SectionC3

I think Lindell and Moorman stepped in the direction of Jauron to determine whether Jauron wanted to attempt the field goal. I do hear the point that if the 25 yard line is the absolute furthest field position from which a field goal would be attempted, there shouldn't have been a question whether to attempt the field goal when the ball was spotted at the 28. I suppose the question has to be asked, but it probably would have been better served to get Lindell's opinion as to the viability of a 46 yard kick before third down, or at least immediately after the end of the third down play, so that the confusion, which was the real problem with the fourth down, didn't ensue

No, I'm not. Today I sat, depending on one's viewpoint with the curviture of the stadium, between the goal line and the five yard line at that end of the stadium on the bills' sideline and was approximately 15 rows up. the wind wasn't as stiff as it had been at certain points in the game, but was blowing enough that it would have impacted the kick. Don't judge the wind only by the flags on top of the goalposts - there are plenty of times where those flags are relatively still and the "helmet" flags, as well as the US flags outside the stadium are stiff. This was one of those days. (For what it's worth, the Bills' color analyst agreed that the kick was unmakeable.) What is amusing about this debate is that similar conditions have existed at the stadium for the past four or so games. It's no secret that the wind has been particularly troublesome in that endzone this year, and that the line of demarcation for field goal range is roughly the 25 yard stripe. As an aside, too, one thing people haven't made too much of yet is the long-snapping today. I couldn't see a few snaps closer to the tunnel end zone, but I don't know that there was one good snap on either side today. Hentrich made a few outstanding holds on some of the Titans' kicks, and a pretty good grab on one of the punts that he ended up banging out of bounds for a 20 yard-ish change of field position. I'm not saying that the conditions precluded taking a whack at the kick for reasons pertaining to the snap, but the snap and hold were not "gimmies" in that situation. As a further aside, fans who sit in this end might remember these two occurrences: First, there was a game this year where the wind actually knocked that crossbar out of alignment and required the grounds crew to bring a stepladder and a level out to fix it after the first quarter. I've been going to games for a long time and had never seen anything like that. I guess, by way of example, that goes to show how unpredictable that end zone is. Second, there was a similar kick to that of Bironas (sp?) this year where the ball basically died over the crossbar and looked like it was almost blew back out. I can't remember the game - it obvioulsy wasn't Miami and was not Jacksonville - but that kick, too, was from slightly over 40 yards.

Right on. I got a kick out of the guy who used "so called expert" and "ton of distance" in this thread. Nobody here is saying anything like "Vince Young really killed us on the misdirections because the ends didn't rush straight up the field and the spy [Fletcher] was too slow to keep up with Young." Rather, people (like me) who were at the game are commenting on a simple, observable fact: the cigar-shaped, leather ball used by Rian Lindell and many other participants in the contest between the Bills and the Titans did not pass through the goalposts at a position above the crossbar at the end of the stadium closest to the scoreboard when kicked in that direction today. In fact, we are applying a simple syllogism: Neither Lindell nor the Titans' kicker made field goals exceeding 43 yards to the scoreboard end of the stadium during warm-ups. The field goal that was not attempted would have exceeded 43 yards. Therefore, Lindell was not likely to make the subject field goal. Obviously, the syllogism assumes that the conditions were the same during warm-ups and at the time of the non-field goal. As one of the "so called expert(s)," I can state that the breeze was stiff at the time od the non-kick. I submit, too, that the players and coaches who work at the facility every day know a great deal more than the out-of-towners who hate the fourth down call, and even the season-ticket holders who sit at that end of the stadium. Once again, this is a stupid thread. The proper call was made.

The flags at the top of the stadium look a lot different than the flags on the goalposts. What you see on top of the goalposts is not indicative of what the conditions are like even a few feet above that level.

