1B4IDie

I'm not interested in anyone's opinion of the OSU game. I could care less if anyone agrees or disagrees with my assessment of Mack's OSU outlier performance. The question asked many times and no one has answered is why did Mack disappear at the end of the season when UB needed him the most?

This is the main point and it is very simple: Mack played OSU before teams knew Mack's potential. Mack was already talked about as a possible late first rounder but after the OSU game he was talked about as a Top 15 to Top 5 guy. Ohio State was completely blindsided by Mack's performance. Everyone knows that the big boys need to pad the scoreboard against the little guys. And OSU had a weak schedule so they needed even more padding. The fact is Mack had an amazing game against OSU but was a non factor in MAC conference games and their bowl game when UB needed Mack the most. That FACT is scary. That is the whole point of "The OP" as you put it. You can take exception to use of the word preseason game if you want. It still is basically a pre-season game in college football. To your point The style points in these pre-season games are important. Which is not the point of "the OP" but still true.

I was the OP. I understand how college football works. The Ohio State game was like a Pre Season game for OSU, it does diminish Mack's performance. OSU was not prepared or game planning for Mack's dominance it took them by surprise. You agree with the statement in essence but are being nit-picky with the words I used. I wish Mack the best in the NFL but I'm concerned about his ability to translate to the NFL especially landing with the Raiders. The Raiders have a long history of struggling to develop 1st round picks.

The point being that #5 overall isn't a value pick. Come on man. A major conference pays to play teams in minor conferences because they expect to win. Call 'em tune up games, warm up games whatever you want it's not the same as a conference game in November. Of course the games count in the record but other than Michigan losing to whatever they call DII the majors rarely lose to the minors. You can debate the relevance of those games with yourself. The main question still stands, what happened to Mack when the Bulls were trying to win the MAC? Was he pulling a Clowney and protecting himself for the draft or was the cat out if the bag and teams easily game planned for Mack and took him out of the game?

The problem is it was a top 10 pick and Barr isn't ready for the NFL in 2014. I agree in 2016 he may develop into a force. A top 10 pick that takes that long to develop could be called a bust. Especially if he ends up developing on someone else's team.

How were Mack's numbers when UB was trying to win a conference championship and playing in a Bowl game? Mack had an awesome game against Ohio State in basically a pre season game for Ohio State but disappeared down the stretch when UB needed him most. That scares the Bee Jee Bees out of me if I'm an NFL GM. No way I touch him with a Top 10 pick.

A Bust in the Top 10 is held to a different Standard then a bust later in the draft imo. I think there are a few that were draft in Top 10 in 2014 that will have decent NFL careers but be considered NFL busts because of where they were drafted. I chose Mack in the poll because well the Raiders are a mess and LB in the Top 10 is already a stretch to be successful. I don't think Bortles will be a "Franchise QB." I think "WAR" is the best measurement of a "Franchise QB" if the QB leads the team to win games that the team would lose without the QB or with an average QB then that QB is a Franchise QB. I think Bortles is headed to be an average QB at best. I think that would be considered a bust at #3 overall. Ebron, is not especially, tall, fast, or has good hands. He is just an average build and ability. I have no idea how he got elevated to a Top 10 pick and why. The one thing he does have going for him is attitude. I don't think he'll ever be a 1,000 yard or 100 catch TE and that is what you want out of a Top 10 TE pock. He'll be a 50 catch 500 yard TE for a decade plus. Again; a good player but that may be a bust for a Top 10 pick. Mack needs to be 10 year sack man every year to be worth the #5 overall pick. I don't know if that is Mack's reality in the NFL. I expect he'll be the first one to wash out of the team that drafted him in the Top 10. The Raiders will try to recycle him after two season with single digit sacks. Anthony Barr may be the first actually bust - bust. He is weak. He couldn't bench at the combine and that really scares me for a LB. If Mike Zimmer escorts Barr to the weight room and stays on his case it may translate. Bench is an easy exercise to improve with more reps. Barr knew he needed to show bench at the combine and had three months to prepare. Why the poor showing? It points to a lack of preparation. I find that worrisome. Went might rescue Barr is good coaching with Zimmer and team, but Rivers is on the Buffalo Bills after washing out with Zimmer. (Speaking of Rivers, the guy seems like a great guy to grab a beer with or go to an art show, http://www.buffalobi...4-cf516d8ce7d6. I like LBs more like Kiko though "See Ball; Get Ball") Justin Gilbert - Was he really worth trading up for? I don't get it. He should be a solid CB. Mike Evans vs Sammy Watkins - I hope in 5 years there is no discussion, and Sammy Watkins is a several time All Pro and Super Bowl MVP. It'll be interesting to watch these two careers. I don't think either one will be a bust bust but will either won be a consecutive 1000 yard receiver with 10 + touchdowns a year? Clowney at OLB is that the right fit? Is Houston Repeating history with Mario Williams just accelerated. The guy is a freak of nature but I hope its not a square peg in a round hole. As for the Lineman. - Robinson is an athletic MOnster but has the higher Bust potential over Jake Mathews - especially with Robinson getting thrown into the fire in the NFC West and having to play the Seahawks, Cardinals and 9ers twice a year as a rookie. That is 6 tough games that make all pro Tackles look bad - But thats why you draft a Tackle that high if you're the Rams.

