MartyBall4Buffalo

Yeah I mean if it swings at ya, you got no choice but to hit back

Fair enough. They probably do like kelsay/denney. They also really haven't been in a position to add real upgrades at dend. Probably forced more or less into overpaying. I'm just hoping the fluff that comes about kelsay/denney is similar to the fluff about being fine with Anthony Thomas/Fred Jackson before we drafted Lynch.

About as ferocious as kittens. It has less to do with their lack of stats , and more to do, with their lack of physical skill, and being ideal fits for a tampa 2 hybrid.

no thank you

Whisenhunt is just dissapointed he wasn't invited.

I think Early Doucet would be the exact kind of receiver that fits Edwards game as a qb, as well as being the kind of receiver the bills would love. Quick off the line, physical work the middle of the field type. Very willing blocker. As well as great after the catch. Complimentary type wr. The key difference being like you said. The dropoff after Harvey is too big, compared to the smaller dropoff you're going to get from the dropoff from sweed/kelly to say Earl Bennett/Doucet/Jerome Simpson

yikes didn't realize all that stuff. In that case I'll pass. Someone who puts himself in those kind of situations, and repeatedly makes poor social choices. Despite his tremendous skills on the field. I'm far from a choir boy, but I'll pass.

As many as it takes for the Bills to land Brandon Marshall

I'm sure there are. I'd also point out poor lb play. The dropoff in coverage skills especially at mlb. Say what you want but Flecther-Baker was great in that area, despite his height. Losing Clements hurt a lot more then people are willing to admit. Same goes for Ko Simpson. The corner/safety depth was attrocious. Even with those issues though. Even if Stroud turns out to be all that. I don't see Kelsay/Denney as major contributers, or valuable starters. Schobel is over 30, and our only legit pass rusher. I'd like to have some ends, who have excellent closing burst. Not just ends who can get there, if the secondary, and lb's do their job in coverage.

I guess that's the fundamental difference. Some people want a situational pass rusher. I'm hoping for a starter. Which I think Harvey would be by at most mid season. When it again becomes plainly obvious, just how bad the de rotation or kelsay/denney is. Yeah stroud/spencer johnson/mitchell are decent additions. Hardly makes this a strong defense. Nor does it put the bills in a position, where they dont need massive upgrades. This dline needed the same kind of turnover the oline got last season. With at least 3 new starters on the line.

It might help him he is a lanky Sob

I'm not offering my left nut like the last time tipster said there was a possibility of Marshall being traded, but Marshall imho is the next in line of the games great receivers. If it were possible to get him a 2nd would be fair for this guy.

Thank you for pointing this out. Should be framed for the "Lets not draft a de cause there's too much tied up there crowd". I'm thinking regardless of whether or not we go de in the 1st. Kelsay is gone after this year. Denney gives us exactly what Kelsay does, but holds up against the run better. What we need is a real pass rusher.

The stat differential between 06-07 is easily explained. When you take into account the gators had 9 different defensive starters in the 07 season, compared to the 06 season. Losing Dt's Ray McDonald/Steven Harris. As well as De- Jarvis Moss, probably accounts for the 2.5 fewer sacks he had this past year. Although he did finish with more tackles for a loss, and more tackles this year, then he did in 06. The rest of the losses losing guys like brandon siler at lb and reggie nelson in the secondary probably didn't help matters either. As far as the breakdown of it in 06. I think the loss in talent level bears it out. They were worse on 3rd downs in 07 then they were in 06. Allowing opposing offenses to complete 33% of 3rd downs in 06, compared to 41% in 07. About 2 minutes more posession time allowed for opposing offenses. 16 more tds allowed. I imagine you'll be hard pressed to find a team that lost as many starters as the Gators did, and repeat, or exceed their efforts from the previous season. When you're taking into account his overall affect on team pass defense it's not the most concrete argument to make against him. Unless you can find quarterback pressure stats, and hurried throws. Again you have to go back Are Markihe Anderson/Joe Haden/Major Wright/Tony Joiner, giving the effort that say Reggie Lewis/Ryan Smith/Reggie Nelson/Tony Joiner gave. My best assumption would be no. I find it sorta difficult as to measuring what Derrick Harvey you're going to be getting. The one who absolutly destroyed Ohio state in the NC game in 06, or the one who had to work harder for the numbers he achieved this past season, with overall lesser talent. For me it comes down to our current group of ends, just not being very good. Other then Schobel, offenses just don't have to account for either Kelsay or Denney. High effort players sure. Both are poor fits for a tampa 2 defense. I'd rather take a shot, at someone who can be a 8 sack a season guy and a long term option at starter after this year, then be stuck with an anemic pass rush, with 2 guys opposite schobel. Who both lack the closing burst, to apply consistent pressure. Lack the strength to bull rush linemen. Who both have poor technique, with a very limited pass rush repertoire. I wouldn't put Harvey as some can't miss prospect. I think he's a more polished end, then his former teammate Jarvis Moss. Although not as fast. He holds up well against the run, has a very good closing burst. Is very quick off the snap. He has to learn to play with better technique and leverage, but he has natural ability, and quickness that can't be taught. No he's not gonna make our defense amazing, but he's simply a better prospect at a position of need. That will help us accquire the talent to be better on defense. Compared say any of the wide receivers available at 11, would make our offense. Put the choice in front of me. Potential 8-10 sacks a year pass rusher, or Complimentary wr, with a 1st rd pick. 10 times out of 10 You go pass rusher.

