Fake-Fat Sunny

Oops! It kept telling me error and I simply resent it way to many times. Now I can see why other repetitive posts have come up several times on this server and I promise to try to not do it again.

One of the neat things for me about sports is that despite too much watching of sports over the years (at least from my wife's perspective) I often see something I have nevetr seen before. This brings me to WM's use of the stiff arm. Obviously I have seen this tool used lots of times and it is a standard tool for good backs. However, I can't remember seeing anyone use it as well as consistently as WM. Having seen some of the best over the years particular plays stick out from time to time, but I have never seen a player employ it so much and so well that there is some singular replay if him using it at least once virtually each and every game. Yesterday, he went on a sweep around the right side and some Cleveland player came into range and WM simply put him down and cruised aroundthe corner. My favorite this year was a game in which an opponent hit him out of bounds and my heart went to my throat as he had to go to the sideline for treatment. Yet, he not only reappeared to play, but on a sweep stiff-armed the same idiot who hit him late and knocked the idiot out of the game with an injury from the vicious stiff arm. I look forward to the media focusing on this skill and putting together a best of WM stiff arms tape. He really is one of the best, if not the best i have ever seen at this skill.

Don't worry, be happy. The key to replying to your rant is your own first sentence. Right now is right now like or not. Starting Drew is or only option for our remote shot at the playoffs which is what we are playing for right now. The future is important, but the futur is merely the future right now. Consideration should be given to developing our QB of the future, but quite frankly as long as we are winning by blow-outs (as we have done the last four weeks) JP is getting useful game experience AND we are keeping out faint playoff hopes alive. There is ample time until next season and reality can and likely will guide us in our choices then. TD and MM's jobs and reps will be determined most by reality than by woulda, coulda, shoulda. If they judge JP as being the second coming of Brady, they will sit Bledsoe so fast it will not even be funny. If they judge JP as possibly being the second coming of Brady, they will judge the team's performance as determining whether he gets a chance to test this. If the team is losing and JP looks ready, i think their pride and their jobs force them to make the switch even if the losses are not Bledsoe's fault in the view of any outside fans. I think the rock and a hard place they have been in was that the team wasn't winning back in the 0-4 and 1-5 days, but JP wasn't and still isn't ready. Fortunately, they have built a team where it doesn't matter whether Bledsoe is playing lights out or poorly for us to win. Wait til pre-season and see how the team does.

Don't worry, be happy. The key to replying to your rant is your own first sentence. Right now is right now like or not. Starting Drew is or only option for our remote shot at the playoffs which is what we are playing for right now. The future is important, but the futur is merely the future right now. Consideration should be given to developing our QB of the future, but quite frankly as long as we are winning by blow-outs (as we have done the last four weeks) JP is getting useful game experience AND we are keeping out faint playoff hopes alive. There is ample time until next season and reality can and likely will guide us in our choices then. TD and MM's jobs and reps will be determined most by reality than by woulda, coulda, shoulda. If they judge JP as being the second coming of Brady, they will sit Bledsoe so fast it will not even be funny. If they judge JP as possibly being the second coming of Brady, they will judge the team's performance as determining whether he gets a chance to test this. If the team is losing and JP looks ready, i think their pride and their jobs force them to make the switch even if the losses are not Bledsoe's fault in the view of any outside fans. I think the rock and a hard place they have been in was that the team wasn't winning back in the 0-4 and 1-5 days, but JP wasn't and still isn't ready. Fortunately, they have built a team where it doesn't matter whether Bledsoe is playing lights out or poorly for us to win. Wait til pre-season and see how the team does.

Don't worry, be happy. The key to replying to your rant is your own first sentence. Right now is right now like or not. Starting Drew is or only option for our remote shot at the playoffs which is what we are playing for right now. The future is important, but the futur is merely the future right now. Consideration should be given to developing our QB of the future, but quite frankly as long as we are winning by blow-outs (as we have done the last four weeks) JP is getting useful game experience AND we are keeping out faint playoff hopes alive. There is ample time until next season and reality can and likely will guide us in our choices then. TD and MM's jobs and reps will be determined most by reality than by woulda, coulda, shoulda. If they judge JP as being the second coming of Brady, they will sit Bledsoe so fast it will not even be funny. If they judge JP as possibly being the second coming of Brady, they will judge the team's performance as determining whether he gets a chance to test this. If the team is losing and JP looks ready, i think their pride and their jobs force them to make the switch even if the losses are not Bledsoe's fault in the view of any outside fans. I think the rock and a hard place they have been in was that the team wasn't winning back in the 0-4 and 1-5 days, but JP wasn't and still isn't ready. Fortunately, they have built a team where it doesn't matter whether Bledsoe is playing lights out or poorly for us to win. Wait til pre-season and see how the team does.

