SectionC3

Listen man, I come from a working class family and worked harder than most of you could conceive of on my way up. I did all of the stuff that nobody else wants to do. I'm not a "lefty" or a commie or a pedophile or anything that you guys like to call me. You caught the car with this one, and I'm just telling you that MAGA's economic agenda is a load of BS that's going to help the rich folks, cement an educational divide, and ultimately hurt the people who voted for it. I don't want any of that, but if that's what you want, you got it. I take no delight in it, but if you guys are sincere and serious about Stopping Socialism and all of the cuts you want to make to pay for these dumb ideas (tariffs and this flat tax stupidity, for instance), have at it. It's hard to have rage with the portfolio up huge the last few days. It's great for me, but I'm highly skeptical it's going to benefit most of the people who read this. I think we can agree that big money always wins in this country. Bezos pulled the WaPo endorsement because he smelled this coming. What's the new Amazon play as of today? Low cost essentials. Dollar store type of stuff. They're reaching into lower income demos, for sure, but it tells me they don't expect things to get markedly better for "middle" middle class and lower middle class America. You can keep on gloating, etc., and that's fine. You won the culture wars. Just take the economic piece for what it's worth.

The last words ring true. That's the economic point I'm making today. MAGA is the economic dog that caught the car, and this is not going to end well for most of its voters. I had some time to digest, and I'm sort of thrilled with the result. I hate much of the MAGA social agenda. The MAGA economic agenda is terrible for the middle class, and for the country as a whole (tariffs, flat tax, enormous debt are all stupid ideas). But I'm doing well personally, so the hell with it. Let's Stop Socialism and make the cuts to Medicaid and Medicare and see what happens.

Like I said, you got nothing. Just like the rest of them. So you're a Steve Forbes and trickle down guy with the flat tax? Terry Pegula (for example) pays the same tax rate as you. I'm all for it, for what it's worth, because it's good for me. But is it good for MAGA?

There is some truth to this. He is not a conservative by any measure, except when it comes to the abortion issue. The economic plan is sort of an old school Republican thing from the 80s, but he's also trying to implement tax cuts that are extremely broad and, typical of Republicans, tend to give the upper and investor classes a lot and the middle and lower classes only a little. The problem he's going to run into is that he won't cut spending. The gamble is huge economic growth and trickle down, but historically those things either don't work or don't cover the tax cuts. So some tough choices will have to be made relative to cuts, which will inevitably impact services on which MAGA voters rely. It's sort of hilarious that Republicans (the party of Dick Cheney and George W. Bush) are casting Democrats as the pro-war or non anti-war party. Comical, actually, since both Iraq wars were products of a Republican administration. There's a difference between supporting NATO (peace through strength)/supplying military aid to Ukraine/Israel and wandering into a pointless second Iraq war. Fixing foods isn't going to fix healthcare, much as the anti-vax movement isn't going to make people healthier. A lot of this stuff is a reflection of frustration and anger with the state of society, as you said, over the past 25 years. I get it - especially and including the senseless war issue and the economic struggles. I disagree strongly with the economic approach (tariffs and flat taxes are idiotic ideas if you're in the middle class) and the bluster (Stop Socialism and Stop the Steal are crocks if I've ever heard them), and unfortunately I think MAGA is in for a lot more of the same on the economic pain side of things. This--Trump--is not the guy or the plan to fix what ails them, and I see this election as more voting people out (Biden/Harris) who have presided over a difficult period than voting someone else in. (I'll add that the basic metrics of the economy are actually really, really good right now, and that I think a lot of the frustrations relative to sticky prices are due to the fact that Americans lack fiscal discipline and are too stretched out to absorb so much as a flat tire, let alone any kind of elasticity in pricing.). Maybe--and this is where I fall--we can have a return to normalcy where people can stop calling me a pedophile and a communist and evil as a moderate, union Democrat, I'll stop making fun of MAGA for being morons who aren't actually racists but who support things that, if you're brown, kind of look like they're racist, we can stop the forever wars, and we can have an economic agenda (think Bernie Sanders, who is actually popular with MAGA) that is not insular (tariffs), that targets tax cuts to the middle class, that restores early Reagan-era top marginal tax rates, and that helps grow education, and tech, and green, and small business for the next generation. We can also reduce, but not eliminate, some foreign aid. Put all that together and you frankly get a little bit of MAGA and a lot more of Democrat, and all of a sudden you're in business. It's an agenda that I frankly think most people would agree with.

That's capitalism for you! There's plenty of other jobs for her out there. Let's get to work on cutting Medicare and Medicaid next. And welfare. Enough of that. Get to work, MAGA.

