RuntheDamnBall

Of course. I'm just pointing out that this is coming from a rather suspect person.

FWIW, Mike Pouncey also might be OK with a few things that the general public finds despicable, like Aaron Hernandez, for example.

That is interesting. Also interesting is the fact that this guy can't tell the whole insider's story of what has transpired over the past year when he hasn't been on the team. He was around Martin and Incognito for exactly one preseason, not the season that followed nor any of this year. Not dismissing his story outright, but it's hard to say as the headline does, "he never bullied him" when there is incomplete information. But it ends in August of 2012.

Well... we couldn't make that throw last time because the line had made it to the QB before we had the chance. When there wasn't pressure, there was terrific coverage. Hopefully next time it's a little bit different.

I think that last point is very believable. It's also possible that Martin is flighty. What we don't know... is a lot. The VM Incognito left is real, and if nothing else, unprofessional. But maybe we'll see how this all shakes out.

So we shouldn't be quick to believe one side, but we should be quick to believe these Dolphins players?

So, teach kids media criticism in school. This is still about us and our willingness to buy the message, not the medium.

You're surprised?

Media blaming is like shooting fish in a barrel. The media don't work like this- they work for US, a public that is generally willing to follow the straightest line to "the truth."

I do find myself agreeing with you on this one. It also reminds me of when Schobel dragged out his "I'm going to retire, but maybe not" saga and it handcuffed the team.

I'm going to preface this by stating that I have no idea what Martin's particular outlook is in terms of mental health. So, it shouldn't be read as a statement about him. But when I read people's statements here, I'm reminded of something: Mental health has such a stigma attached to it, whereas we should try at all costs to treat it as we would if the person had a broken leg, or a heart condition, or anything else that required medical attention. People want to make issues with mental health seem like something they're not - someone is "crazy," switched on or switched off, not like us. It could be any of us. I don't know much about him, either, but Richie Incognito has been as much (if not more) in need of mental health care as Jonathan Martin, and has had counseling. However, I haven't seen anyone examining it through this lens. We simply reduce him to just the kind of a--hole that people in the world have to "man up" and "deal with." I was bullied, too, and I stood up for myself several times, but after awhile I just stopped engaging it and found realms of interest that were more interesting to me, where I wasn't ostracized. You know what that also did for me? It killed what had been a life-long enthusiasm for sports until I found other friends in college who had similar backgrounds. I fully expect someone to call me a "kitty" for thinking of this, and newsflash: I don't give a f--- if that's what you think. Try thinking about the people behind the social interactions both close to you and those in your realm of public interest. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/miami-dolphins-richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-conflict-is-a-complex-nfl-culture-issue-110413 Interesting because it mentions a former Stanford teammate (Trent Edwards? -- maybe not, different eras) and is by our own former Bill Coy Wire.

STOP IT WITH YOUR FACTS

What I want to know is can a one-year-old play backup LG? We're thin at the position.

And with that I submit that the same staff that selected Incognito as a leader is still in place. How many players are afraid to confront the issue? To add to this, I think that the kinds of players who are going to support Incognito are going to be the more outspoken ones. If Martin didn't want to speak out about this, why would another teammate? Also, in-season, you're probably not going to be that sympathetic to a guy who walked out on you -- even if you think he's right. You still have a paycheck to earn, and you're still in position to fight for the playoffs. I'm sure that doesn't reflect well. Ricky Williams is a guy I'd have wanted on my team, so I just feel differently on the matter. He's an enlightened guy who is probably too smart for the game. Martin may be, too.

I know, Chewie. I know.

Ah, but right there - while we're talking history: how many teams end up needing 4 QBs in the course of a regular season, while also having lost another one for the season in training camp? Look, the opinion of the FO and coaching staff is not far from your own. Tuel didn't cut it in Cleveland, and as such the team swiftly decided to bring in two guys who had been primary backups in the past (Dixon and Flynn). They had also traded for another QB and elevated him from the PS. They obviously see enough in Tuel on an everyday basis to decide that they don't want to part ways with him. They never ever viewed starting him as an ideal scenario and admitted he was a PS guy, but his preseason play and circumstance forced their hands. Once he sh-- the bed in Cleveland, he became their third option (with EJ not available). Really, what else is there to discuss here?