Exactly. Believe me, I understand how the whole exercise is arbitrary. Someone posted that there was a break even point in the draft value chart and I'm simply trying to determine how they came to that conclusion. I now see that is by discounting future picks. For ***** and Giggles here is the chart using the traditional values with a 1 Round discount; which has a breakeven point at pick 17. Traditional w 1 round Discount Cleveland Browns Buffalo Bills 2015 Pick Delta 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 580 2015 4th 43 Total 1,973 2014 #4 1800 1 -173 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 560 2015 4th 42 Total 1,952 2014 #4 1800 2 -152 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 550 2015 4th 41 Total 1,941 2014 #4 1800 3 -141 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 540 2015 4th 40 Total 1,930 2014 #4 1800 4 -130 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 530 2015 4th 39.5 Total 1,920 2014 #4 1800 5 -120 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 520 2015 4th 39 Total 1,909 2014 #4 1800 6 -109 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 510 2015 4th 38.5 Total 1,899 2014 #4 1800 7 -99 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 500 2015 4th 38 Total 1,888 2014 #4 1800 8 -88 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 490 2015 4th 37.5 Total 1,878 2014 #4 1800 9 -78 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 480 2015 4th 37 Total 1,867 2014 #4 1800 10 -67 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 470 2015 4th 36.5 Total 1,857 2014 #4 1800 11 -57 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 460 2015 4th 36 Total 1,846 2014 #4 1800 12 -46 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 450 2015 4th 35.5 Total 1,836 2014 #4 1800 13 -36 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 440 2015 4th 35 Total 1,825 2014 #4 1800 14 -25 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 430 2015 4th 34.5 Total 1,815 2014 #4 1800 15 -15 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 420 2015 4th 34 Total 1,804 2014 #4 1800 16 -4 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 410 2015 4th 33.5 Total 1,794 2014 #4 1800 17 7 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 400 2015 4th 33 Total 1,783 2014 #4 1800 18 17 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 390 2015 4th 32.6 Total 1,773 2014 #4 1800 19 27 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 380 2015 4th 32.2 Total 1,762 2014 #4 1800 20 38 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 370 2015 4th 31.8 Total 1,752 2014 #4 1800 21 48 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 360 2015 4th 31.4 Total 1,741 2014 #4 1800 22 59 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 350 2015 4th 31 Total 1,731 2014 #4 1800 23 69 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 340 2015 4th 31.8 Total 1,722 2014 #4 1800 24 78 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 330 2015 4th 31.2 Total 1,711 2014 #4 1800 25 89 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 320 2015 4th 30.8 Total 1,701 2014 #4 1800 26 99 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 310 2015 4th 30.4 Total 1,690 2014 #4 1800 27 110 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 300 2015 4th 30 Total 1,680 2014 #4 1800 28 120 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 292 2015 4th 29.6 Total 1,672 2014 #4 1800 29 128 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 284 2015 4th 29.2 Total 1,663 2014 #4 1800 30 137 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 276 2015 4th 28.8 Total 1,655 2014 #4 1800 31 145 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 270 2015 4th 28.4 Total 1,648 2014 #4 1800 32 152 The Interesting piece about the "Meers" values is that there is a significantly lower delta between picks. I personally believe that value is closer to reality if you're trying to give an empirical value to draft position. I mean the difference in potential of a player picked at #29 or #25 is pretty minimal. The traditional value chart has a 12% delta where the "Meers" system gives a 6% delta.

