Gene Frenkle

Ok, whatever, like I said - I don't care.

Yes, you seem to have barely any free time at all. Really though, thanks for the correction. I appreciate it. In retrospect, that particular quote seems a bit over-the-top for the time. Care to show me the misquotes in the other John Adams quotes: Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion? - John Adams Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole cartloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days? - John Adams The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. - John Adams

Maybe god is testing them. Maybe butterflies will fly out of my a$$. Your hypotheticals are insignificant against actual data.

What can I say? I know you don't like most of what I have to say, and that's fine. If you have a certain opinion about me, that's your right and there's not likely anything I'm going to say to change it. Plus, I really don't care. If you're looking for a response or an argument, I'll offer this: You will never see me link to a crappy partisan website because I don't get my information from crappy partisan websites. If you think I will base my opinion of the quality and bias of articles on a website on the advertisements found there, you are right. Advertisers make their living by finding their target audience, so I think that advertisements speak loudly about the quality of the content of such sites. In general, when I state my OPINION, and I don't think it's obvious that I'm stating opinion, I try to state that I am stating opinion (as opposed to fact or theory). If I make a statement that is not opinion, I do the research and back it up with data. The thing I value most with regard to much of the discussion that goes on here is what the scientific evidence has to say about any particular topic. I am more than happy to change my thoughts on anything if there is data and/or evidence which contradicts what I think I know. Nothing is more important than what is, what the evidence says, and I don't have patience for people who think otherwise or don't think logically or critically. I don't like your religion or any religion because it causes nothing but trouble and horror. I understand why some of those things turn some people off and I think that's great, especially if it takes you out of your comfort zone and makes you think. ...and I'll respond to each accusation: I don't give serious thought to much of anything. - If anything, I spend way too much time reading about and thinking about the crap we discuss here. I am an idealogue (sic) with all that goes with that. - Aside from your spell-checker being broken, my ideology is the scientific method and all that comes with that. I read or pay attention to left-leaning extremist crap anymore than I read or pay attention to right-leaning crap. - Are you privy to my browser history? That's just a false statement. I'm incapable of considering ideas different than what I have apparently have been indoctrinated in. - Considering I was "indoctrinated" into the Roman Catholic Church, I'd say I've proven pretty capable of considering other ideas at this point. Now if you want to turn around a point that same finger at yourself, I don't think you'd fare so well - in reality at least.

really Gary? I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth. - Thomas Jefferson Christianity...the most perverted system that ever shone on man...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and imposters led by Paul, the first great corruptor of the teachings of Jesus. - Thomas Jefferson The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulturated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ. - Thomas Jefferson The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes; fools and hypocrites. To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. - Thomas Jefferson This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it. - John Adams Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion? - John Adams Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole cartloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days? - John Adams The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. - John Adams Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst. - Thomas Paine The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion. - Thomas Paine Among the most detesable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers, and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible). - Thomas Paine It is the duty of every true Diest to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible. - Thomas Paine Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind. - Thomas Paine What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyrrany. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy. - James Madison Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. - George Washington I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity. - Benjamin Franklin Lighthouses are more helpful than churches. - Benjamin Franklin The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. - Benjamin Franklin I looked around for God's judgments, but saw no signs of them. - Benjamin Franklin In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the lack of it. - Benjamin Franklin

Well, it appears you don't know me at all...oh well.

They're just numbers dude. That's like asking what percentage of agnostics/atheists were divorced BEFORE conversion... The point is, it seems, that you're more likely to have been divorced if you're religious. You don't have to like the facts.

What do you think?

Bullschitt, the United States was not even founded by Christians and your "morality from religion" argument is equally unsubstantiated. Don't let the facts get in the way of your moral bender: Conservative Christians of all types, evangelical as well as Catholic, tend to link their conservative brand of their religion with proper moral behavior. By far the most popular context is marriage: they claim that a good, solid marriage is only possible when people acknowledge conservative Christianity's claims about the nature of marriage and gender roles. So why is it that Christian marriages, and especially conservative Christian marriages, end in divorce more often than atheist marriages? The Barna Research Group, an evangelical Christian organization that does surveys and research to better understand what Christians believe and how they behave, studied divorce rates in America in 1999 and found surprising evidence that divorce is far lower among atheists than among conservative Christians — exactly the opposite of what they were probably expecting. 11% of all American adults are divorced 25% of all American adults have had at least one divorce 27% of born-again Christians have had at least one divorce 24% of all non-born-again Christians have been divorced 21% of atheists have been divorced 21% of Catholics and Lutherans have been divorced 24% of Mormons have been divorced 25% of mainstream Protestants have been divorced 29% of Baptists have been divorced 24% of nondenominational, independent Protestants have been divorced 27% of people in the South and Midwest have been divorced 26% of people in the West have been divorced 19% of people in the Northwest and Northeast have been divorced http://atheism.about...istsDivorce.htm

I don't have enough time or motivation to give serious thought to every crackpot article on every crackpot website you wingnuts link to.

I didn't have to look very far to Buy Gold Now, but I'm going to likely starve to death because I couldn't find any Survival Seeds for my Apocalyptic Crisis Garden. WTF?

Anyone who is so blatantly and unabashedly partisan is intellectually lazy IMO. No offense 1billsfan.

Not even a little bit!

Does anybody else find the combination of OP and thread topic supremely ironic?

An "extremely bright" Catholic is probably just going through the motions.

Somebody's got a man crush!

Preach on, I'd love to take that quiz.

The smart criminals will use encryption that the Feds can't crack, so what's the point?

Right...good luck with that (technically that is).

That would be an improvement...

Lemme translate: You don't like what I have to say, but have nothing real to say about any of my arguments so you resort to generalizations and ad hominem attacks.

Not impossible Joe, just unnecessary and improbable. I never said anything resembling: "beyond the shadow of a doubt that the existence of a Divine Being is IMPOSSIBLE". Fairy tales are not impossible either, just similarly improbable. I'm not the one who deals in absolutes. Don't be disingenuous just because you don't like what's being said. The extraordinary claim remains yours.

Joe, we've been through this before. I'm not the one making the extraordinary claim here, so it's not on me to disprove anything.

Nice response. I'm just trying to make sense of it all like the rest and this just happens to be a topic I have strong opinions about. Oh well.

No more than most here. Care to argue a point or just attack?