Don't worry, be happy. The key to replying to your rant is your own first sentence. Right now is right now like or not. Starting Drew is or only option for our remote shot at the playoffs which is what we are playing for right now. The future is important, but the futur is merely the future right now. Consideration should be given to developing our QB of the future, but quite frankly as long as we are winning by blow-outs (as we have done the last four weeks) JP is getting useful game experience AND we are keeping out faint playoff hopes alive. There is ample time until next season and reality can and likely will guide us in our choices then. TD and MM's jobs and reps will be determined most by reality than by woulda, coulda, shoulda. If they judge JP as being the second coming of Brady, they will sit Bledsoe so fast it will not even be funny. If they judge JP as possibly being the second coming of Brady, they will judge the team's performance as determining whether he gets a chance to test this. If the team is losing and JP looks ready, i think their pride and their jobs force them to make the switch even if the losses are not Bledsoe's fault in the view of any outside fans. I think the rock and a hard place they have been in was that the team wasn't winning back in the 0-4 and 1-5 days, but JP wasn't and still isn't ready. Fortunately, they have built a team where it doesn't matter whether Bledsoe is playing lights out or poorly for us to win. Wait til pre-season and see how the team does.

Don't worry, be happy. The key to replying to your rant is your own first sentence. Right now is right now like or not. Starting Drew is or only option for our remote shot at the playoffs which is what we are playing for right now. The future is important, but the futur is merely the future right now. Consideration should be given to developing our QB of the future, but quite frankly as long as we are winning by blow-outs (as we have done the last four weeks) JP is getting useful game experience AND we are keeping out faint playoff hopes alive. There is ample time until next season and reality can and likely will guide us in our choices then. TD and MM's jobs and reps will be determined most by reality than by woulda, coulda, shoulda. If they judge JP as being the second coming of Brady, they will sit Bledsoe so fast it will not even be funny. If they judge JP as possibly being the second coming of Brady, they will judge the team's performance as determining whether he gets a chance to test this. If the team is losing and JP looks ready, i think their pride and their jobs force them to make the switch even if the losses are not Bledsoe's fault in the view of any outside fans. I think the rock and a hard place they have been in was that the team wasn't winning back in the 0-4 and 1-5 days, but JP wasn't and still isn't ready. Fortunately, they have built a team where it doesn't matter whether Bledsoe is playing lights out or poorly for us to win. Wait til pre-season and see how the team does.

Don't worry, be happy. The key to replying to your rant is your own first sentence. Right now is right now like or not. Starting Drew is or only option for our remote shot at the playoffs which is what we are playing for right now. The future is important, but the futur is merely the future right now. Consideration should be given to developing our QB of the future, but quite frankly as long as we are winning by blow-outs (as we have done the last four weeks) JP is getting useful game experience AND we are keeping out faint playoff hopes alive. There is ample time until next season and reality can and likely will guide us in our choices then. TD and MM's jobs and reps will be determined most by reality than by woulda, coulda, shoulda. If they judge JP as being the second coming of Brady, they will sit Bledsoe so fast it will not even be funny. If they judge JP as possibly being the second coming of Brady, they will judge the team's performance as determining whether he gets a chance to test this. If the team is losing and JP looks ready, i think their pride and their jobs force them to make the switch even if the losses are not Bledsoe's fault in the view of any outside fans. I think the rock and a hard place they have been in was that the team wasn't winning back in the 0-4 and 1-5 days, but JP wasn't and still isn't ready. Fortunately, they have built a team where it doesn't matter whether Bledsoe is playing lights out or poorly for us to win. Wait til pre-season and see how the team does.

