C.Biscuit97

Well, we just drafted two undersized receivers who aren’t nfl caliber imo.

He was throwing for 5,000 yards when guys were struggling to get to 3,000. It was so much harder to pass the ball in the 90s. I know those names and respect the history. I’ll be honest, I really only think about modern Bills. Since Kelly, we might have had the worst qb play in the nfl next to the Browns.

What a low bar haha. And what franchises haven’t had one HOF besides the newer ones? I was thinking the Lions but they had a guy named Bobby Layne I guess.

I think this point is very overrated. The Titans kept Mularkey for Mariota and he was horrible. The Bucs did the same thing for Winston and he regressed. Get the best coach.

The greatest thing about this franchise is the ability to find running backs and cornerbacks. Too bad it’s not quarterbacks. Hopefully, it is changing.

He has Byron Leftwich as his OC. And they averaged 1.5 points less than us and Allen has a great defense that keeps us on every game. They are such different QBs too. But yeah, I definitely thought Rosen would be further ahead than Allen at this point, and the fact it is close, is a tip of the hat to Allen. that said, throwing a party with for a qb with a QBs rating in the 60s is a bit silly. But without a doubt, Allen is a more exciting qb at this point.

He definitely improves with those guys but I still think it is a significant drop off from what Mahomes is doing. I think Mahomes is trying special. He makes those touch crossing passes that few qbs can make. He only runs when he absolutely needs to. also, I’ve seen Mahomes do it before he played for KC. He put up video games numbers and dominated in college. That was another knock I had on Allen. He rarely had monster games in college. And while I’m fairly happy with how he is progressing, the ceiling seems to be 2-3 tds. If the team improves, perhaps that will be raised. Now to flip the script: what do you think the Bills record would be with Mahomes? I think he would benefit from having a top defense instead of one of the worst ones. I do also realize the offensive talent is worse on our team but I believe we would be a playoff spot with him. The same front office that drafted Allen (and please don’t pretend like it was Whaley) traded up to draft Zay. That doesn’t worry you?

So scary that you can’t even spell! ?

I think you underestimating how much Arizona sucks. I also feel like you would work much harder to defend Rosen (how much his oline sucks, Fitz can’t get separation anymore, 1st time Head coach and OC) if we drafted him like you do with Allen. but I definitely expected more from Rosen at this point. But both of these guys have worse numbers than EJ as a rookie, so there’s a long way to go. I hope Allen proves to be the better Josh and #freeEJ

Haha. I do wish there was a way to credit PI for both the qb and wr. They are huge plans and Allen/receivers deserve credit for them. its also what I hate about conservative coaches. The nfl wants you to throw and call penalties. They should take deep shots on almost every series.

You’re right. Allen is the only qb in the history of the nfl to have receivers drop passes. Our receivers aren’t good and Allen isn’t always accurate. It doesn’t have to be mutual exclusive. But a 52.2% completion rate isn’t 100% on receivers and I pray Allen doesn’t thin kthat way either. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232 the dropped passes are holding Bortles back! Again, it’s valid to point out drops. But it’s goes both ways. P.S. the Chiefs are 5th. Imagine Mahomes Adjusted completion %!

Fair points. This is what I’m struggling with 1 - I get told Daboll is a good OC. Shouldn’t a good OC get more than 15 points/ game, no matter that talent? 2 - I think player development is huge. The fact that Zay Jones isn’t more productive is a problem for us. 3 - mullens is their 3rd strong qb, their top two wrs are always injuried, yet he has a 96 QB rating and multiple 300 yards games. Why can’t our offense be more productive? I thought Allen looked super poised and delivered some good footballs. But man, it seems like it’s lot of work for us to score 2 tds.

Zay Jones was a beast in college. And as good as Thomas was, why was the 47th pick? And I think you would agree he’s not the same player on the Jags as he is on the Saints. but as others have said, it’s probsbly in the middle. What do you think? Who makes the other more - wr or QBs? The guys who picked Allen, traded up for Zay and he was drafted higher than the guy at OSU! I’m not a big Zay myself but if him and JuJu switch teams, Zay probably is a lot better (though I do agree JuJu is the far superior player and it’s ehy I wanted him badly in the draft).

