SectionC3

Neither is the fact that people shouldn’t be yanked off of the street without due process.

Gotta love those bunker boys. I heard Trump moved pretty fast to the bunker to get away from those snowflakes.

Speaking of hoaxes, I’m beginning to question your status as an intellectual standard bearer. If the best you have is, “He stood up at one point in January, and therefore it’s everyone else’s fault that he called it a hoax, tried to wish it away, did nothing to coordinate a national response, didn’t invoke the DPA to get PPE for struggling front-line workers, mocked those who wore masks, wasted time with hydroxychloroquine, TV ratings, and direct-to-lung Lysol treatments, and encouraged states to reopen before it was safe!,” then I guess we just agree to disagree. I demand better from my leadership. You apparently have much lower standards.

I think season tickets bite the dust today, too. FYI. It’s too bad.

Either way we have to compete there. Make trump play defense and waste money there.

Kind of like those freedoms in Portland, right?

By your definition nobody, outside of a handful of highly immuno-suppressed people in a country of approximately 330 million, lives in a bubble. And to apply the "literal" definition of a bubble, as you apparently prefer, is absurd. Applying that logic, and by your definition, nobody would merit testing anywhere because they all (save for those handful of highly immuno-suppressed) choose not to live in a literal bubble. And, once again, you're still dead wrong on testing. The points that you either can't grasp or stubbornly refuse to grasp are that players are not responsible for policing fellow employees and, even if such self-policing was required in the absence of employer protection, it's not possible for one team to "self-police" another, distant team with which it will have no interaction save for perhaps engaging in a contact sport on one or two days this fall. The ideas that the Bills should self-police the 49ers before sharing sweat, blood, air, physical contact, and equipment (assuming the ball counts as equipment), and that such self-policing excuses ownership and management from taking the most stringent safety measures possible (namely, and obviously, daily COVID testing), are patently absurd. Finally, the "two-week" agreement is a couple of things. It's a stark illustration of the fact that you're wrong here. And it's also essentially a pause in the negotiations. At the conclusion of that two-week period the testing question will be revisited. Frankly I think the infection threshold that labor and management are talking about (5%) with respect to the continuation of testing is way too high considering that we don't know whether long-term effects of non-fatal COVID infection could end or inhibit a career (eg, through lung scarring or simply through lost opportunity in the 2020 season - check out the piece on Emily Regan in last Sunday's Buffalo News for insight on that issue). We shall see if that figure holds and what the PA does on daily testing moving forward. We also shall see if testing abates a bit during camp and ramps up again during the season when travel picks up.

You’re welcome. Your premise, ie, since no NFL a player literally lives in a bubble (an absurdity, to be sure, since bubbling is accomplished virtually, and in any event still unsupported by those pesky things called fact), NFL players do not need or deserved daily COVID testing, remains horribly flawed. Even the owners, who pay for this, acknowledge as much. And on what planet does a doctor think it’s a good idea to allow guys from different cities who cannot live isolation during the season (in which they must travel and overnight to games) to breathe, sweat, share a ball, and touch each other without daily testing? It’s just nuts. It’s a stupid business practice, it’s a stupid medical practice, and it’s a stupid labor practice.

Would you have preferred a literal bubble? Seems like it would have been a good talking point. Doc says we shouldn’t do daily testing because no NFL player literally lives in a bubble! Makes perfect sense.

And still nothing to support your bald assertion that not a single NFL player has lived in a virtual bubble since the pandemic began. one more reason athletes should demand universal daily testing.

The Electric Cow. I have heard stories of the Fisher Court version of that device.

Whether he wants to be or not, he’s also, you know, the leader. Perhaps he should also, you know, have lead by example instead of standing idly by as mask use became a political cleave. 00:0001:22 TRENDING: These People Are Nuts: Broward County Officials Now Require Citizens Wear Masks WITHIN THEIR OWN HOMES So, why are we ordered to wear masks? Symbolism. From the same article in NEJM: Advertisement - story continues below Another day, another nonsense post from alt-right ideologue Third n’ Whatever. Here’s the truth: ”“We are not defenseless against COVID-19,” said CDC Director Dr. Robert R. Redfield. “Cloth face coverings are one of the most powerful weapons we have to slow and stop the spread of the virus – particularly when used universally within a community setting. All Americans have a responsibility to protect themselves, their families, and their communities.” That nugget (uncomfortable only to the alt-wrong) comes from this July 14, 2020 CDC press release: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p0714-americans-to-wear-masks.html

States’ rights have nothing to do with federal “support[]” (my word) for mask use. Trump undermined the CDC until recently and refused to wear a mask. So it was good that the CDC had its act together. It’s bad that Trump didn’t and doesn’t. Our economy, our health, and our sense of American superiority have suffered because of it.

Well said. If you told me 10 years ago that we would have a pandemic that we largely could have stopped in its tracks by wearing masks in public and doing other simple things like regularly washing our hands, but stubbornly chose not to do it to the great detriment of our economy, our treasure, and our national health, I wouldn’t have believed it. But here we are.