Cliffnotes begin: At any rate, if the price is right Denney certainly remains a Bill in my mind as he has played adequately as a back-up LDE and most of the disappointment is actually fans having unreasonable expectations for a player at his skill level whom TD had to reach for to fill a need because he was doing other stuff which ended up with us getting WM. Cliffnotes end. I think you and spidey are right to flag the numerous post which rate Denney a bust. He is a bust to the extent that he is a disappointment, but this probably says as much about the non-football hopes and overassessment of us fans than it does about Denny's play. I think the Bills fanbase is deeply disappointed in him because our expectations were based on us being fans and wanting and foolishly expecting every 2nd reounder to be as productive as Thurman Thomas and even every 7th rounder to be as good as A. Reed. Teams do catch this lightening in a bottle from time to time (unless they are AZ or Cleveland), but often and usually don't. In fact, it is a testimonial to TD having a extremely strong record as the leader of our draft team that the Bills show some pretty remarkable results compared to the rest of the league in his brief time (for draft comparison purposes) of being here. Overall my assessment of Denny is thus: 1. 2002 Draft- The Bills had a clear need for an OL player and TD correctly took MW who has disappointed until this season but was as good or a better chice than McKinnie with our pick. With his second choice DE was a clear need because TD had stupidly hired GW who stupidly switched us to a 4-3 from Cottrell's effective 3-4 at the same time Wiley, Hansen, Washington and even BS were leaving. We needed a DE (or at least a DT) bad but with our second pick he had an unexpected shot at Jake Reed which proved to be a great pick initially because Reed was so productive as a rookie in the high-flying pass happy Bills O that year with Bledsoe, Moulds and Price. This proved to be a great move in total as because even though Reed has since disappointed and failed to step up to replace Price, it was getting Reed which allowed us to let Price go and we received the draft pick which turned into Willis McGahee for all this shifting. This left us with a huge DE need and our third pick to fill it. As best as i can tell there were two things important about this task 1. Denney was the best DE propsect on the board at this time (if there was someone better then give us the name- my guess is that there was some UDFA or low pick who has played better than Denney at LDE but this would be hindsight as I think Denney was rated the best available by a good chunk at the time. and 2. Pittsburgh was going to pick Denney unless we paid the cost of jumping ahead of them. As it was, TD played it just right as he arranged a deal which was not insubstantial but not huge of giving up a 4th to jump ahead of Pittsburgh who was on the phone with Denney. TD played it so the deal was announced so late that Pitts could not outflank us and he got the personal pleasure of sticking it to his former team. If Denney were lower rated, or if TD had gone out of our way to jump ahead of Pittsburgh to take a non Bills need this would have been bad, but it wasn't so I have no problem with this. 2. 2002 Season- Denney disappointed big time as he proved to need help with the details of DE play and how he used his leverage and body that he was not even worthy of activation most of the season. It happens that a rookie is not a vet yet and cannot contribute while he learns the game, but Denney actually showed even less as a rookie as he not only didn't contribute but he was not even good enough to play. He was a bust by anyone's measure and the Bills (and Pittsburgh) miscalculated how much he would give as a rookie since one of his attributes was that due to huis missionary service he was older and would take well to development. 3. 2003 Season- Denney really stepped it up a notch because not only was he now ready to play, but in fact he proved ready to be a starter. A reasonable question would be whether he wwas starting simply because we were so bad on the DL or did he really step it up a notch from his inactive output. The first was reasonable to assume as the Bills decided to draft Kelsay even though we spent high draft resources on LDE the year before. However, I judge the second point to be the true one as the D as a whole turned out to be very productive with Denney in there as it ranked in the top 5 statistically in the league. In terms of specifics, Denney was not the sackmaster we had gotten used to with Bruce, but facts are facts and the D was productive with Denney as starter. Specifically Denney learned as an athlete to use his body and get proper leverage so he was not easily defeated by a vet opponent. Further, Denney proved to be fairly mobile as an athlete and given his large height and wingspan the run blitz was made for him as he demonstrated the ability to do good middle zone coverage and free up an LB be make an unexpected blitz. He was not good enough as he has not been enough of a rush threat to suck the OL his way freeing lanes for an LB in the run blitz, but he has able to be an important part of a run D where even the best RBs find it tough to get 100 yards and he is a pass coverage demon which allows LBs to shoot the gap. 4. 2004 season- He was surpassed by Kelsay who has developed a second rush move with greater utility than Denney and is stronger on the bull rush (asseen in his sack yesterday that forces the OL to shift his way. Still we are light at DE where Schobel, Kelsay and Denney have to man the 2 positions and we are one ding away from Denney or someone having to start every down. Denny apparently has taken to the MM way that Bills are football players first and position players second. Thus it was great to see him comfortably use his athleticism to get some TE time yesterday where we have a huge need due to season ending injury to Campbell and Euhus. One of my very few disappointments from yesterday us that Moorman was not able to get off more of a pass on the muffed KO because Denney was his target and it would have been great to see him get a TD (I assume he did not pull a Peters and announced himself as a TE to the refs).