I found this article interesting http://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/how-to-value-nfl-draft-picks/ Kevin Meers put together a new chart based on Career Approximate Value over Average by draft position. So if we use those numbers the trade looks even worse. Harvard Chart Cleveland Browns Buffalo Bills 2015 Pick Delta 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 494.6 2015 4th 97.8 Total 900 2014 #4 376.9 1 -524 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 435.7 2015 4th 97.1 Total 841 2014 #4 376.9 2 -464 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 401.3 2015 4th 96.3 Total 806 2014 #4 376.9 3 -429 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 376.9 2015 4th 95.5 Total 780 2014 #4 376.9 4 -404 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 357.9 2015 4th 94.7 Total 761 2014 #4 376.9 5 -384 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 342.4 2015 4th 94 Total 744 2014 #4 376.9 6 -368 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 329.4 2015 4th 93.2 Total 731 2014 #4 376.9 7 -354 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 318 2015 4th 92.5 Total 719 2014 #4 376.9 8 -342 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 308 2015 4th 91.7 Total 708 2014 #4 376.9 9 -331 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 299.1 2015 4th 91 Total 698 2014 #4 376.9 10 -321 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 291 2015 4th 90.3 Total 689 2014 #4 376.9 11 -312 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 283.6 2015 4th 89.5 Total 681 2014 #4 376.9 12 -304 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 276.8 2015 4th 88.88 Total 674 2014 #4 376.9 13 -297 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 270.5 2015 4th 88.1 Total 667 2014 #4 376.9 14 -290 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 264.7 2015 4th 87.4 Total 660 2014 #4 376.9 15 -283 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 259.2 2015 4th 86.7 Total 654 2014 #4 376.9 16 -277 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 254 2015 4th 86 Total 648 2014 #4 376.9 17 -271 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 249.2 2015 4th 85.3 Total 643 2014 #4 376.9 18 -266 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 244.6 2015 4th 84.6 Total 637 2014 #4 376.9 19 -260 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 240.2 2015 4th 84 Total 632 2014 #4 376.9 20 -255 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 236.1 2015 4th 83.3 Total 627 2014 #4 376.9 21 -251 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 232.1 2015 4th 82.6 Total 623 2014 #4 376.9 22 -246 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 228.4 2015 4th 82 Total 618 2014 #4 376.9 23 -242 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 224.7 2015 4th 81.3 Total 614 2014 #4 376.9 24 -237 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 221.3 2015 4th 80.7 Total 610 2014 #4 376.9 25 -233 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 218 2015 4th 80 Total 606 2014 #4 376.9 26 -229 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 214.7 2015 4th 79.4 Total 602 2014 #4 376.9 27 -225 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 211.7 2015 4th 78.7 Total 598 2014 #4 376.9 28 -222 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 208.7 2015 4th 78.1 Total 595 2014 #4 376.9 29 -218 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 205.8 2015 4th 77.5 Total 591 2014 #4 376.9 30 -214 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 203 2015 4th 76.9 Total 588 2014 #4 376.9 31 -211 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 200.3 2015 4th 76.2 Total 585 2014 #4 376.9 32 -208 Ouch a 208 difference if the Bills Win the Super Bowl is like an extra 1st round pick thrown in for fun. The Harvard numbers with the 50% Discount for future picks: Harvard Chart w 