This thread is moronic. Having sat at that end of the field for most of the games this year and for the better part of the last 20 years, I can say with ease that there is NO WAY Lindell was going to make that kick. Nobody here has any standing to question the call to go for the first down unless they were in the stadium to observe warm-ups and the four minutes in which the kickers and punters tested the wind before the second half began. Any kick beyond 43 yards was highly unliklely to succeed. The kick that the Titans made into that end of the stadium was probably 42 yards in length and might have been good from about 43, but no more than that. The ball hits a wall of wind and literally stops. As to the point about the "game tape" and the wind being more serene at that point in the game than it had been earlier . . . I don't think that statement is accurate. The wind did shift for a brief period early in the fourth quarter, but it was stiff at the time that Jauron chose not to attempt the field goal. There is no second-guessing this decsion. Unless you were there, you can't understand the wind. Take it to the bank: there is no way Lindell would have made that kick.

It's the same thing as if the punt traveled, untouched, 65 yards and was touched, but not captured, by a Kansas City player. KC touched the ball on its side of the line of scrimmage, but did not control the ball. As it sat on the ground, a SD recovered what was a fumble. SD ball.

Few realize that there are people, and a significant number of people at that, across the border in Canada. While the Buffalo Metro Area might stop at the Niagara River, there are a significant number of bodies between Rochester and Hamilton that probably makes this one of the larger markets in North America. This goes back about 15 years, but a local readio station did a study and found that Buffalo + Niagara Falls + Hamilton would constitute one of the top-15 markets in the U.S.

"Tough" guys play through pain. "Not tough" guys limp off of the field. Travis may be tough, but the description of him "high character" is patently absurd for so many reasons that need no recitation here. Good football player, but not a guy I'd want around a minor daughter.

It's not so much that it's difficult to use the public thoroughfares to leave the stadium after the game, it's getting from the parking lot to Southwestern or Big Tree that's the problem. It's not even the design of the lots so much as it is the volume of patrons wandering in every conceivable direction. I was one of the few who left early yesterday, and I second the sentiment that folks from Rochester or Ontario leave a few minutes ahead of time to get a jump on the traffic and cut into what is otherwise a very long ride home.

The fake was cr*p call. You mean to tell me that you have better odds of picking up 3 yards running a Mularkey special than you do with your offense? Even if you're afraid to throw the ball there, it's better to roll the dice with the run, particularly inasmuch as Willis averaged 5-ish yards a carry today. Same thing goes for the Mularkey-esque call on the goal line. Two downs to pick up five feet and we run that bogus boot and lose 8 yards. Unbelievable. I really like the new coaching staff; there's a sense of maturity, accountability and reason around here for the first time in years. That staff, though, did not have a great game today.

20 to 390 in Avon is much further than 20 to 63 to 390 in Geneseo. Tried it that way.

Is Basher still running the IB?

I live less than 10 minutes from the Stadium in West Seneca and went to college at Geneseo. If you want the quickest way to the 390 out there from the Ralph, try this: Rt 20 E (Southwestern Blvd) out of the Stadium Turn L onto Rt 277 (Union Rd) in OP Head N on 277 (Union) until you reach Clinton Street (Rt 354) in West Seneca. Approx 7 minutes. R on Clinton (Rt 354). Continue for approx 15 minutes into Elma L on Schwartz Road. I think there is a church on the far right corner of this intersection. Check it out on Google and you'll see there are a lot of roads you can take N from Clinton to Rt 20. I used to take Schwartz because it was recently repaved at that time. R on Rt 20 from Schwartz. There might not be a sign indicating that it's Rt 20, but it's the busy road you hit after being on Schwartz for a few minutes. Take Rt. 20 out to 63. R on 63, continue through to Geneseo. You'll hit 20A eventually. Continue on 63 S until you hit the 390. I used to come back to from Geneseo on 20, 20A, Clinton St., the thruway, etc. This is the best way.