Well stick a fork in 'em many of TSWs most certain posters are officially done. What's your nominee for the football notions most recently shown to be stupid by the Bills play in their recent run. Nothing isproved for the team yet, as it clearly ain't over until its over regarding the playoffs, but there have been many comments stated with such flat out certainty on TSW that clearly have nothing to do with the reality of events that they deserve some notice. We're certainly almost all guilty as I must admit after the NE debacle I was merely arguing against those who wanted to cut Bledsoe yesterday that we had to wait until June of next year to cut him, but I admit that I was wrong and it is clear to me that Bledsoe will not only remain a Bill in 2005 but its a good thing because it removes a lot of the pressure to only have JP mop-up because despite some good signs he is not ready to start from what I've seen. My saving grace is that outside of my premature willingness to cut Bledsoe, I have beena pretty true believer in a lot we have done and even the things I had doubts about I certainly did not have the certainty some have had to advocate positions which are now pretty clearly wrong. There are some obvious targets like many of ICE's rantings but the following are my favorites of things which I challenge posters to show their strength and toughness by admitting they were wrong and saying how they would like their crow served: 1. Cut Troy Vincent, my buddies in Philly say he is too old and can't play and is a malingerer anyway. -'m still debating whether he looked worse on his sack, his INT, or his fumble recovery. 2. Shift MW to guard, he can never deal with speed rushers and we need help at guard we can't find elsewhere. -JMac did hint at this, but I think he said this to fool MW into being the player he has proved to be prior to his injury. H obviously fooled a few posters as well 3. Start JP now -Though I have backed off the idea of starting him now if he is ready because the Bills have shown they can win going away even with marginal QB play, JP has really demonstrated to me that despite showing some good stuff like evading a tackle and running for a 1st down today he is not ready to start yet. One would think that getting injured in practice would have taught this cocky player that he needs to protect himself, but his dive and hit the tackle for a couple of extra yards which were totally meaningless as he clearly had the first down indicates to me that he does not have the mental savvy to match his great athletic abilities. Add to that the lack of command of the game and huddle he showed with the delay of game penalty last time (at least he simply blew a TO today when he lost track of the clock) and I think mop-up duty is about right for him right now. At any rate, our meager playoff hops might well be a goner right now if we had thrown in the towel and gone with the thrid stringer to start at QB.

I think Sunday's Cleveland game should provide some good grist for thinking for those who insist that starting is the ONLY way to develop a QB. I think the game Sunday offered the following events to take careful note of: 1. JP clearly demonstrated that you need not start to play and to play in learning situations- The 9 minutes plus of mop-up duty he had provided several useful experiences for his development: A. First and foremost he took the team on a drive which scored a TD and did exactly what needed to be done in the game situation which was to burn clock and increase the lead. Nothing suceeds like success and his ability to lead the team to this outcome and suceed will not only instill further confidence in him but confidence in his teammates that he can lead them. If every game ended up like his performance in NE he may learn things all rookies need to learn but confidence in him will be set back alot. I'm glad to see him get his feet work in these positive mop-up situations. B. The concept which some have had that all he did was hand-off is the thing which shows a lack of understanding of the game and development. It was interesting to hear some of the former QBs who are now pundits talk about something they actually know about which is QB development. Folks like Phil Simms and Marino remarked in relation to the learning experiences Eli Manning is going through that one thing he will get from his debacles is that he will begin to learn to play, see things and analyze at NFL speeds. Losman is getting this same experience as other rookies but he is getting it in easier to manage doses and situations. Some posters have noted how good Losman looks with play fakes and other QB tasks even on the hand-offs. This is a good sign and I love to see Losman using this gametime/practice that way. C. For those who are advocates of playing as the ONLY way to do things, I'd ask who had a better day of learning today, JP or McCown. McCown certainly got more minutes but things got so bad in terms of him being shellshocked his HC pulled him (though he had to put him back in). Does anyone seriously argue this was a better game for McCown than for JP simply because McCown played more. D. Garcia's brief stint unfortunately showed how dangerous the QB job can be, This risk is no reason not to play to win, but it does raise the question about the intelligence of simply sticking someone in to learn rather than to win because of the injury risk. If anything, the one failing I would say of JPs game today was that rather than bailing out after he had picked up the necessary yardage for the first down on his great evasion of the tackle and run, he put his head down and took a hit for a couple of meaningless yards. I am glad he is a gutsy guy and will love it when he risks his body for needed yardage, but until he demonstrates that he has learned the lesson to protect our investment he should not start. Still this was a good day as we saw the best thing about this team is that they can win going away even with lousy QB play.

I agree with those who theorize that this move was intentional by yo schoold JP that a player must be ready to play and contribute anytime he has the uniform. The thought is simply unsubstantiated theory on my part, but the equally unsubstantiated theory that MM put Losman in based on some spur of the moment thought seems even more unlikely to me than MM having a reason for this move. Guessing the reason why he might think teaching JP a bit by throwing him in would be even further unsubstantiated from my point of view. It is to be hoped that it was not because JP was not taking the game seriously enough in terms of doing the learning he could do even with the injury. However, JP said himself after the game that he is now taking things more seriously and it shows with his play in his last two mop-up appearances.

