RuntheDamnBall

Doesn't matter. They all lost and their chances at the playoffs decrease. The Bills lost badly by letting the game get out of hand with turnovers and with a defense that looked lost. If they turn over the ball four times every week I do indeed expect them to be terrible. If they get no better at running Wannstedt's defense, or if Wannstedt's defense is actually this bad, then sure, they'll be terrible. But there is too much talent and too much invested in the D for me to believe that's true yet. And while Fitz is prone to the ill-advised pick, he tends to learn from his mistakes. Losing Freddy and Nelson are really the reasons to be concerned longer-term. Fitz's play and the defense's ability to rebound will be on watch all year. Again, if you read my post you know I recognize the difference between these teams and the Bills. I simply am saying that mathematically these teams are all in the same boat. We've seen teams that didn't deserve the playoffs as much make it in and go on a run. If I'm going to enjoy this football season, I'm going to hold out that hope and not just sit on a message board and take a giant dump on the team. Some people think that's productive, I think it's boring and childish.

The greatest head-scratcher in a day full of 'em.

Please PM me Tuesday's winning Mega Millions numbers, chief. I'm sure you knew Freddy was going to get hurt today and that Vick and Stafford would throw 7 INTs between them. They looked bad at times against a lot worse teams but I would not wager either of them think the season is over. They've got a sh--load of work to do, but I recall years in which the Giants looked bad, like total underachievers, before coming on late. The Bills have (and have earned) a bad reputation and the forecast doesn't suggest that they'll turn it on for a great playoff run, but if you want to give up, just do it right now so the rest of us can talk football.

I acknowledged the difference in my post, Mr. Smartypants. Divisional loss is bad. They have five more to make up the difference. Lose all those and then everyone is entitled to share their high school-styled dramas about it.

I didn't like how the Bills looked today. They were caught flat-footed, and the most concerning thing (beyond the turnovers, which are always concerning) was the play (or lack thereof) of the defense. That said, this is just 0-1, people. Mario Williams is not yet a $100 million mistake. You will not win $100 million for being the first person to point it out. Fitz looked terrible, but he has looked at turns terrible and terrific before. If this kind of play (with stupid, not gutsy turnovers, and bad reads) sustains itself over a few weeks, you're going to see the Bills make a move. But if they benched Fitz right now, it would be the kind of knee-jerk move that this team has been lambasted for before. Freddy being hurt blows, but CJ looked pretty great minus the fumble. If he can keep his ball-control issues in check, he is going to be a great one. I am far more concerned about losing a big and reliable target like David Nelson, and the fact that TJ Graham for some reason didn't see the field today. The decision-making regarding the WRs may come to hurt this team greatly, and I didn't sense the presence of vaunted gunner Ruvell Martin on the Jets' big punt return. That said, the Saints are 0-1. The Packers are 0-1. The Super Bowl Champion Giants are 0-1. The Bills obviously have a lot more to prove than do these other teams, but posters who are on this board bellyaching and giving up on the season and preparing their "I told you so" missives are like so many rats jumping ship. Give it a rest. It's football, they'll win or they won't, and this was just one lousy game. 0-1. Let's get ready for the home opener and kick some ass next week.

Gailey, fitz, Wannstedt, in that order. My notes on Wannstedt are that the defense generally looked lost, unprepared, and inexcusably out of position. Giving 15 yards off the line of scrimmage to santonio Holmes means he'll probably end up with at least 15 yards. Gilmore got abused all day and had no safety help. Whatever the LBs were doing in passing situations, it sure wasn't working. Fitz was bad in a way we're not accustomed to here. As others (Nick Mendola?) have said, the troubling thing is just how ugly and stupid his mistakes looked. They weren't gunslinger Favre-like mistakes. They were more like JP Losman mistakes.

Chuck Lester gave Ruvell his compromising photos of Ralph on his way out the door. I think the Bills are looking at their roster and seeing better upside from Easley and Aiken, and they know they can just give Roosevelt a call in a pinch because he's local and not on many teams' radar. It's kind of abusive but that's the cost of doing business if you're a fringe NFLer. He has had time on the PS and he's not eligible; otherwise he might be there already. Right now he's the equivalent of the Bills' booty call in desperation.

SPAGZ.

I think whether he amounts to anything or not anywhere else in the league, he was just such a wrong pick for the Bills at the time. Regardless of whomever else was on the board, the last thing the Bills needed was a project specialist-type player who was very, very green for the NFL. I think the Bills drafted like it was baseball there for awhile, selecting guys who were very young with their high picks in hopes of getting more of their prime years in a Bills uniform. Maybin had way too much growing up to do. Factor in that he had personal setbacks, and it was way too much to throw top draft pick expectations at him, especially on a team starving for a pass rush. I still don't view Maybin's chances of success as very high, but if he had been drafted with the Jets or, especially, with the Ravens or Pittsburgh - organizations with some stability, deep talent and a culture of leadership on the D - he might have reached his potential. I would say that would have gone double had he been selected at a more humbling slot in the draft. Hopping onto Dick Jauron's rudderless ship was clearly never going to get him there.

Southern Tier Harvest is quite good. I have really been enjoying most of their offerings. Their Pumking is also great.

I'm hoping his time with David Lee will lead to him being able to put it where fewer defenders have a play on the ball, and to hit timing routes with precision. I do agree with the Cap'n - in crunch time it's nice to see him not shying away from the challenge, but a lot of the reason that a guy like Tom Brady succeeds lies in his ability to lead receivers and his sharp timing. I'd like to see these from Fitzy.