This is a good point. Let's think about this logically for a minute or two. The teams most likely to be mentioned in any relocation conversation are the Saints, the Bills and the Jaguars. For reasons that require no review, New Orleans is the logical and most likely candidate to fill the Los Angeles void. Moreover, Buffalo has a couple of things going for it that may not yet have been mentioned: 1. Market size. Granted, Canadian citizens have no bearing on US television market rankings. However, Buffalo is strategically located within an hour and a half drive of the greater Toronto area (Canadians, help me out, population of 4 million plus?) and is well within reach of the more affluent areas of Rochester. Any new stadium should not be located in Batavia; rather, that facility should be positioned to provide greater accessibliity for residents of the Horseshoe and of the Flower City. Neither New Orleans nor Jacksonville can draw from that sort of population base. 2. Eliot Spitzer. Will he be a good governor? Time will tell. His runaway numbers, have, however, discouraged a certain Rochester billionaire from spending $100 million of his personal funds on political activities this spring and summer. One wonders if those funds could serve BTG well elsewhere . . . .

Maybe somebody could help me out with this: I read the Web site very quickly and noticed that one of the components of the plan called for "the players," namely a wet-behind-the-ears insurance agent and two other unidentified parties, to control 15% of the stock of the proposed corporation. Given that the proposed IPO calls for 10 million shares to be issued at a price of $100 per share, that indicates that either (1) these guys have, collectively, a cool $150 million stashed in the freezer; or (2) the above-quoted numbers are a bit askew and they somehow expect to control 15% of a billion dollar corporation in exchange for proposing this idea. The idea of a community-owned team, or at least a team controlled by a corporation funded largely by non-voting stockholders is interesting. This idea, however, is a pipe dream (and that's putting it politely). One more tip for the players: Unless you're worried about potential criminal liability, EC District Attorney Frank Clark probably has no interest in this scheme.

As absurd as this sounds, there is at least a small possibility that this info is legit. Let me qualify by saying that WGR is likely guessing on this one (similar to the Flutie situation), BUT (1) they did pull the "pilot" line from the story (possibly to protect the source?); (2) their Bills sources have, in the past, been secretaries or relatives of players or those connected to the organization; and (3) there is a slight chance that Cap'n Bob Masse might have been the charter pilot and passed the info to one of the few competent people at the station (this is not a joke).

Don't take this the wrong way, but you have to get there to lose the games. The plethora of openings coupled with our frugal owner means we're not likely to get a coach with better credentials than Schottenheimer.

I hate to be the guy to rain on the parade, but Marv's statement doesn't necessarily imply anything. Taken at face value, he said 2 of the 32 teams in the NFL have contacted him re: working in a football-related capacity. One of them is not the Bills. No comment was made as to whether the second team is or is not the Bills. All it means is that a team other than the Bills has contacted him about a possible return to the league. We're inferring that the second interested team is the Bills. Marv is a pretty shrewd guy. While his statement doesn't preclude the theory that the Bills have expressed interest in his services, he may well have chosen his words carefully to drum up this kind of interest and, for lack of a more artful way of putting it, incited the masses to talk about and perhaps clamor for his return.

The length of the ball accounts for the difference in field position on change in position. The back end of the ball on fourth down is the front end of the ball on first down.

Actually, the Weis move has made for good business. The Alamo Bowl or whatever mid-level bowl game the Irish have participated in over the last few seasons probably pays no more than $2 or $3 million; conversely, the BCS payoff is in the neighborhood of $10 million. On top of that, the TV deal with NBC is still viable and probably even more attractive.

Here's a few more: Found liable by preponderance of the evidence in a civil matter.

OJ deserves whatever verbal abuse or otherwise he gets. There is no distinction between OJ the person and OJ the player; both are double-murderers. I sat in section 130 on Sunday and couldn't observe the reaction because I was very close to the field, but the tenor of the response and craned necks was such that I thought people viewed the man as a sideshow but did not evince outward support. In my view, there is a big difference between an alcoholic who admits his faults and works to help others and a man who murders the mother of his children. At least now OJ can cross the dugout suites at the Ralph off as potential locations for the "real killer(s)."

I think there was a Houston MNF game back in the day that was also blacked out. Those days were a little before my time, though -