I also thought that he looked pretty in control rather simply frightened or panicked during his appearance. The fact that he put his head down and took a hit for a couple of meningless yards after he had done the right thing in picking up the 1st down was his major mistake of the day. Its unfortunate that he still hasn't seemed to learn his lesson or views himself as having something to prove with displays of this type, but it is one of the lessons which he will need to show he has mastered before he has proved himself ready to start a game. Being tough is a great attitude to show, but being stupid in showing he is tough for a couple iof meaningless yards after he got the 1st down is just poor QB work. I think he will develop this over time, but this along with his lack of command of the game as shown by a delay of game the last time he appeared and some lousy ball handling when he was thrown into the NE games are simply evidence to me that he needs a bit more practice snaps and work at mop-up time before an extended game appearance is likely to do him more good than harm to his development.

I think you're being too harsh in the negative judgements on Henry and the passing game. His first year, like many rookies he struck me as having problems with the blitz pick-up, but like many players his skills improved as he played a bit and I judged him as not being stellar like TT was or Centers could be, but judged him to be adequate in the fairly adequate pass happy offenses with the less than fleet-footed Bledsoe in 2002 and 2003, I find it hard to judge him as a liaility when the the passing game was productive in 2002 and RB blitz pick-ups was far from the only problem with the O last year an really not seen as the lead problem. Add to this that your indictment seems to run counter to the facts of Henry's production in 2002 when he is credited with over 40 receptions. I don't think he would be thrown to enought for him to get 3-4 receptions a game if he was such a liability that he was dropping a bunch that was thrown his way. In 2003 his receptions dropped to 25+. but my recollection was that I was pissed at Kevin Killdrive for not running a diverse enough offense as we went to the RB pass to Gash and Henry too little in my minds. Like most players, Henry has a couple of drops he should have caught, but KG's problem in my mind was the same one you are making that given the first drop this weapon was removed from out gameplan. 2004 saw a bad petrformance by both TH and WM on blitz=pick-ups early in the season and Henry seemed to give up on being both a productive runner or a productive pass catcher once it became clear to him the Bills were going in another direction with starting RB. That being said, i think he has demonstrated effective ability as a rusher in 2002 and 2003 and effective production as a receiver in 2002 which demonstrates to me that rather than being a liability in all cases he can do that job.

The borders are interesting because in general as you enter you are not considered a citizen by either side until you prove it. Thus, you do not have the rights that you have as a citizen untuil the border official grants it. Generally this means that though they are under orders to treat everyone courteously, they are under an even stronger order to protect their country, thus your rights truly begin and end where the customs/immigration agent says they do. We ;ive in Buffalo and my wife's Dad has a cottage in Canada where he spends the entire summer and thus we go up there with some frequency. Dad (and his son who takes his kid up there frequently) have the NEXUS pass which gives them pre-approval and thus they have a shorter faster lane to whip through on their daily sojourns across the borderand by just showin that each individual in the car has a NEXUS pass they don't even have to talk with anyone. We also go over with semi-frequency to go to the best Chinese restaurant east of the Bay Area, Ming Teh. Canadian custims checks all license plates by computer as you drive up and we usually get friendly perfunctory questions from the guardwhich we casually answer and off we go. In 15 years of crossing both ways as many as 24 times a summer I have only been told to go to US customs once and then because we were sailing across Lake Ontario and when my wife got seasick on top of a cold we rented a car in Trenton Ontario for me to drive her back and two US citizens driving a car with Canadian plates needed some explaining. Things have tightened up since 9/11, but the key things seems to be for the driver and passengers to be calm and you can whisk through with few hassles, sometimes even without need of even a driver's license on the Canadian side, though having a passport with you any time you leave the country is a good idea.