50% discount Cleveland Browns Buffalo Bills 2015 Pick Delta 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 247.3 2015 4th 48.9 Total 604 2014 #4 376.9 1 -227 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 217.85 2015 4th 48.55 Total 574 2014 #4 376.9 2 -198 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 200.65 2015 4th 48.15 Total 557 2014 #4 376.9 3 -180 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 188.45 2015 4th 47.75 Total 544 2014 #4 376.9 4 -167 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 178.95 2015 4th 47.35 Total 534 2014 #4 376.9 5 -157 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 171.2 2015 4th 47 Total 526 2014 #4 376.9 6 -149 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 164.7 2015 4th 46.6 Total 519 2014 #4 376.9 7 -142 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 159 2015 4th 46.25 Total 513 2014 #4 376.9 8 -136 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 154 2015 4th 45.85 Total 508 2014 #4 376.9 9 -131 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 149.55 2015 4th 45.5 Total 503 2014 #4 376.9 10 -126 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 145.5 2015 4th 45.15 Total 499 2014 #4 376.9 11 -122 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 141.8 2015 4th 44.75 Total 495 2014 #4 376.9 12 -118 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 138.4 2015 4th 44.44 Total 491 2014 #4 376.9 13 -114 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 135.25 2015 4th 44.05 Total 487 2014 #4 376.9 14 -110 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 132.35 2015 4th 43.7 Total 484 2014 #4 376.9 15 -107 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 129.6 2015 4th 43.35 Total 481 2014 #4 376.9 16 -104 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 127 2015 4th 43 Total 478 2014 #4 376.9 17 -101 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 124.6 2015 4th 42.65 Total 475 2014 #4 376.9 18 -98 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 122.3 2015 4th 42.3 Total 473 2014 #4 376.9 19 -96 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 120.1 2015 4th 42 Total 470 2014 #4 376.9 20 -93 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 118.05 2015 4th 41.65 Total 468 2014 #4 376.9 21 -91 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 116.05 2015 4th 41.3 Total 465 2014 #4 376.9 22 -88 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 114.2 2015 4th 41 Total 463 2014 #4 376.9 23 -86 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 112.35 2015 4th 40.65 Total 461 2014 #4 376.9 24 -84 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 110.65 2015 4th 40.35 Total 459 2014 #4 376.9 25 -82 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 109 2015 4th 40 Total 457 2014 #4 376.9 26 -80 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 107.35 2015 4th 39.7 Total 455 2014 #4 376.9 27 -78 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 105.85 2015 4th 39.35 Total 453 2014 #4 376.9 28 -76 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 104.35 2015 4th 39.05 Total 451 2014 #4 376.9 29 -75 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 102.9 2015 4th 38.75 Total 450 2014 #4 376.9 30 -73 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 101.5 2015 4th 38.45 Total 448 2014 #4 376.9 31 -71 2014 #9 308 2015 1st 100.15 2015 4th 38.1 Total 446 2014 #4 376.9 32 -69 Still no break even, a 69 point difference is like an extra 5th. Well now I know why the National media is saying the Bills gave up a lot to move up for 4 spots, because well, they did. But to everyone's point, it doesn't matter what the point differential was if Sammy Watkins truly becomes a HoFer. Say a 16 year playing career, given improvements in health care. That would make him a first ballot Hall of Famer in the Class of ~2036; from Andre Reed to Sammy Watkins.