Nothing hysterical about it. And nobody's worried about anything falling apart. I just want you and MAGA to do what you said you're going to do. You won the culture wars. Good for you. Now let's follow through on the economic piece of your agenda, too, which happens to be against your self interest. I think we can all agree that socialism should be stopped. So what are we cutting first?? You got nothing. You voted against something, but now you can't specifically say what you're for. Let's stop socialism and start cutting benefits. Or are we doing tariffs first. Or is it juicing the stock market (MAGA is not the investor class) by cutting taxes and running up the national debt. Which one comes first?

Nah. I’m a pretty happy guy. Especially because I’m having another huge day in the market. You voted against altruism. Go ask Elon for handout. But not until after we talk about cutting Medicare and Medicaid. Stop socialism, remember? That’s what you voted for. So let’s do it! While nothing meaningful changes for him. That’s the sad part. None of the MAGA on here can respond to anything contrary to their position in the merits. They got played, and it hurts to hear it.

Actually I feel myself getting richer and better by the minute. You, by contrast, have nothing to say on the merits, because you know I’m right. You got played. There’s a reason why the super rich folks are for trump. (The top ten made $64 billion yesterday.) Let’s see now whether it trickles done to you before all of the services you need get cut!

Truth, bro. You can insult, but you can't respond on the merits. Because the truth hurts and you know I'm right. Your obsession with guns and brown people got you played. And the people you hate are going to profit. Thank you, again!

You got nothing to say because the truth hurts and you know I'm right. How'd you do in the market yesterday? Probably not as well as me. Rich get richer. This is great. Please do. You said you would. Let's do it. Are you for those cuts, or not? It's what you voted for!

Largely because of their own spending habits and because of stupid government spending (free Trump bucks are huge part of this). Generally, Americans are way overextended. The gamble on Trump essentially is one of trickle down economics which, historically, doesn't work. Maybe the tax cuts make things a little easier for some to get by in the short term. But they aren't going to help these people get ahead. There's a difference. Ultimately nothing for them is going to change until they develop discipline and work ethic. Factory jobs aren't going to get them the lives they want without union benefits and protection. But that's not what they voted for. And, personally, I don't friggin care. Thank you to every single one of them. I made a ton of money yesterday, and I look forward to the tax cuts that inevitably will result in massive reduction of services that most of these MAGA voters need. The dog caught the car, and I'm getting more excited about it every minute. I am. Thanks again! Let me know how the non-union manual labor path works out for most of MAGA. And let's work together to start those Medicare, Medicaid, and social services cuts. In for a penny, in for a pound, right? While we're at it, let's trim welfare, too, which mostly benefits white MAGA folks.

You obviously haven't read a single thing I've written. Congratulations on your social victory. And thank you for promoting an economic agenda that is going to make me richer and lock the "Let's Go Brandon" into generations of menial work to buy a couple of guns, pay off the giant pickup truck they don't need, and watch their kids toil in the same crappy jobs that they have right now. You guys can post all of the memes and gloat all you want. But just about every one of you just got played. Thank you, again, on behalf of my wallet.

Then it's not a flat tax. OMG. This isn't that hard. But unfortunately for you, and fortunately for me, you voted for it. Start reading my posts this morning in other threads. The dog caught the car, dude. This is coming from a moderate, sensible, level-headed, generally kind Democrat. You won on the social issues. Congratulations. The economic plan that you voted for is phenomenal for people who are educated and who have money, and utterly awful for everyone else. But you know what? Guys like you got what they wanted. The Let's Go Brandon crowd unwittingly did me a huge favor and screwed up their own lives so they can rail against trannies and gun safety and whatever other social boogeyman they're scared of. In the meantime, I made--conservatively--more money yesterday in the market than most people who read this post will make in a year. And MAGA voters aren't getting a friggin penny of it. My kids won't spend their lives in factories making the stuff you guys don't want to import from China. You will. And so will your kids. In the meantime, let me know how all those Medicare and Medicaid cuts are going to hit. I bet not so well. But, you're MAGA and that is squarely your problem. Enjoy, and thanks again! Keep on reading my stuff and keep it coming! It took me a couple of days, but I just want to say thank you to MAGA for screwing things up for themselves and making it much, much better for my wallet! Just make sure that when you cut my lawn, you don't ask for a tip. Or when you bring me food in a restaurant, you're prepared not to get tipped because that's a gratuity and I don't see why I should pay tax on my income and you should not. The more I think about this, the better and better it gets.

