that he completed downfield were thread the needle. Dump-offs and running the ball were the way to go. On a positive note, I thought we played well from the 2nd quarter on. Huge plays from special teams, offense moved the ball methodically, and defense was stout except for the long run. That's the formula for this team. Not Trenting forcing the ball downfield.