RuntheDamnBall

But realistically who thought Brady had the talent level until he had proved it, multiple times even? Sometimes it's just about putting in the work and getting the right chance...

Tom brady salutes you. And lots of people think Matt Flynn has the goods. He is at the least thought of as a decent backup. Mark Bulger, matt Cassell, Kurt Warner, and Tony Romo have all been thought of as productive starters in this league. It's true that the league is trending more toward elite passers, but it's also true that great QBs come from all avenues. I am WAY more concerned with the team's ability to evaluate and groom a QB than who fills the shoes per se. The team needs a QB with his head on straight who is prepared to learn and doesn't think he knows or has it all - yet. This is the source of some comfort with fitz and with gailey. Nix has some things to prove yet. They should only be drafting a QB if he is ready to be part of a team - emphasis on that last word.

Matt ryan had a way more impressive college career than gabbert has had, and he stayed in school and started more games. I don't think the two compare.

This is probably one of the most fascinating threads on this board in some time. Thanks a lot for sharing, STL.

Shh, he's rolling. Maybe dude just plays a lot of Madden. Florence is nothing but smart for looking to a career beyond playing football, and to a position that might offer him some perspective on his current line of work. But maybe he should just stay home playing video games or go hang out at strip clubs; I'm sure that'd win him more fans around here.

That graph is pretty helpful. I'd like to see this year's class on that plot, too. It makes me much more wary of Cam and Gabbert at #3, though, I have to say. Third-quadrant guys like these two can be Bradford or Rodgers, or they can be Couch, Alex Smith, or Leftwich.

Ryan Leaf became the face of a franchise. Just sayin'. I am OK with Cam if they really, really believe in him, but "can he be a face of the franchise" should be a question FAR down the list of important qualities we're looking for in our #1 draft pick. To say otherwise is to admit desperation, and such strategies have plenty of potential to backfire. "Can he play?" is the only question I give a damn about.

If Orton had been drafted in the first round everyone would see the insanity concerning the way he's been treated in Chicago and Denver for what it is.

Ry Cooder and VM Bhatt's "A Meeting By the River," Mazzy Star... Astral Weeks was a good one, too.

That's the way you hear it, but you obviously don't listen to a lot of it. That's ok, but the best producers are doing all sorts of amazing and creative programming to create swing and polyrhythms. As has been the case with all black music, that rhythmic complexity is an undervalued asset in white musical culture. That's why it takes an Elvis to show most white people what the greats were already doing. Now I'm not going to call Stevie's work here great, but to dismiss rap music due to taste is one (completely valid) thing. To dismiss its musicality without really critically listening is another, less valid enterprise. My big problem with rap, btw, is the incessant demeaning of women and thematically crass and commercialist lyrics (in mainstream hip hop), and the public's taste for that brand of hip hop. Come up with something new there... There are plenty of underground artists doing just that. Anyway, go stevie and go Bills!

I guess no one can call him gay anymore.

Never let it be said that you don't have a sense of humor!

I don't think we disagree as much as you think on this. My point is, if they don't think that one of these guys is going to be a good starting QB, or if they have but one MAJOR reservation, it's not a risk worth taking. It's not GREAT DL vs. GREAT QB, in my opinion. It's GREAT DL and rolling with the punches at QB vs. being set back years, and ending up with neither the great DL nor the franchise QB you need. Again, if Newton or Gabbert really give them the value they think they need at No. 3 - and I would say if they have a QB ranked top-ten, he's worthy - then do it. But the absolute goal here, if I may take one occasion to be so Jauron-esque, is to NOT MESS THIS PICK UP.

The desire for the best player at No. 3 to be a franchise QB doesn't mean that there is a franchise QB there. If nix and gailey and co see too many red flags to spend the pick on the QBs rated that highly, they are actually doing the team a service by NOT setting the franchise back 5-7 years based on hope alone. If they think newton or gabbert are really worth that pick, that's fine. If both players are down in the late teens in their board, and in taking a QB they'd be passing up a player who can help the team more (and more immediately), they simply shouldn't take a QB at No. 3.

Where does Cam / Cameron fall on your "radar?"