Read my post in the other thread. The dog caught the car. I hope they win the House and do all of the stupid economic stuff they talk about. It's going to work out great for me and terribly for them. It will cement the educational and generational wealth divide in this country. Class mobility is going to be next to impossible without education (they don't have it) or the discipline of a superior work ethic (also lacking, as far as I can tell). They'll get their guns, and they'll deport some brown people, and then seal the border. And then guess what? They'll have to go to work in the factory making the stuff that we won't import from China anymore because of tariffs and that we don't have immigrants to manufacture and they'll lead miserable, crappy lives with no room to advance because they voted against the party of unions and labor protection. Their hope is that trickle down economics bails them out. But it won't. And maybe the old school Republicans get back to the stuff they've wanted to do for decades with respect to cutting Medicaid and Medicare. (Which, frankly, I'm now all for, since we're playing the MAGA/selfish game and I don't feel like subsidizing them anymore.) From a purely economic perspective, this whole thing is going to be great for the rich and educated, and brutal for the middle class and poor. They got played, and they don't even see it coming. Have at it, MAGA! (And hint - don't come looking to me for trickle down or handouts when the proverbial s hits the fan in a couple of years after the sugar high from all of the deficit spending wears off.)

EDIT - it's not a flat tax. It's what we have now. A progressive income tax that increases the rate on higher earnings. But guess what - you voted against that! Like I said, this is going to be great. I'm loving this. MAGA is going to get exactly what it wanted, and I'm going to profit. This thread is the perfect example. Andy asked a reasonable question about economic and other priorities, and nobody has a reasonable answer. The proverbial dog has caught the car, and it's great to say all of the things Trump said, but now it's time to get to work and pay for it. So flat tax away, help this "evil," moderate Democrat get richer, and get to work in that factory the rich guy is going to open here and pay you about $12/hour to make razors and pens and other crap currently produced by much cheaper labor in China. Don't forget, too, that Republicans are anti-union, so don't expect that hourly wage to rise commensurate with the inflation to follow from tariffs and domestic production of all of that disposable junk. And while we're at it, let's cut all of the services those MAGA need (Medicare, Medicaid, free civil lawyers for some low income, which I see in my profession all the time) so I can be richer. The more I think about it, the better and better this gets. I generally try to be nice and kind with my vote and my money, but under this new MAGA regime I'm going to be as selfish as the next guy. It's not going to trickle down from me. Totally agree. And, in the meantime, nothing will change for them. Can't wait. They're going to get exactly what they voted for. It's just not what they want.

All of those fat slobs who complain about immigrants can get off of welfare and government assistance and get to work in the factories making $12 an hour. Initially I was upset about Trump winning because he's a fool and bad for the country. But I'm getting more and more excited by the day to see MAGA get a taste of what it wanted. It's going go be great. I know so many MAGA who take and take and take from the taxpayers and I'm very eager to see what happens when we cut taxes, trickle down doesn't actually trickle down, and we have to cut the services they need and rely upon to pay for all of this. I'm going to do great. They're not. I actually hope that Republicans win the house so they can do or not do all of this economic nonsense. Let's take fluoride out of the water! I can pay for dental treatment. They largely can't. Not my problem, so long as they don't try to run it through Medicaid or Medicare (both of which should be cut, anyway, if we're playing the Republican/Conservative game). I'll make money, MAGA will have to actually get to work and earn their keep, and away we go. If we're going to go the selfish route (picking on brown people, trans, demonizing people who feel differently), let's go whole hog and do all of the truly conservative stuff Republicans have wanted to do for decades. OMG. This is why educated people get so frustrated with each other and MAGA feels like it's being talked down to. I'll try to be nice. If there's progression in the proposal, then it isn't a flat tax. Flat tax proposals by definition cannot address the concern that I have raised.

What's the cure? Tariffs? Command economy? Drilling more lawnmower oil? I'm surprised he didn't tell us during the two years in which he ran for this presidency. Kind of like Nixon's secret plan to end the war, perhaps. How does one stop Iran's nuclear program short of bombing it? And how do we end all wars globally without, like, intervening (which is something MAGA doesn't want to do)? Negotiating - with what leverage? I don't disagree with the first two. They just don't seem like they work together. But MAGA can figure that out.

