plenzmd1

Bills lots and ECC lot will open at 4. So much is gunna be weather dependent. 50mPh winds are gunna curtail some early tailgating for sure.

sorry have not had time to respond to this. Seems to me every article presented there is dated pre November, most of them pre October. Granted i did not click every article, but i am guessing they were all using pre September numbers...before Delta really kicked in. PLease tell me if i am wrong in that assumption. The number i do know for sure is that Erie county used a 43% of hospitalized patients were fully vaxed number in the press release they put out to justify the mask mandates. Thats a real world, up to date number. Do you think that is just an anomaly? Va seems to do a good job of tracking this..see here https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/see-the-numbers/covid-19-in-virginia/covid-19-cases-by-vaccination-status/ So if i use that number of 4.6 times as effective at even contracting Covid, and then another factor of say 6X times as effective keeping the positive cases out of hospital, something aint adding up there. Unless we just accept the fact that WNY has massive obesity problems, and that is prolly more a factor than vaccine status on hospitalization.... This is where my vaccine hesitancy comes from. I think the data is garbage,especially on the federal level..and the message we get from our politicians and the Fauci's of the world directly contradict what they tall us about the vaccines. I could probably live with them calling it preventative therapeutics, just stop calling them vaccines.

Why? Does it work against Omicron?

I agree with expanded rapid testing being important. We all took them Thanksgiving day. All 18 people were fully vaxed, 5 had had Covid post being fully vaxxed, but just made us feel safer being around an at risk family member. in terms of travel protocols, just reinforces to me they don’t believe vaccines stop the spread either. If everyone on plane has to be vaxed, why put in additional requirements, especially for Americans returning home? I mean I understand the testing requirement cause I don’t think they work to stop spread, but this kinda confirms to me they don’t either.

agreed...but if we can require proof of vax to do so much, especially in NYS...why not if you get a test at a lab? I also think cases are prolly much higher among the vaxed than reported as at home tests become more and more prevalent. While i went to to a lab to get arapid antigen test and tested positive in September(fully Moderna Vaxed) , the other 4 fully vaxed folks who were with me that weekend who contracted Covid all used home tests. That is why am so insistent that i am trying to interpret real world data and understand the efficacy of these vaccines much more than a study on 10K people.

and i will ask again...would not a better number be comparing real world infections in vaxed vs unvaxed people? But the CDC has chosen to not track that...why is that?

As long as they do it for the fatties too. As we know, 78% of Covid hospitalization is in the obese. Let’s now even forget the effect on other costs outside of Covid. Ya good with that are you you part of the problem there ?

If ya read the transcript, he also says masks are prolly never coming off as they have worked so well with influenza. As you and several of us here said in June of 20, masks are here to stay! and we will have many saying it’s a good thing! Kids in masks for ever!

I have been very vocal vaccines do not work as advertised , and they are not even close. They do not provide sterilized immunity or prevent transmission of the virus. If you want to argue that, please do. Hense they are not a vaccine. And You think people are being treated the same today as they were a year ago? You think the anti body treatments were being administered last year in significant numbers? and okay, you think new therapeutics getting approved is pure speculation, I think it’s it’s an absolute certainly for both Merck and Pfizer. Bet ya $50 to your favorite charity. and if you think Spanish Flu did not die out you just debating words. It became endemic and we still dealing with it today, but it certainly did not continue to drop hundreds of thousands as it did in its peak.. hense it freaking died out. Ya see, I was all in the vaccines and am willing to acknowledge with new evidence they do not work as a vaccine, so they don’t work. you refuse to look at evidence and acknowledge anything that goes against your preconceived notion these vaccines work as a vaccine. They don’t, and evidence of the numbers and actions of those is power confirm it. Again, why the state of emergency in NYS if the vaccines work ?