I've never heard of discounting by a round. I do remember someone saying that you discount future picks by 50%. Boom thats how you get the break even point at the 20s: Traditional Chart 50% discount Cleveland Browns Buffalo Bills 2015 Pick Delta 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 1500 2015 4th 56 Total 2,906 2014 #4 1800 1 -1,106 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 1300 2015 4th 54 Total 2,704 2014 #4 1800 2 -904 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 1100 2015 4th 52 Total 2,502 2014 #4 1800 3 -702 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 900 2015 4th 50 Total 2,300 2014 #4 1800 4 -500 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 850 2015 4th 48 Total 2,248 2014 #4 1800 5 -448 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 800 2015 4th 46 Total 2,196 2014 #4 1800 6 -396 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 750 2015 4th 44 Total 2,144 2014 #4 1800 7 -344 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 700 2015 4th 43 Total 2,093 2014 #4 1800 8 -293 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 675 2015 4th 42 Total 2,067 2014 #4 1800 9 -267 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 650 2015 4th 41 Total 2,041 2014 #4 1800 10 -241 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 625 2015 4th 40 Total 2,015 2014 #4 1800 11 -215 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 600 2015 4th 39 Total 1,989 2014 #4 1800 12 -189 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 575 2015 4th 38 Total 1,963 2014 #4 1800 13 -163 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 550 2015 4th 37 Total 1,937 2014 #4 1800 14 -137 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 525 2015 4th 36 Total 1,911 2014 #4 1800 15 -111 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 500 2015 4th 35 Total 1,885 2014 #4 1800 16 -85 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 475 2015 4th 34 Total 1,859 2014 #4 1800 17 -59 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 450 2015 4th 33 Total 1,833 2014 #4 1800 18 -33 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 437.5 2015 4th 32 Total 1,820 2014 #4 1800 19 -20 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 425 2015 4th 31 Total 1,806 2014 #4 1800 20 -6 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 400 2015 4th 30 Total 1,780 2014 #4 1800 21 20 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 390 2015 4th 29 Total 1,769 2014 #4 1800 22 31 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 380 2015 4th 28 Total 1,758 2014 #4 1800 23 42 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 370 2015 4th 27 Total 1,747 2014 #4 1800 24 53 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 360 2015 4th 26 Total 1,736 2014 #4 1800 25 64 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 350 2015 4th 25 Total 1,725 2014 #4 1800 26 75 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 340 2015 4th 24.5 Total 1,715 2014 #4 1800 27 86 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 330 2015 4th 24 Total 1,704 2014 #4 1800 28 96 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 320 2015 4th 23.5 Total 1,694 2014 #4 1800 29 107 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 310 2015 4th 23 Total 1,683 2014 #4 1800 30 117 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 300 2015 4th 22.5 Total 1,673 2014 #4 1800 31 128 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 295 2015 4th 22 Total 1,667 2014 #4 1800 32 133 Which begs the question, Why would you discount a future pick by a round?