Mental makeup is not "his gamer attitude" - it's his ability, when things actually aren't going right, to withstand the pressure. It's his background and upbringing - which are in fact a bit suspect, in Newton's case, if you've read the papers. It's questions about what he's going to do WHEN there's pain (not if). Will he be able to process a much more complicated offense, and know what his fourth read is - not just his first or second? These are the things I want to know when I'm examining a player's makeup. If the Bills are going into interviews asking: "so, you've won a lot. Can you keep doing that?" I want everyone fired.

You don't want to go that route. He has something that can't be proven to be something. He wins football games singlehandedly, despite having been on a very good D1 team for one season. He just wins, because he has been on a winning team for one D1 season. He has something that can't be measured, but I know he has it. I'll bet also he hates to lose, has swagger and poise, and is ready to play, and just take it one game at a time. You see where we're going here? I have stock in this company that is potentially worth millions. This stock has NEVER ever lost money, and it can't be traded on the market. No one can prove it, but it's actually worth billions in a system that is only peripherally related to the actual stock exchange. *All of these notions carry about as much weight as the unmeasurable intangibles you're citing. Ben Rothinsberger [sic] possesses the following discernable assets and credentials: he can throw very well on the run, he takes a beating but hardly ever has to leave the game, and he was brought up very slowly in a run-first offense with a strong defense. This allowed him to mature into the system that he is in now, which is more pass-heavy. He did not lead his team to that first Super Bowl, though his play has been a big factor [not the only one] in all three appearances. All of these things are way more meaningful than any "IT" factor or some such bullscheisse. I don't want Gabbert and I am skeptical of Newton, but I prefer my football analysis to be rational; I sure as hell hope that the Bills' evaluators are not looking at anything aside from the player's measurables, his history, his mental makeup and ability to process information, and his experience and potential in handling a pro-style offense. Everything else, college wins included, is gravy.

More and more intrigued by this guy, and Mayock's assessment of him only increases my interest.

Have a little girl some time and "thinking he's super douchey" will turn to "I will punch the guy in the !@#$ing jaw if I ever see him, and I don't care how big he is." That has nothing to do with Mike Vick, BTW, and just to do with my own opinion. And basically, what was said above was right. I just meant if you're a big dog-lover, it might bias your opinion one way, if you're a father of a girl, maybe another - among many other indicators... I also said that there were myriad factors involved in potential responses that make a "choose A or B" yield a result that isn't that telling. If that's simplistic to you, I bow to your superior knowledge.

I just don't believe we have the evidence to say that.

Finding it hard to understand why that one was necessary. Also Re: wonderlic scores: I'll bet everyone wishes they drafted Steve Stenstrom (35) over Kerry Collins (30) or Steve McNair (15). Or Bill Musgrave (29) over Brett Favre (22). Noted NFL duds Terry Bradshaw, Jim Kelly and Dan Marino each only scored 15.

Since you are so sure that you were obviously there, please provide your proof. I'm equally sure that guys take advantage of drunk girls all the time, and that Ben could have been doing the same. That doesn't make him any more admirable, and it also doesn't provide me any further proof. The difference is that you're making all sorts of assumptions about the girl and the situation without providing any facts. And unless sexual assault isn't a crime in Georgia, he was in fact accused. Not charged, and not convicted, but you'd have to be firing on two brain cells to believe that every sexual assault results in a case and ensuing conviction. Multiply that times 1000 when factoring in "big famous Super Bowl QB" and "irresponsible drunk girl." Vick did some time and has been contrite. Ben has been accused not just once and now "says all the right things" but has not had to face much aside from media scrutiny and an NFL sanction. Personally, I find it hard to think lesser of the guy who committed the deed against dogs and not humans, and has done everything in his power to atone for the mistakes, vs the guy who abuses women and hasn't had much more than a slap on the wrist as a result of it. JMO.

Gotcha. That's actually helpful. It doesn't cause me any great stress, but I actually would have (initially) taken the thought more seriously knowing it was coming from Chris Brown, who at least has access. And it's always good practice, whether discussing work or play, to cite your sources. Just some food for thought. True! Then again, Brown can verify that it's Dwan's Twitter account, where others might not.

Can anyone explain to me how that's "per Bleacher Report" (which isn't a news organization - it's a collection of VERY amateur blogs), when it's a direct link to a BB.com post from Chris Brown, official lead journalist (team beat reporter, also sketchy on his journalist designation)? Does Bleacher Report actually take this stuff and claim it for its own?

No, of course. Just thinking about how the question might not get a comprehensive read. NW.