Gene Frenkle

You're kind of talking in circles. Unsubstantiated claims are completely worthless and only limited by imagination. Anyone can make up anything supernatural and there's no refuting it if it's not provable. If it's not provable then why believe in the fantasy?

Where do the supernatural claims come from and why should they be given consideration?

Good point, you got me there.

Is there an echo in here? If you can't prove or disprove supernatural with science or reason then why believe one supernatural claim over another or one religion over another? Your conclusion is to pick some arbitrary fantastical story and just go with that? It's completely irrational. The simplest explanation is the best explanation.

If you're going to invoke the spooky action of quantum theory, you should stay away from the "god doesn't throw dice quote", because according to quantum theory if there is a god he most certainly does throw dice. "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." - Albert Einstein

By most accounts, Einstein's insistence that god exists held back his science in his later years. That's simply the opinion of many historians and many of his peers and in no way diminishes any of his wonderful, ground-breaking accomplishments. At wost, it sent him down a dead-end path in his later years. Maybe another discovery or two if not for his hang-ups. Maybe not. However, while "smartest among us" did not know, his belief was in a god who started things in motion long, long ago. He did not believe in a personal god. He believed in a god who does not break the laws of Physics, who did not interfere in the Universe in any way and who does not answer prayers or even have anything at all to do with the day-to-day of you or I. He actively shielded his belief by stating that he did not think that any evidence of such a being would or could ever be found and that no test could either prove or disprove god's existence. It doesn't really matter what he believed. I just bring it up because a lot of people like to quote Einstein out of context to make him out to be some kind of proponent of organized religion, which he was not. Einstein, like everyone else could believe anything he wanted to of course. But I think you illustrate my point. Einstein was most likely unable to let go of hang-ups because they were so ingrained in his being. He was human after all. At some point in their lives, most thinking humans go through some sort of a crisis of faith in what they were brought up believing. As science advances there are fewer gaps in which god fits nicely. The fewer gaps you start with, the lesser god becomes and the more likely your crisis of faith will push you over the edge into disbelief. It seems to me that we may be approaching a tipping point here. More and more people are leaving the churches every year. In the end, one cannot prove or disprove the existence of anything supernatural, including god. Science has no language to deal with such things because such things can't be tested using the scientific method. So...any plea to the rationality of religion is illegitimate because religion is not a rational thing. So Jesus Christ coming again to judge the living and the dead, or Poseidon shoving his trident up your ass or even the Flying Spaghetti Monster showering the planet with meatballs all have just about the chance of happening. And all three are far, far, far, far, far less likely than 'none of the above'. So believe whatever the hell you want because it just doesn't matter.

I know you're being sarcastic, but in this case the numbers bear out. Note that "smarter" and "better grasp of life" are your words, not mine. It's not the older, more indoctrinated folks that are leaving the churches. Religious thinking, by definition, is magical thinking and is therefore less rational.

Factually incorrect. Intellectually dishonest. Logically ridiculous. Your belief system is under attack here, so it's understandable, if just a little bit sad. Even if you're given a pass on all of that and we assume that everything in your statement is accurate, it proves nothing. You're still left with just a crackpot theory that lots and lots of people buy into it. A younger, more rational generation is leaving organized religion in droves, partly because of the hypocrisy of these institutions, but mostly because science continues to explain away everything we needed religion for in the first place. Good riddance!

Should we call you Jesus or Moses?

Blah, blah, blah. No part of that rant says anything on topic, but no real suprise. When your beliefs are questioned and you have not a rational leg to stand on, just lash out at how mean and unfair the big bad Liberals are. What a joke.

I'm not talking about what happened to Germany as a result of its decision to try to conquer Europe and exterminate the Jews. That had everything to do with America's justifiable decision to enter a war based on good reason. The hypothetical is: what if Germany had been successful. Perhaps peace is brought to Europe because the hated Jews and everyone who opposed Germany were destroyed. This would be an obviously unjust, amoral set of actions leading to an acceptable geo-political outcome. Does the end justify the means here?

You think I'm so partisan that I would overlook my tax dollars going to fund this type of crap? I'm glad ACORN was de-funded. I know everyone associates ACORN with the Dems because, well, they have black people and they work in the inner cities and they registered voters in the inner city who voted Democratic in the last election. I also remember video of John McCain speaking at an ACORN function, so I know they at least receive support from both major parties. It's a government agency that is obviously corrupt and they were de-funded for it. Personally, I'm glad they were found out and I'd imagine that most people in this country, no matter which way they lean, are glad as well. Conservatives are treating this like a coup, which it is, but not just for Conservatives.

You got me all wrong.

It's a Richard Dawkins argument. You're atheistic or agnostic toward every other religion that exists today or has ever existed since the beginning of time. You find their claims preposterous and look at them with at least some contempt because you believe that they are completely false and made-up. You're 99.99% of the way there. The difference between you and I is that at some point I thought about it and decided to make leap past the final .01%. What are the chances that your parents' parents' parents' parents' parents, etc... picked the right religion? (assuming, of course, there is a right religion, which I personally don't)

"There is something to be said for loving even in the face of disappointment."

Believe it or not, you're actually an atheist, or at least an agnostic.

I couldn't be happier that this corruption was exposed. Nice work by those kids. I just don't get the whole self-righteous right wing gloat fest that is going on about it.

But does it have a twist ending?

Don't let the fact that ACORN was just de-funded get in the way of your rant.

So it's kind of like The Happening? Does the ending have some crazy twist? endtimes.org might be one of the best domain names ever!

Right, ex-Presidents are never given the time of day when they have something to say. No matter what you think of any of them, an ex-President's opinion is more newsworthy than most of the crap that passes for news these days.

How many times did Bush veto a bill that would expand federal funding of stem cell research despite the overwhelming will of the people with regard to this issue? Are you attempting to hold Bush up as a symbol of scientific progress? He was on a mission from god, and nobody was going to tell him otherwise. And what exactly happened to those embryos that weren't used for research? Oh, that's right, they were destroyed.

Most Christians haven't read the Bible, which reinforces their belief that the Bible talks about a "Rapture".

Personally, I'm looking forward to the opener on Sunday, but to each his own...

I'll just have to go ahead disagree with you on that one, chief. It's a slippery, slippery slope. Is genocide justified if it brings peace to a region because there is no longer anyone to fight with when it's all over? Were Josef Mengele's experiments on humans worthwhile because they likely furthered medical knowledge in some macabre way?