If somehow he makes an NFL team, that is all we hear about. Holley, a native of Anchorage Alaska, . . .

This trade will be talked about on TBD for years, maybe even generations.

Sorry for the new thread but I searched the forum and could not find the Draft Pick Trade Value breakdown. It may have been folded into another thread. So I did a breakdown myself. I think this thread should stay separate for posterity but I'll leave this up to the Mods. I have my spreadsheet so I can find it in the future if I need it. It was posted somewhere that the Bills break even on the trade if they pick in the 20s. I took that post at face value. It is not true. Actually the Bills cannot break even in the Draft Pick Value chart no matter where they pick. I used the charts on these 3 links: http://profootballta...ft-trade-chart/ http://www.draftcoun...Value-Chart.php http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=2410670 The Bills Received the 2014 #4 pick worth 1,800 points The Browns Received the 2014 #9 pick worth 1350 The Browns Received the 2015 1st round pick pick worth 3000-590 points The Browns Received the 2015 4th round pick worth 112-44 points Meaning if the Bills draft #32 in 2015 the Browns will receive 1,984 points Obviously if the Bills earn the #32 pick the trade was worth it. To the Poster that posted a break even point how did they get that break even point? Am I missing something in the point breakdown? Also Does anyone know how to post a spreadsheet it always comes in funky like this: Cleveland Browns Buffalo Bills 2015 Pick Delta 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 3000 2015 4th 112 Total 4,462 2014 #4 1800 1 -2,662 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 2600 2015 4th 108 Total 4,058 2014 #4 1800 2 -2,258 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 2200 2015 4th 104 Total 3,654 2014 #4 1800 3 -1,854 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 1800 2015 4th 100 Total 3,250 2014 #4 1800 4 -1,450 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 1700 2015 4th 96 Total 3,146 2014 #4 1800 5 -1,346 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 1600 2015 4th 92 Total 3,042 2014 #4 1800 6 -1,242 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 1500 2015 4th 88 Total 2,938 2014 #4 1800 7 -1,138 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 1400 2015 4th 86 Total 2,836 2014 #4 1800 8 -1,036 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 1350 2015 4th 84 Total 2,784 2014 #4 1800 9 -984 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 1300 2015 4th 82 Total 2,732 2014 #4 1800 10 -932 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 1250 2015 4th 80 Total 2,680 2014 #4 1800 11 -880 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 1200 2015 4th 78 Total 2,628 2014 #4 1800 12 -828 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 1150 2015 4th 76 Total 2,576 2014 #4 1800 13 -776 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 1100 2015 4th 74 Total 2,524 2014 #4 1800 14 -724 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 1050 2015 4th 72 Total 2,472 2014 #4 1800 15 -672 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 1000 2015 4th 70 Total 2,420 2014 #4 1800 16 -620 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 950 2015 4th 68 Total 2,368 2014 #4 1800 17 -568 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 900 2015 4th 66 Total 2,316 2014 #4 1800 18 -516 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 875 2015 4th 64 Total 2,289 2014 #4 1800 19 -489 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 850 2015 4th 62 Total 2,262 2014 #4 1800 20 -462 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 800 2015 4th 60 Total 2,210 2014 #4 1800 21 -410 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 780 2015 4th 58 Total 2,188 2014 #4 1800 22 -388 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 760 2015 4th 56 Total 2,166 2014 #4 1800 23 -366 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 740 2015 4th 54 Total 2,144 2014 #4 1800 24 -344 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 720 2015 4th 52 Total 2,122 2014 #4 1800 25 -322 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 700 2015 4th 50 Total 2,100 2014 #4 1800 26 -300 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 680 2015 4th 49 Total 2,079 2014 #4 1800 27 -279 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 660 2015 4th 48 Total 2,058 2014 #4 1800 28 -258 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 640 2015 4th 47 Total 2,037 2014 #4 1800 29 -237 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 620 2015 4th 46 Total 2,016 2014 #4 1800 30 -216 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 600 2015 4th 45 Total 1,995 2014 #4 1800 31 -195 2014 #9 1350 2015 1st 590 2015 4th 44 Total 1,984 2014 #4 1800 32 -184

Really? You want to argue weather Sammy Watkins was a con census 1st rounder or Consensus top 10 pick in mock drafts in December 2013? The point is the game boosted his draft stock. People's opinion may vary from where to where.

When I watched that game my thoughts were that Sammy just played himself from a 1at round pick to a top 10 pick. Who knew it would be the #9 pick, a 2015 1st, and a 2015 4th. Without that game Watkins may have been available at #9. Not that I hate the trade just that that game was so impressive in all aspects of being a WR it couldn't help but send his draft stock into the atmosphere. I hope he can translate to every Sunday in the NFL.

The Cherry Picked draft still doesn't look that good. With that many draft picks it should be an overwhelming landslide in the Browns favor but it isn't. Not to mention the Biggest Problem in the cherry pick draft is that they'd still be Browns which, um, isn't exactly a career boost. They don't even have the D-League vibe that the Bills have. Just a dead end to no career.