Oh, God, this just jumped the shark in a major way. I do find the "just defend yourself" crowd disingenuous. You have a recognized and handpicked team leader facing off against a teammate (coincidentally of color). How is that going to play out in the public eye, let alone in the locker room. It's a quick step to "this guy's a thug," etc. Already people are picking on his sexuality, his mental health, his toughness with the player given zero chance to represent himself in public. The better man doesn't engage this kind of idiot. I'm sorry, this isn't a playground, and while, yes, you want to be tough on the field, you shouldn't have to fight your own teammates. Anyone who thinks that makes a better locker room is misguided at best. Seconded.

But I want the more expensive vetrun Brady Quinn of today, not the cheaper Brady Quinn of the future. It's about leadership and such.

The kinds of guys you've identified - Carr, Vince Young -- are/were free agents. They can choose whether or not to sign with a team. So, it's not a one-way street. You have to have player agreement with the team. Are you willing to spend $2M a year on David Carr? That was one of his most recent contracts. As for some of the others, we don't know what VY was like behind the scenes but people at OBD do. They may not want a guy like that around EJ Manuel. You have to evaluate every player and situation and see if it's right for a team that is building for the long term. We'd like to win games this year but I'd rather they find out if Tuel or Lewis are potential Frank Reichs in the making. Even Dixon is a reasonable pickup that some of us were calling for in early Sept.

[/thread]. Lock it and close it, mods.

Garrard is as busted up as an Atlantic City streetwalker, and LOLQuinn. C'mon, man. In a season where you don't yet have all the weapons, and a lot of your primary ones are under 25, having Tuel as your primary backup isn't a sin, it's just an unfortunate circumstance. Kolb and TJ were the plan; Kolb getting a concussion was not part of that plan -- and probably one the team should have accounted for. It ends there. The Bills had what they needed and made a good-guy move that backfired.

Given the circumstances, letting Jackson go is the only decision that we have any right taking issue with (IMO). I don't much like Kolb, but what else was out there on the market? They've really done due diligence and they made moves that in isolation felt like the right ones for the team: 1) bring in a couple of veterans, let them duke it out in spring, keep one that you like -- let the other one catch on with another team (turns out to be a mistake) 2) See promising play from the rookies, hold onto both because you don't want to lose one. 3) Veteran from #1 faces worst-case scenario. Bring in a couple of journeyman to stabilize the situation (well, more like stopping a LOT of bleeding) = Leinart and later, Flynn. 4) Bring in young vets with very little tread on their tires when anointed rookie starter gets hurt (Lewis, later Dixon). 5) See that rookie #2 is in over his head, adjust and bring in young veteran. 6) Young veteran performs capably but gets hurt, stuck with UDFA rookie #2 again. All of their decisions subsequent to Jackson's release have had to be reactive ones. That is the only one where they were not competing on the open market for what was left at the bottom of the barrel. Consider this near-catastrophic QB situation: 1 QB out for season and possibly career, QB of the future's development stunted by several injuries, forced to start 2 practice-squad caliber QBs. That they are 3-6 and have been competitive in almost every game is a miracle, and a testament to a fairly impressive performance by a coaching staff that is also young, learning and simply destined to make some mistakes along the way. Look at it another way. If they were 3-6 with Manuel starting every game but with the same game results, I think we'd be, maybe, modestly disappointed but buoyed by the fact that this team is not too far away and developing a good QB. Tuel does not have "future NFL starter" written all over him, of this I am certain. But they drafted signed him with the idea of developing a backup. If they truly believe he is capable of that -- and based on this last game against a tough defense I think he is capable of managing a game and stealing a few big plays -- I don't think you can really blame this staff. We all want the playoffs, but the next best thing we can ask for is a season of great growth and I think we're getting that, while this year's rookie crop has the chance to be one of the team's greatest draft classes.

Since that QB is probably someone in his coke-fueled imagination and is really an underage hooker, most likely yes.

This is EXACTLY what I'm walking about.