Nod- Thanks for the ideas. If only if were so easy as making a difficult but simple assessment how good a player is (and you hope he will be if he is not injured in the game, slips in the tub. or his gradmother doesn't die and he reacts badly to it as happened with MW) then building a winner could easily be conceived. However, it is even more complex than this simple reality as the choices who to invest in and keep are even further complicatedby the CBA, who else is available, who else on the team gets struck down or performs etc. The thing which strikes me as funny is that many fans have taken to indicting TV as a malingerer or a stiff as a player in my view simply because they and I have been made all hot to trot and excited by McGee's kick return performance. Excitement about TM as a return guy is certainly warranted by his play. However, as outstanding as it is, it does not mean that he will ever be the performer want at CB, or mean that TV is a stiff. I make the following judgments on your comments- 1. TM- I would not extend him, nor if I were him would I want an extension. Obviously, if TM were willing to give the Bills the sweetheart deal Hwnry gave them because he wants some upfront money then resign him on the cheap, or if TD is kidnapped by aliens and he offers a sweetheart deal to TM then he should resign. However, neither party us likely to maximize their benefit by extending now. From the Bills perspective TM is signed cheaply through the 2006 season as many mid round draft picks are. However, even if TM were to play out his contract he would become a resticted free agent rather than an unrestricted free agent. In order to sign him an opponent would have to give TM a huge deal and part with significant draft resources for the Bills to get him. This has been done as big bucks Dan Snyder was willing to give up money and picks to NYJ to sign Morton. The Morton cas is similar to the McGee case in that he offers an outstanding KR value which might make him worth such an investment. However, most owners are not Dan Snyder (and cap constraints will soon make Dan Snyder unable to be the Dan Snyder of the past). Add to that a CB being important but less of a gamebreaker than WR Morton as a position player and TM getting some good INTs but still struggling to master the CB slot and the Bills have a couple of years before TM is a UFA and a real danger to leave the Bills, In that time, injury could easily lay him low or opponents will do as Chiefs opponents have done and developed ways to neutralize TM as has happened with Dante Hall. It is c;ear from the likely to make the playoffs position the Jets are in and impossible to make the playoffs even in a weak NFC position theSkins are in who benefitted more from the RFA reach which would be analagous to a TM signing. I don't extend if I am TM because a team would have to overlook my lack of leverage to sign me to a deal I think is worthwhile. 2. Clements- yes I lock him up and unfortunately have to pay Winfield/Vikes money to do so. We cannot afford to lose yet another CB and even if he is rarely challenged not because he is so good, but because McGee is an easier target, he is a definite gamebreaker in terms of his punt returns and his ability to get INTs and in particular turn them into TDs as he has several times in his career. 3. It would be great for continuit sake to resign Jennings, but given what the market had provided LTs in the past, I would not give him enough money to likely keep him here is Arthur Blank wants him to protect Michael Vick at the same level which saw him give too much FA money and a draft pick to the Bills to get Vick Peerless Price. Teams have gotten into the habit of investing top 10 OL money into LTs such that 8 of the top 10 OL salaries for OL players (franchise hits of the top 5 at $7 mill a year and transition hits for a top 10 average at $6 million). Jennings play is not worth the level of the outstanding LTs in my view nor can the team afford other allocations necessary for the OL, O, of team at this level. More pedestrian LTs like Clifton, Wade, and Pettigout have recently commanded annual salaries which are high but certainly lower than the top 10 cap hits. If Jennings gets op 10 money from Blank or someone or demands that to extend I say thanks but see ya. I think the Bills will likely have alternatives if Jennings commands big bucks. I'm not sure what will work and much depends on JMacs plans for building an entire OL but among the options at LT (most of which will not work but we onlneed one to work to replace him and one other as a sub) include: 1. Move Teague from center where many have hated him (though I have like his C play) to LT where he orginally wanted to be and showed with the Broncs he is certauinly up to the job. 2. See if Price can step up to be permanent and we can find adequate back-up to replace him. 3. Move MW to LT as most originally thought he would move now that he has seemed to recover the RT form we wanted. 4. Try Tucker out at tackle which he originally played in this league. Though LT is a big jump, Tucker makes the move which is more likely than Tucker, it allows Tucker to merely make the move to fill the new RT need. 5. Until our recent TE injuries, Peters was on the roster as a tackle, LT is too much responsibility for him likely but again if MW can make the move RT is unlikely for him to rise up to but is a possibility. 6. Resign Jennings at an affordable deal for the Bills. It is actually item 6 which I think is most likely for the Bills IF we resign Jennings. Though the LT contract market has blossomed, the irony here is that I think it actually may make Jenning affordable for us because the LT market is now mature and commitments have been made. Consider these factoids: 1. Alot of the LT money is locked up- Not only are 8 of the top 10 cap hits LTs, but teams like Chicago et al. have made major commitments to the second tier of LTs where folks like Wade, Clifton, and Petitgout have locked up major commtiments which takes many teams out of the market for Jennings and out of the picture as competition for the Bills. 2, Those looking hard for an LT are going to pay big dollars and will have to choose whether to spend the money on folks like Orlando Pace who is not in the top 10 salaries but will be entering the market- Not only will the demand for LTs be constrained as most teams have already committed big bucks to the position, but Jennings will not be at the top level of available LTs. 3. If the Bills do go FA to fill out the OL there likely will be cheaper options- Consider this, the Bills were able to get Trey Teague who was then viewed as our likely attempt at an LT answer for an annual salary of $3 million. Good OL players are available at a near rock-bottom cost if you scout well and negotiate hard. It simply far more complicated than going out and giving up the ranch and the dog for Jennings. If in fact, JMac becomes comfortable with MW making the move to LT, it frees the Bills to shop in the lower cost market for a FA RT or to try to develop someone internally. If Teague makes the move it gives us the ability to shop fow a center who may be pricey but will be of lower cost than an LT.