I would be overjoyed if the vaccines worked as they were advertised. We were fed 91 and 96 % efficacy against contracting Covid, that even if you were in the small group that did get Covid you would not spread. It is clear based on case counts that is not the case. We were told the vaccines provided sterilizing immunity, they do not. I am happy they appear to provide a modicum of therapeutic value within a few months of the jab. having said that, we are now going into year 3 of Covid worldwide. I would submit a couple of points. 1) most , not all, virus mutate over time to become more transmissible and less deadly to their hosts. 2) it’s 2021, medical information and research is crazy good and shared across the world in real time. The medical community is continually learning how better treat symptomatic and severe cases. 3) we have therapeutics like the dexy steroid and mono clonal antibodies that impact fatality rates 4) new therapeutics should be approved shortly. 5). All of those can explain the drop in fatalities attributed to Covid. The absolute belief that the vaccine works and is our only way “out” of the Covid phase of our history seems to me misplaced. Skepticism and investigations should be through the roof right now. Maybe the numbers decreased in the spring cause it was the spring, and not cause of anything the vaccine did. When the pills arrive and Covid becomes less fatal, it will also be credited to the vaccine. Annnd I dunno , why did Spanish Flu and H1N1 die out after at latest 3rd wave with no vax, but here we are with a vaccine and about to enter out 4th? Is the vaccine having some sort of crazy effect on that? Is the fact that you can still contract the virus allowing for the virus to act differently? I don’t know, but I think the question sure as hell should be asked and investigated. Call me nuts and I am picking off easy targets , but when NYS is declaring a new State of Emergency amid 80% vax rates and the cult of vaccines keeps saying vax is only way out I just see insanity.

Let’s just say they aren’t nearly as effective as we are told, we are in same a spot as we have ever been. Vulnerable are at risk, most people are at very little risk of having to go to hospital, our immune systems will adjust, and Covid is never going away. Take a gander at India’s numbers with less than 20 % vaxed as of a month ago.

Or maybe, just maybe, the vax don’t work as advertised.

And another example that @Sundancer will explain away Hmm, 80% vaxed, and transmitting at rates not seen since April 2020. Thank you sir, may I have another!

Hmm, more proof of the efficacy of vaccines. About 1/20th the size of us, would equate to 400k cases in the US. just remember, we can’t get back to normal till we get 70% fully vaccinated, cause that’s what the studies show us!! https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/11/27/amsterdam-omicron-covid-variant-lockdown/

Here is what i was talking about...and to be clear....that was in a thread wanting to make people broke if they contracted Covid while not being vax... Caes counts same dates year apart in November, except Florida used August as that has been their peak both years 2000 2001 NY...5400-- 7200 Fla 10,400, 26K CA 8444- 5672 nc 3415- 2225 il 5200-- 7100 MI 3415-- 1200 CO 5700-- 2600 TX 12K-- 4k ....they had peaks different months last year, that is Nov 20 to Nov 20...if compare peaks of Dec 20 and August 21 its 32k in 20, 24 K in 21 Can keep going through and see numbers numbers like this...some up marginally, some down marginally....all of it with growing immunity based on just simple case numbers, and the vaccine hitting over 60% in most places. Now you subscribe to the fact that means the vaccine work exactly as advertised and as in studies. I see little difference in the numbers of cases. My resistance to this the last few months, (and if you go back to spring /early summer, I was a huge proponent of the vax, but not mandates) is people have their head in the sand and are so entrenched in the "only way we get back to normal is to keep getting more shots into people"...when it appears to me it has little effect. The massive drops in the spring might just be attributed to a flu like virus being ,,,wait for it, more contagious in the winter when we are all inside. And maybe as we go forward as more and more people keep getting infected, the numbers will keep coming down. And that will ascribed to the vax, instead of any kind of real analysis being done ....cause a whole lot of folks have a whole lot invested in the vax working as advertised. Either way, hope you all have a wonderful Thanksgiving with your family and friends....and Go Bills

Florida no dount had that massive spike this year...same rules as previous years, but had 60% vaxed this year I missed that point of overall deaths up,you are correct

I downplay studies in light of the real world numbers. You dismiss real world numbers cause you believe so much in the studies. Which one sound counter intuitive to you? Again, make your point using real world numbers form any number of sites .... Let me put it another way..forget there was ever a study by interested parties but out and you were only presented with the following facts: November 24th of 2020 there were 5500 cases of Covid and 39 deaths in NYS and zero vaccinated. November 24th of 2021 there were 7200 cases of Covid and 50 deaths with 70% Vaccinated... your conclusion would be the vaccine works as advertised?

