Gene Frenkle

You're right. Why implies intent.

I mean why as in: "Why does something work the way it appears to?"

I'll make no assumptions as to what makes a person like you tick.

It's theoretically possible to create a new universe. I'll refer you to this NPR article and podcast - it's really interesting: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6545246 For argument's sake, let's assume that this is possible. If you spawned a new universe in this manner and it grew and eventually developed life, would you suddenly know everything about it (like god)? Would you suddenly have the power to control what happens there? Would you suddenly be immortal and capable of controlling such a creation? I think not.

Ok, that's fine. I'm certainly not trying to tell you what to believe. It's not a very satisfying end to the discussion, but religious views never are because at some point you have to stop asking "why" and just go with "god did it". If science, government and religion are kept separate I have no beef.

It doesn't matter (get it?). It has been seen to interact with the physical world and in doing so it is by definition not supernatural. Next you should start talking about how we don't know everything about quantum theory. Then get on the "missing link". It's all god of the gaps and it's not even worth discussing.

I was speaking of a multiverse of infinite universes. Such a thing would contain infinite universes that are suitable for life as well as infinite universes that are exactly like ours, down to the quantum level. Every possible configuration of strengths of Electromagnetism, Gravity and the Strong and Weak Nuclear Forces was implied by "infinite". I've also heard the strong anthropic principle (never knew a name for it) applied to the likelihood of life on other planets an how unique "we" potentially are. It makes a lot of sense to me, but doesn't really answer many questions.

Ah, there it is. It doesn't matter to me personally because it's not a question I can ever know the answer to. There's more than enough after the moment of "creation" of our Universe to occupy me for many many lifetimes. If you want to relegate god to simply be "the thing that started the Big Bang", that's arguably a reasonable thing to think. I can live with that god, but I don't think that god has any concept of our day to day lives or cares what we do. We can probably never know. Religion take it many steps further than that, unfortunately. Where does the rest of religion come from and why is it even in the conversation? My contention is that it comes from man. As an extension of that, ironically, it comes as a result of evolution which is a non-goal-oriented process which occurred over millions of years (or 6,000 for some). Everything about us, including our hard-wired need to believe in religion is a result of that process and our experiences and that's it. But that's enough for me. Many people need more than that (or at least think they do) and religion fills the void I guess.

From far away at just the right angle, some people think it looks like a belt.

That's certainly a nice sentiment, but if this Universe weren't as it is, we wouldn't be here to think these nice thoughts. Let's assume for a moment that there are infinite universes with infinite variations of the laws of physics. An infinite number would end up exactly as this one with an infinite number of "yous" telling an infinite number of "mes" how wonederful the Universe is and how it just couldn't possibly have happened by chance. I'm not even invoking magical thinking in this. It's simply a possible variation of M-Theory (M for Multiverse).

It has been DIRECTLY gravitationally observed and even mapped.

Or maybe: Dog is dead.

There is no dog.

Ms Garrison

Attack the argument, not the man. I'm not interested in your opinion of what his primary argument is. A devout Christian like yourself is not 100% POSITIVE that god exists???

Wow, you always seemed smarter than this... There's nothing scientific here. Even if 100% of anyone ever born both believed in a higher power and saw things that "cannot be explained by any scientific means", it still would not be scientifically significant. You're pulling stats out of your ass. There are several very plausible evolutionary explanations for your observation. After a quick search, this article that glosses over some possibilities: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1398...e-suggests.html Well, Occam's razor says the simplest explanation is best, so your ancient space aliens theory is probably right. Be sure to bring it up at your next Scientology meeting. Dark matter can be observed gravitationally, which immediately takes it out of the realm of supernatural or religion. This is a low-budget 'god of the gaps' argument because there's not even a scientific gap. Try again. When all else fails, attack with an ad-hominem.

Which makes you at least an agnostic. An atheist in the sense that you only have an absence of belief. There should not be such a stigma attached to these words.

Wrong big guy, I don't CHOOSE to believe in anything any more than I CHOOSE to love anything. It's not a matter of choice if you're being honest with yourself.

You're still basing your faith on nothing. Do what you will of course. You have obviously given this a lot of thought and it sounds like you were once where I am now. What caused you to change your mind? I ask because while it certainly might be nice to believe in a higher power, I don't think people can force themselves to believe in such things.

When's the last time you actually had anything worthwhile to say?

A much better effort. You truly are antagonistic.

There are no voices. There is no stopping. You can't prove any of it, so why bother? If nothing exists, we might as well make schitt up and then kill and persecute each other and fight wars over made up schitt!

Einstein's opinion that the Christian god described in the Bible was nothing more than a childish story does not conflict with the fact that he believed in a creator and true order in the Universe. Of course, something must have started it all, but that's as far as anyone can reasonably take it right now IMHO.

Actually 1 + 1 = 10