Hoax. I’m not disingenuous, or partisan, or a hack. It’s also a hoax that I used the word “prevented.” In point of fact, doing “something” or “anything” about the pandemic is vastly different from preventing the pandemic. For example, perhaps the President could have advocated a simple, cheap safety precaution like wearing a mask at the outset of the pandemic. Instead, he and his alt-wrong followers, including you in your capacity as the intellectual standard bearer of the local chapter of that crowd, focused on silver bullet nonsense, such as buying millions of doses of an unproven drug (hydroxychloroquine) and speculating that the injection of a household cleaner (Lysol, if I recall correctly) would stymie the virus to the extent it was not actually a “hoax” and did not “magically disappear” by Easter, as was predicted. Now, in view of those failings, your approach apparently is to resort to misguided hyperbole (“you’re wrong because you said that Trump should have prevented the virus, even though you never actually said anything of the sort!”), blame the source of the virus (calling it the “Wuhan virus” or the “Chinese virus” means that it’s not Trump’s fault that it spread unabated for months while he munched on hydroxychloroquine and obsessed about the television ratings for his press conferences!), which apparently now is confirmed as a “non-hoax,” or perhaps an “alt-hoax,” instead of suggesting that perhaps our federal government should have done such things as simple as having supported the wearing of masks as a prophylactic device. I’m beginning to think that your self-styled status as the intellectual standard bearer of the alt-wrong community is just another, shall we say, hoax. Sad!

What about directing ire at the regime that tried to wish this “hoax” away instead of doing something about it? By your logic, the fact that the administration didn’t start the problem absolves it from responsibility for doing anything about it. I realize that you’re an alt-wronger, but that logic is absurd even for you.

What about the effect of the virus? What if it doesn’t kill, but simply maims? What if the maiming includes long-term cognitive difficulty, or reduced lung function? Is that acceptable?

Again, you said nobody was "bubbling." And since nearly nobody (save for perhaps a few people with extreme medical issues) literally lives within a "bubble," I assume that you applied a figurative, not literal, definition of the term. The NBA form of "bubbling" means social isolation and contact only with a defined group of like isolators. So how do you know that no NFL player is doing that? You don't. You made it up. And you've also backed off the "NFL players are responsible for policing each other, even from across a continent" absurdity. Which is good, since even the employer here recognized the asininity of that point.

1. You made a mistake in your first sentence. You should have said "groundless," "baseless," "entirely contrived," or something like that. 2. You don't know who is and who is not bubbling. You're just speculating. Or making it up. Guys with kids might not be out much. 3. You didn't say within teams earlier. And that's sort of the point. The Bills can police the Bills. Maybe. But they can't fire anyone who doesn't respect social and health norms. Only the employer can do that. And they also have to come into close contact with players on 12 other NFL teams this year, some of which may not self-police and some of which might have a bunch of knuckleheads who think that they're fine if they chew on some hydroxycloroquine each morning with their Flintstones vitamins. The only ones who can police the "other" teams are the owners. And how is "our" team or "my" team kept safe in this scenario? Daily testing. Employer-mandated, stringent safety measures. Nothing less.

again, you said NO players are bubbling. I pointed our that you have no factual basis for that statement and that you’re talking out of your fear. The burden isn’t on me to disprove your baseless assertion. and youre still wrong on policing. Let me know how a team in orchard park is supposed to self-police a team based in Santa Clara. It’s impossible. And absurd to suggest. It’s the job of the owners to provide daily testing and adequate safety measures.

I’m it the one who made the statement of fact. That was you. As in, no NFL player is living in a bubble. And, with respect, you’re totally wrong about the policing point. It’s not the job of the employee to police his fellow employee. It’s the employers responsibility. I don’t blame the players one bit for demanding daily testing and workplace protections. Neither should you.

1. You assumed, without basis in fact, that none of the players has lived in a bubble. I pointed that out. At this point there are probably about 2,500 players under contract, and I suspect that the odds are that at least one of them has practiced safe quarantining habits akin to bubble living. In any event, there is no reason to assume that none of them has lived that way for the purpose of protecting self/immediate family/loved one. 2. There is a difference between "can't" and "won't." The concern probably is greatest with respect to the players who "won't" abide by social distancing/masking/isolation rules, which, in the context of a contact sport that requires participation at least four days per week, threatens those who follow the "rules." To this end Lorenzo Alexander's point is a good one. The league should test every day. It's the only way to protect all players from the ones who decide to hit the bar or the beach on off night and come to work a few days before limited testing would be conducted.

How do you know that none of them has been living in a bubble? And unfortunately for some of them, they play a contact sport and might literally contact someone who has refused to live in the bubble. It's the factors beyond the control of the player that are at issue here. For that reason I completely agree with the players who support daily testing, not necessarily for themselves, but for the "other" players with whom they may come into contact.

Hoax. That’s you. And you’re the intellectual standard bearer of the alt wrong. Sad! Nobody, to my knowledge. But perhaps we can refocus from imaginary boogeymen to idiots who don’t support the idea of wearing masks to help reopen our economy. Like Brian Kemp. And Donald Trump.

BYU should put this on the front page of one of its brochures. Big surprise that a bunch of religious cultists would be part of a political cult.