again, explain to me how cases are up 25% year over year in NYS on same dates, deaths are up....and yet you claim vaccines work like they were promised. Just explain how that is...using real world numbers and not freaking studies!!!!!

sure thing Total deaths per/million to date NY..2970 Fla ..2847 Really no statistical difference. One could argue NY was hit last spring before so much was known, and at least in the NYC area, mush denser living conditions. However, one could also argue Florida has a greater percentage of risk folks due to age....so not sure how to separate that out. Florida had what looks like its peak in August 21...412 deaths at its highest....not quite sure how to put a date range in there. Yesterday they had 7. Florida at its peak last August with same policies but no vax had at its peak 214 deaths. Hmm, and this year they had close to 62% fully vaxed. NY last year on this date last year had 39 deaths...this year has 50...again with close to 70% fully vaxed. And , lets not forget we are always told hospitalizations lag cases, deaths lag hospitalizations. And cases are up 25% year over year in NYS same date as last year. all numbers courtesy of Worldmeters, easy as pie to go there and look. To me, if anything this points to deaths and cases being higher WITH vaccines. Again, I am open to hearing why that is not the case..taking same population and numbers on same dates... so deaths are WAY up with 70% vax, but god bless they are our only way out? Do you listen to yourself?

Uhmmm, Worldometers is NOT one of your beloved studies, it is REAL WORKD NUMBERS !!! So let me get this straight, in your world a study with 40k participants is more statically relevant than real world numbers with 39 million participants? Is that what you are arguing? And seasonality? NYS cases are 25% higher than what they were last year on same date? Seasonality? and if the Delta is twice as contagious even with the vax, and we giving same exact vax as before Delta.. why should we expect a different outcome. oh I know, cause the Fauci’s of the world say it’s just a booster needed. Same people who said no mask needed, same people who said vaxed folks do not get or spread the virus, same people who said vax was 29 times more likely to keep you out of hospital. Same people who said masks will give 80% better chance not getting Covid just a few weeks ago… even better protection than the vax! Like I said, we all wanted to believe 12 months ago vax was all we needed to zero Covid. That’s never happening, this is now an endemic of the not previously infected, not the unvaxed. again, show me effectiveness sing empirical, real world numbers and not studies. I just have.

Well, if jobless claims fell by 100k, but 200k fell out of the job force, it’s not a net positive.

Those on the surface appear very good. I do not know if they reported labor participation rates as well? Was that in release somewhere? and I would assume that means many of the provisions of BBB meant to help people get back to work are not needed based on those numbers?

I am fine with that as long as it extends to every thing people can do to increase their odds of staying out of hospital. We know for instance , far greater number of vaxxed obese people die and are in hospital(78% of overall deaths have been in obese people) than unvaxxed non obese people. So if your BMI is over a certain percent, you good with those people paying for their care?. We KNOW that is by far the greatest risk factor in deaths, not vax status. You good with that? yes...we have real world case numbers year over year....25% higher in NYS with 71% vaccinated vs last year. We were told by Fauci and Wallenski and Biden..get to 70% and this thing is over..it aint. So it has to be spreading amongst the vaccinated...as the hospitalizations in Erie county prove. Just answer a simple question...why are cases 25% higher in NYS with 71% fully vaxed?

hoax is they prevent hospitalizations. They reduce for sure, but no where near what was first reported. So lets see what happens as we continue to gather real word data vs rushed studies and projections. Ya know, like in a normal vaccine authorization process. And if we can get the therapeutic pills approved and they work as advertised, they should be more effective at preventing hospitalizations than these vaccines are proven to be. This is the problem with the vaccine thing...we all wanted it to work so bad and to end this Covid crap...we let ourselves take studies as gospel. But we have real world data now...NYS 71% vaxed and and yet 25% more cases this year over last at same exact time...and people will swear the studies show they prevent transmission, so that must be true!!!!

so take the shot even if the real world date is proving they dont work? Fudge studies, we have actual data now... So you are anti- science?