Anyone not picking one of the following is over thinking it or under thinking it, imo. Yes its good for the long term to have Luck/Russell Wilson/RG III but lets just win one for Ralph in 2014. Peyton Manning (1 votes [4.76%] - View) Tom Brady (1 votes [4.76%] - View) Drew Brees (0 votes [0.00%]) Ben Roethlisberger (1 votes [4.76%] - View) Aaron Rodgers (12 votes [57.14%] - View) I think picking from the QBs below is a more interesting poll. EJ Manuel (1 votes [4.76%] - View) Tony Romo (0 votes [0.00%]) Colin Kaepernick (0 votes [0.00%]) Jay Cutler (0 votes [0.00%]) Fitz (0 votes [0.00%]) Skelton (0 votes [0.00%]) Other (0 votes [0.00

Thats fair but we will need to revisit the coulda draft piece in May 2015. But to Chris' point the Browns did receive Brandon Weeden, Owen Marecic, Greg Little, and Phil Taylor for Julio Jones.

I saw this in the comments section of this silly article. Really good points. http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10927729/nfl-sammy-watkins-impact-not-equal-price-buffalo-bills-paid?fb_comment_id=fbc_250436405160260_250960771774490_250960771774490#f12d2aff14 Christopher Neyenhouse: Would the Falcons trade Julio Jones for Brandon Weeden, Owen Marecic, Greg Little, and Phil Taylor? The Browns did! And that's what happens when you trade back from a great receiver like they did in 2010. Talk about getting fleeced. . . .The real question is, why didn't the team whose #1 receiver may be done for the season, and whose career could go the way of Blackmon, jump at the chance to land a franchise receiver? For the second time in four years the Browns may have fleeced themselves. Only time will tell if the trade pays off but looking at the Players the Browns picked in the Julio Jones trade it really doesn't look like Quantity won over Quality. Not to mention the Bills gave up a lot less Quantity in their trade.

Exactly Trade 2016 1st and the rest of the 2015 draft if you think Winston or Mariota is going to take the team to the promise land.

Is there a link? Great minds think a like. The counter to giving the up 1st in 2015. Is 1.) Winston and Mariota are probably going Top 3 and the Bills are not going to be a 3-13 team in 2014, even worst case. So its not like the Bills would likely be in a position to draft a "Franchise QB" in 2015. Also 2.) A Veteran Free Agent QB has to look at the RBs, O-Line, WRs and defense and say; "Yeah I can make this work."

That's what I was going for, Orakpo pick redeemed. If you are drafting two players at the same position the front office should have to go through the following mental excessive. If I put these two people in a room, lock the door and tell them only one can come out, Who will win the death match? The answer a few years ago would be that Orakpo would rip Maybin's head off. Then that should tell you the who you should pick. Yeah I know the chains are an vogue and cross fit but the videos of Orakpo were at the beginning of the fad. Maybin wasn't using chains. I don't know if he knew where the gym was at Penn State.

Actually they're aren't a lot of Battles. Which is a good thing. You 7/11 staters from last year on offense. With addition in, without a battle, Watkins. Making 8 starting positions in Ink. 1 in Pencil, Kouandjio. RT, LG, and one of the 3 WR slots will change from last year. Manuel, Woods, Goodwin, wood, FJ, CJ, Urbik, Glenn, Chandler all return to their roles. Even if Moeaki or Gregg push for reps Chandler will likely still get significant PT. That kind of continuity in the same system is good for an offense and should give them a jump start on the year. On Defense the same games 7/11 staters are the same. Aaron Williams, McKelvin, Gilmore, Dareus ( if not suspended (dumb-ass)) Kyle Williams, Mario Williams, Kiko. The big change is how the LBs will fit in to the new system. Which has been discussed ad nausium . Not continuity in system but most of the starters on key positions are settled.

What? The job of a sports writer is to entertain people and increase readers. It has nothing to do with accuracy. Its funny you would say that the job of a sportswriter is to be accurate.

Patriots are 20-2 Last 11 years vs the Bills. I'd do whatever I could to keep that team in the division too.