Good post and I agree. I definitely agree we need to get Allen better weapons. At the same time, I’ve seen great qbs make average talents into elite players. In theory, I want Allen to do that and he’s done great with Foster. but I’m all for the Trent Edwards’ treatment of having TO and Lee Evans for Allen.

Their passing numbers are very similar. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoseJo01.htm i also think the talent around them is very similar. The Cards oline is terrible, Johnson lacks explosion, and Fitz is the only good receiver they have and he isn’t the same. I will say say that I definitely expected Rosen to be further along than Allen and that clearly isn’t the case. So that’s good on Allen. Long way to go and both will need to get their qb ratings out of the 60s.

Come on KTD. Gordon was a 2nd round pick in the supplemental draft and Dorsett doesn’t even play after being a total bust for Indy. Edelman was an UDFA college qb and hogan played lacrosse. Again, Michael Thomas was picked later than Zay. These guys are elevated because of their qbs. Like i said, Allen has done a great job with Foster. I do think Allen is progressing but I think we just look to blame all the problems on the receivers and it’s a bit unfair. Sorry, I haven’t become a full member of the Allen cult yet. I looking at brochures though. its not all mullens but they found a way to get a lot of production out of an after thought in the draft. Also, Mullens (UDFA) had a very good game beating Seattle where Kittle was their 3rd leading receiver. Honest question, are the 49ers weapons that much better than the Bills? Or are they better at getting more out of their talent?

Who was a 5th round pick who had 700 yards in 4 years in college.

Oh I did. And that was more of a passing comment. But it I am getting a little tired about hearing how terrible our receivers are. Who is Nick Mullens throwing to? The Pats don’t have one receiver picked in the first round on their roster. The Saints have a bunch of nobodies next to Rhomas, who was picked after Zay. At some point, the qb needs to elevate the receivers. That said, Allen seems to have done that with Foster and that’s great to see. But he is far from the only qb playing with questionable talent.

They all did - Caldwell, the Chargers GM, Polian’s son. Polian hooked them all up. The nfl jobs are about who you know. Todd Haley was a college golfer but his dad worked for the Steelers. I feel bad for the coaches that truly grind without a connection.

My god. What a silly premise for a thread. Since I played college football my opinion (it should ) should count more than people who didn’t? What a dumb statement. jim kelly wanted the Bills to draft Tim Tebow. Michael Jordan is considered one of the worst owners in sports. Belichick played D 3 football. Polian played club football. i know it is party time (and I’m happy) that we scored 2 tds to beat the lions. But it’s amazing some of you don’t get why Allen was criticized as a prospect. He wasn’t that good at Wyoming and these type of prospects fail all lthe time. Let’s hope for the best but it’s way too early for a victory lap.

I mean that’s the guy I would want. SM wasn’t my first choice (wanted an offensive guy) but he has had some elite defenses. I would lose my mind as a fan if my team hired Daboll and I saw his resume. As as others have said, if Allen and the offense have a great year (or Polian gets a job because they are friends), he will get head coaching looks. But we score 2 tds a game.

I didn’t go through this whole thread but does anyone have the list for all qbs in this category? also, as a former receiver, if the ball hits your hands, you’re so supposed to catch it. However, some qbs throw more catchable passes than others. You don’t need to throw a fastball every time. Great QBs have the ability to throw the fastball and touch passes.

Yeah, it’s a completely different era now. What Marino did was like Babe Ruth did in the white major leagues. He was so superior to his peers. But when Matt Stafford gets multiple 5,000 yards seasons, maybe it’s not that impressive anymore.

I mean if he can’t, we need a new qb. The league is begging you to get a lot of yards throwing.

I think he should. But that’s mainly because I want to see how a fan base reacts to getting a head coach h who just “led” the second worst offense in the nfl. I’d be thrilled personally.