Your wish is my command: Cliff notes begin: Don't worry (unlike ICE), be happy (like most Bills fans are with blow-out wins). Cliff notes end

This view may have already been mentioned as i did not read the middle pages of responses as ICE's initial estimation folks are replying to deviates so far from reality (it says a key is stopping Suggs who it seems likely will not even play or if he does he will be wounded and stop a Cleve D which is playing pretty well but it has given up something like 100 points the last two weeks). As always, these views though they have no relationship with reality cannot be discarded in the Any Given Sunday world of the NFL. It is actually a testimony to the true resurgence of the Bills team as a force that the major real caution on games like Miami last week and the Browns this week is that they are calssic trap games and if the Bills show up expecting that they can win easily that sets the table for a rude surprise. However, in terms of predictions, ICE should actually be very happy about this game because if it plays out the way it adds up on paper (damn the game for not being played on paper) he and we should look for Losman to get a lot of PLAYING time in this game if it turns into the blowout it should be given the Brownies starting their 3rd string QB, given the injuries they have suffered which are even worse than the injuries we have had, and given that we will be at home. One hopes that the injury bug does not befall us and that even if it does that our subs step up. The majority chance here is that JP will see a good quarter of action. The minority chance is that the Browns will show up ready to play and the Bills won't and that we will have a real game on our hands. The good news is that even if this minority chance (which is a real but smaller possibility) occurs, the Bills should still have enough to win the game even if it means JP never sees the light of day. Its getting ahead of ourselves because it is clear a team does best when it takes it one game at a time but the interesting crunch time comes the next week as the Bills will have to go into someone else's house (Cincy) and this team will have a chance (though small like the Bills) at the playoffs (unlike the evemtual late blow-out of Miami and the it is to be hoped but not guranteed cakewalk against the Brownies). I look forward to the next two weeks (though like any fan I then get tempted by considering the next week against SF, an even more pathetic team but involving a trip out west where historically we have done poorly). Heep the cheeseburgers in the freezer and deal with this one week at a time.