All of the economic proposals sound great to me. Let's do them all and see what happens. They'll be great for me (investor class) but bad for the vast, vast majority of MAGA. You won't get any meaningful responses here because the economic approach on the whole is senseless. It's all a gamble on massive economic growth predicated upon massive tax cuts without concomitant spending cuts. We saw how it worked out the first time (big, big debt increase, for which there is a bill to be paid). It will be the same story this time. Equities will increase in price (good for me). Sugar high spike will be there (good for me). Domestic manufacturing might increase a bit, but we just don't have the labor force to support what Trump wants to do. And consumers will pay more for stuff, inflation will increase (because of tariffs, at first, and because of minimum wage differentials for domestically-manufactured disposable junk like razors, toothbrushes, etc.), national debt will explode, and right around year three someone is going to wake up and realize that there is a bill to be paid. In short, this is what happens when people who have done a lousy job managing their money (Trump included) start managing national finances. Then by definition it's not a flat tax. That's a progressive income tax, which we have now. But you voted for it, so flat tax away. Again, nothing of substance. Which is to be expected of you. Just anger and rage about your situation. Just pick something of substance instead of memes about people you don't like.

Both of the first two ideas (tariffs and flat tax) are terrible for the middle and lower classes. Absolutely awful. Why should Terry Pegula (for example) have the same tax rate on his top earnings as you? Apparently you're a trickle down guy. If you trust the establishment--rich folks--to give you their money, then go for it. I don't see it happening. As an aside, these tax cuts that MAGA is throwing around (tips, car loan deduction, undoing of their repeal of the SALT deduction, apparently now flat tax) sound great in principle. But they are in large part leading toward old school Republican ideas that are rotten for the middle class. Essentially MAGA is moving toward a consumption-tax society, that is, limited taxes on income and much larger taxes on things people consume. If you're on the same economic footing as Steve Forbes, who thought of the flat tax idea years go, then go for it. We'll see how it works out. Such a response is to be expected from you. What's your Day 1 MAGA priority? It's a fair question.

Zelenskyy certainly does now because his supply of aid is getting cut off. (Before anyone talks about free stuff, the weapons typically are older and in significant part are purchased.) Unfortunately the off ramp entails a good chunk of Ukraine becoming part of Russia. Even if the Russians don't do a bait and switch and go back in after regrouping and stockpiling, the message it sends to NATO allies (and democracies) in the Baltics and Poland is terrible. MAGA doesn't care about stuff like that because it doesn't directly affect them. For what it's worth, I agree that Europe should pay more toward the Ukraine issue, and that the US can't continue to be the world's piggybank and policeman. BUT there's a logic in the foreign involvement that includes others shooting at each other, rather than Americans, and influence over navigation and trade. Trump is probably going to cede the South China Sea to China. He's probably going to lose influence over Egypt and the Suez. Influence over Panama has been waning as it is. All of this stuff WILL affect the American consumer--that is, unless this tariff nonsense (e.g., higher prices for the American consumer to push manufacturing of disposable consumer items back to domestic territory to employ people who aren't actually here to make it) works. So we shall see. I personally believe his economic and strategic plans are foolish and bad for America. MAGA has the floor, however, and time will tell.

I can see we’re already back to the MAGA nonsense and Trump hasn’t even been inaugurated. I highly doubt that the grain farmers in Ukraine who seek self-determination and the freedom not to be overrun by another country are actually complicit in a national money laundering scheme. And, in any event, assuming Trump shares your view, that is precisely why Putin his happy with Trump’s win. Now he’s likely to have latitude to take care of that “money laundering” problem once and for all. Vance did say, on Trump’s behalf, that Trump plans to stay in NATO. But Trump says a lot of stuff that’s BS. (e.g., repeal and replace, Mexico will pay for the wall, father of IVF, etc.). Do you believe somebody with that distant of a relationship with the truth gets the benefit of the doubt? I don’t, especially given his attitude toward NATO during his first term.

Uhhh … unless I missed something MAGA doesn’t want to supply Ukraine with military aid that Ukraine uses to fight a war of survival against the invading Russians. So, yeah, Putin is happy with you. Oh, and don’t forget NATO. Putin doesn’t like NATO because it’s a check on his expansion into Eastern Europe. Trump doesn’t like NATO. So, again, Putin is happy.

From Russia? Really? Putin is thrilled with this.

Yeah he knocked it out of the park with health care reform the border wall and the handling of the pandemic. My beefs with him aren’t necessarily policy related. I don’t share his policies, but that’s not a problem. My issues are grounded in morals and integrity (he has none). And the dirty little secret is that he’s frankly not effective at governing. He just doesn’t get stuff done. Time will tell if that changes. He’s got his shot, and it’s MAGA’s turn to try it again.

Austerity is the perfect word. People can’t say no to themselves. They blame others but don’t want to do the work to fix it. Let’s see what MAGA does about that. The floor belongs to MAGA.