Since when does one game make a career? Even bruce smith and reggie white got taken out of games. No I'm not saying harvey is either. I am saying he'd be a drastic upgrade over Kelsay.

Yeah it's not like we only got 26 sacks, and can't afford to drastically improve our pass rush. Let's ignore it, and keep it well below average.

He'd be a tremendous addition. Although I'm not gonna gawk at those stats, as more goes into run defense, then individual matchups, and a number of different factors could be involved, line stunts, gap control, how the olb is playing. dt's etc etc. He's probably the best natural fit for a 4-3 end, in a draft full of tweener potential 3-4 olb types.

Its about damn time. The committee actually voted on something, that didn't drastically favor offensive football. Maybe it's a good step to actually get back on a level playing field. Now only if they'd get rid of the babying the quarterback flags. One day hopefully go back to letting db's be more agressive playing wideouts. Bring back Defensive football.

Id be against drafting him, not because we're set at oline, but right now theres other areas of more importance on this team. Like wr/dline/te/cb. Albert may offer a good trade down though, to help us fill out need positions.

Should put that in the Dr. Mediocre thread who thinks we don't need a te, because the bills haven't historically used one. While ignoring how awful we've been the past decade, and the ever changing defenses that make a good receiving te almost essential to offensive success.

Well there's the fact he was on 3 teams during the 07 season. Detroit/Miami/Atlanta. Hard to imagine he'll suddenly become some really good player.

The Colts have Peyton, Reggie Wayne, Marvin etc. The vikings have a legit reason in having Adrian Peterson as a draw. So I can understand that. What the hell is the draw of Denver @ Oak?

100% agreed. I can't see the guy getting better though. As I really don't see him as anything more then an overpaid depth player. I stand by my prediction that kelsay will be out of a starting job by at most next year, if not this coming year. Ashton Youboty needs to step up. Yeah I give the man the benefit of the doubt, his rookie year. With the death of his mother. That's never an easy situation to deal with. So say last year was esentially his rookie year. Going into this season, if he can't step up to at least be the nickle back. He has to be evaluated, just how much can he contribute. John McCargo. I'm a big fan of McCargo. I liked him a lot in college. When he's on his game, and uses good technique he's a force. Very quick off the snap, and good strength. Has a tendency, to stand straight up, making him and easy one to push back. Doesn't always give 100% effort. This is a big year for him. With the additions of Stroud, and Spencer Johnson. Can McCargo win the starting ut job. Or will he still be nothing more then the wave player, he was last season? We'll see. Angelo Crowell. He's coming up on a contract year. We have drafted Poz, signed Mitchell to 5 years. There's a lot of differing opinions on Crowell. Ranging from underrated, to very good, to strictly average. I place him in the average category. He's not a guy that will kill you. Although he does take bad angles in run defense, and gets ridden out of plays. Solid in pass defense. I think he needs to take his game up another level, or we could be looking at a new starter at slb, in the 09 season.

It's his look that caters to teenage/young college girls. It makes up a large majority of his moronic fanbase. One of the least funniest comedians out there.

8.Don't get me wrong on 8. We didnt lose major offensive/defensive contributers. I still think losing Sam Aiken, and Josh Stamer on st's will hurt a little bit. I think a big part of the bills problem. Is they actually paid too much attention to st's, at the expense of the starting offense/defense. With players who are strictly special teams players. Guys like Justin Jenkins, Wendling, and having Jason Whittle back, may be enough to offset some of the losses. Of guys like Aiken, Haggan, Wire, & Stamer. We'll see. 9. Any good defense you have is about speed. It's not just the cover 2. I just am not convinced this defense is anywhere near having the talent to make the system work. Or at least play it how it's suppouse to be played. Which bring us to your next point. 10. I think Schobel is a fine player. He's good at getting pressure. Despite his lower sack total last season. I remember reading, he actually was near tops in the league in quarterback pressures. Maybe the sack numbers will go up, but outside of Schobel we still have next to nothing in terms of quality pass rushers. Chris Kelsay, really shouldn't be starting. The guy will probably end up as one of those players who finish with a career high of 6 sacks in a season. He didn't do much, when we had Fat Pat, and Big Sam Adams lined up at dt. I don't see his numbers drastically improving, with McCargo, and Stroud. He'll probably average 2-3 sacks at year. He doesn't get many pressures. His closing burst is just bad. He also doesn't hold up well against the run. You pointed it out in point #9. Speed is key to the cover 2. Speed is something Chris Kelsay will never have. He may try hard. It just doesn't cut it. I'd honestly rather see Ryan Denney starting over Kelsay. That's if the Bills don't address de early in the draft. Despite some nice additions to the defense. It is anything but a solid unit. Without more additions this April.