Define "crap all over." Because I think most of us have been very excited to see our guys enter the Hall and get the recognition they deserve. We're also hoping to see more of them get that recognition, like Andre, Kent, and Tasker. I don't think it's irrational or fashionable to discuss why these teams came so close without taking home any hardware. Is that perhaps overdone to a degree? Sure, but I think that's been a prominent attitude from the day they lost Super Bowl XXV, nothing new; the Bills are always not going to be quite good enough for fans until a Super Bowl victory washes that bad taste out. The fact that we haven't even seen the playoffs in 12 years probably makes people more inclined to be more negative, too. I mean, I've made pains to call Marv "among the best," "very, very good," etc etc. I don't know what else I can do to make how I feel clear. Cheerleaders don't really add much to the conversation. Go Bills! Though.

If I were comparing the two as human beings you might be onto something there. I could as easily argue that it's total folly to compare him to one of the top 5 athletes of all time.

I think it's more like Isaiah Thomas - great player (not the best) in his prime, really flawed in his later jobs.

I'm interested in Tyler Wilson.

I think "both good players / space eaters" was what made me infer that. Either way, no big deal. I think your last point is spot-on, but that D. Edwards is more likely to contribute to a playoff team this season.

I think it was a lousy draft made to look worse by the injury issues for Troup and Easley. Ideally speaking, Troup was going to come in and be the NT-type, but another funny thing happened along with Troup getting injured, which was Kyle Williams proving he had talent that was going to keep him on the field no matter what. Carrington confuses me. He disappears but he also shows flashes of talent. Perhaps Wannstedt can find a way for him to succeed and get his technique in line with his athleticism so he can use his size. Spiller was definitely not the right player for this team at that time. He may have been the best player available on pure talent but this team simply didn't need another running back and it's not a slam-dunk like a WR deep team picking up a guy like AJ Green, or Larry Fitzgerald, for example. So, that's sort of mistake #1. I do hold out some hope for Carrington and Moats and wouldn't close the book on them yet. Defensive players can take some time to come into their own - Ted Washington might be my favorite case of this. I think if you have 3-4 duds in a full draft it's excusable. So far, Batten, Calloway, and Levi Brown are certified for that category, and the rest aren't looking super hot. Let's hope Spiller takes his production to another level this season, and that maybe Moats and Carrington prove dependable this year, and not all will be lost.

Yeah, I think that goes without saying, but true.

George Wilson and Fred Jackson say hi, but generally speaking you're right. Brad Butler was also a good pick - you can't always project that a guy will face injuries and lose his desire.

I don't know if I would put Heard and Edwards on the same level. Edwards has produced in the league for a long time. Heard is a bit more on the Spencer Johnson level for me - flashes ability now and then, doesn't distinguish himself enough to start. Both could help out on a 3-4 team though.

I don't know how someone who has been the face of the franchise, has made the Hall of Fame, and was given a job he was not capable of performing can rightly be said to get no respect. He gets plenty of respect, and in the case of getting hired as GM, it happened specifically to "put a respectable face" on a bad front office, regardless of his ability to run the team's affairs. Marv was a fine coach for his era of the NFL, and his Super Bowl record is enough to inform us that he wasn't even close to the best. You can't run with "He's a Hall of Famer" as a reason why he should be respected. He was elected as a sign of respect for his on-field achievements, but that distinction doesn't add to those achievements nor does it remove from question some of his failures. I love Marv; I really do. He was an uncommonly smart man and a well-rounded individual who corralled a group with a lot of differences and took them very far. But he never won the big one and he did tarnish his reputation with his work in the front office. Yes, he brought in Fred Jackson and was part of a team that made some decent draft picks, but you can't describe the Bills during his tenure as being in anything but a holding pattern. They went nowhere when he was supposed to bring stability. He was too trusting of Dick Jauron. His drafts were defined by average DBs and a flashy-but-problematic RB when the team's real needs were visible to any casual observer. So, these are the reasons why Marv's legacy is a mixed one. As a coach he was very good at some things, and in the discussion for being the best. But he didn't do enough in multiple chances to define his team as the very best, and that - in addition to his tenure as GM - is the reason that people will continue to question that legacy.

Don't know about the rest of you, but the switch to and from the 3-4 gives me pause but also impresses me on some other levels. I understand what they were looking for when they did it, but they also weren't really able to assemble the right players with the right kind of coaching to aid in that transition. Bringing in Wannstedt and switching to the 4-3 seems like an admission of failure but it's also a smart way to capitalize on what are arguably the two best players on the defense right now, and to get them on the field. It also opened up the space for Mario to come here. The LBs are still a work in progress and I hope they are truly able to benefit from some stout play in front of them this year. Hopefully we get a better sense in the next year of Buddy's ability to draft for this defense. So far the results have been middling aside from the obvious pick of Dareus.

And again, be mad about the jokers who drafted Lynch (St. Marv, from the other thread). Don't be mad at the guys who traded a RB who, sure, works hard, but has tons of red flags and is one more incident from a year's suspension. Especially when superior talent is still on the roster.

Complain about wasting those low picks when more than a couple better players were drafted around then or later. They can't all be Kyle Williams and they're not all going to be Tank Carder, either. You're hoping to get quality depth from your round 4-7 guys, with an occasional project with star qualities and some clear negatives. I'll be worried that the Bills drafted Mark Asper if six guys drafted later than him turn out to be significant NFL contributors. Even then, the Bills hit often on their UDFAs and I am fine with that rate of success from their day 3 / UDFA players. They've gotten the likes of Stevie, Freddie, Kyle Williams, George Wilson, and David Nelson while spending two draft picks and three lottery tickets among them. It's tough to not see better results from the draft, but it's only really tough if the guys whom they kept instead fail.

Well, if we're talking about his quote with reference to his talent-evaluation bona fides, it bears mentioning. Marv also had 12 rounds of draft picks to work with in his era. It's clear that a lot of what he might say doesn't necessarily have bearing on today's NFL. Sorry if I touched a nerve.