Howdy ICE (and anyone who cares ir us amused enough by thie repetition to pay any attention) , I'm happy to take a crack at this as I am just back from a nice business trip to NYC and even posting on this beaten to death issue will be helpful for getting me back into the Bills swing of things. First, the major fault in the point of view you express is the word ONLY. The fact is that there are many things which are useful for the preparation of a QB to contribute in this league and while playing is certainly an essential one of them, iy is not the only thing a rookie needs to become a vet and in particular a QB needs to contribute to his team. Playing is essential but for some players it doesn't come first. Specifically, in order to contribute and to be more of a vet than a rookie, it strikes me that a QB needs: 1. Athleticism to play and contribute against pro athletes and at NFL speeds- The speed difference of the game is something virtually all players seem to mention as the biggest notable difference as the move to pro ball from college. I perceive a lot of this come from in the college game usually only 1 or 2 opponents play at MFL speeds and as a pro they all do. I think this is one of the main things a player gets from playing the game and nothing really is the same as playing against opponents who want to kill you and have the size and speed to do it. However, there is the large piece of reality that playing is actually finishing school for this factor as first every athlete plays serious against pro speed and NFL players in practice. Its not the same as a real game because the opponents are not trying to kill you (unless you are JP and rubbed your wearing of the practice tutu in TV and the Ds face enough that they take the opportunity that any game provides to not go out their way to hold back. Still I agree that only by playing can an athlete get a serious and the best sense of this, though even in this case the player must first get a taste of this in practice and show enough mastery to protect himself before you put him in a real game to perfect this part of his game. 2. Understanding and anticipating NFL defenses- Here again playing adds an essential element for a player as by all I have heard, the game looks different over the center's back, however, understanding the basics is so essential that to send a player into the game to play without him having a fundamental sense of the game which he will get from studying the playbook and watching tapes that it is rediculous to say that this only comes from playing. Particularly in the case of a QB who comes out of an offense that has nothing to do with the pro game (this is why many QBs were simply shifted to the safety position) or a player like JP who made great plays running for his life rather than running set plays the first thing they need to do is demonstrate that they have grasped the playbook and the tapes well enough to do themselves or their teammates some good. If you think that the classroom stuff is meaningless to playing the game well enough, I ask only that you remember back to Billy Joe Hobert who clearly demonstated that without attention to the off-field side of the equation, physical ability even for an experienced pro simply adds up to a bad and meaningless game. 3. Mechanics are key- chemistry is built between two players when they develop a second sense of what the other player is going to do in a given situation. In the NFL one might learn that and how a player will freelance in a given situation, but it is again simply rediculous in an oversystematized NFL to expect chemistry to be developed between players when the QB throws it differently each time. Losman in particular from the highlights I saw and the description of the professionals who saw him even more had worked with the ability to make off-balance throws and off the wrong foot. While this cut the mustard at Tulane where the vast majority of opponents were not fast enough to catch up with rainbow throws Losman was making off the wrong foot, pro defenders would eat him alive if he did this. Even worse with the Evans and folks of the world no chemistry would be developede or it would develop slowly if JP was making college level throws all the time. This work of ironing out mechanics is slow and hard from all I have heard and is best done in practice under the watchful eye of Wyche with scrubs or ball boys there to feed JP. 4. Leadership is esssential for a QB- Obviously JP being in the company of the boys us essential to developing this leadership so being a teammate and around the team is essential. However, nothing suceeds like success and JP needs to be in position where his games are far more than simple learning experiences where he makes mistakes, but actually situations where he experiences success which builds his confidence and the team experiences success under him. This is the difference from a world of JP where it is like he was in the NE game or the world of JP as he as in the Seattle blow out. I think you miss the boat completely when you did not see the great value (particularly after the NE debacle) him successfully handing the ball off to WM and leading the team to a TD under his guidance. The score was an achievement for any QB in this league as it actually seems rare when the lead the team to a TD at all. If you think this was so simple then explain for yourself why the NE game was so bad (another argument also why prep is necessary if you feel he was thrown into the game) and the lack of command he showed with an immediate delay of game penalty even in this successful outing. Leadership is something he will perfect only by playing but he will perfect it only by playing well. There are probably other things you could parse out but I think (and hope) this will do for now. The second fault in your past arguments (though you don't make it specifically here so maybe you have learned the errors of your past thinking)is that starting is not the only way to play. Players do fact NFL opponents at NFL speeds. see the game over the center's back, and do other important game simlulations in practice. They aren't the same as playing, but if a player can't master these simulations he is not ready to play. Most important for a players development however is that before he starts he can and usually should be given ample opportunities TO PLAY in a mop up role in games. Why you are so addicted to having JP start when he can PLAY in games as a sub is beyond me. In summary, how can a player not be ready to start- 1. If he has not had enough practice against his own team to protect himself against opponents, a player can hurt himself by starting if the result is going to be he gets hurt and knocked ot of games. Given that JP even got hurt in practice, i is clear the coaches must be sure he will protect himself adequately in real games before sending him out there to play a full 60. 2, If JP has not adequately demonstrated to the braintrust that he has sufficient understanding of NFL offense and defenses, not only will he play like a Hobert, but he will do his own development little good if not harm. In particular, is a QB does not learn how to adequately read blitzes, he can develop happy feet as TC did and be ruined. 3. He obviously must have pro mechanics not develop bad habits for himself and to develop good chemistry. 4. I think he has the spirt and Kelly like cockiness to be a good leader, but he needs to suceed to build true leadership and confidence and the braintrust must feel that he is ready in terms of mechanics, being more like a vet and protecting himself in order to develop his leadership. If JP is missing any or all of the elements he probably is not ready.

I agree with next week and though the effort is much appreciated, i think you should include with this not only the huge caveat that the Bills must win out (I feel good about next week here against Cleveland which leaves crunch time on the road against Cincy, a west coast trip that is easily winnable against the hapless 49ers, but cannot be assumed given how trips west treat us even after the Seattle romp- have two cheeseburgers, and more crunch time against the Steelers at home), but also the caveat that your percentages will need to be updated each week and wil change radically as results occur. I like the % you chose for next week's opponent's games, but in the last week (and even the week before that life almost certainly will change alot. For example if the Jets are playing for everything and the Rams have little to gain in the last game, I think the 60% switches the Jets way even if the Rams are at home. Add thecaveat and you got me.

You are correct that no one should be thinking that our record in the last three games indicates we will dust good teams simply because these were crappt teams. However, do YOU give any relevance to the real life fact that the Bills did not simply edge these crappy teams, but in fact put some very serious numbers on the board against them. Just as much as it would be inappropriate to deem this team a sure fire winner against all comers based upon the caliber of these three opponents (and particularly since when we did face a quality team in their house the Pats handed us our head) it is also inaccurate to merely dismiss that this team has turned into something because: 1. The are putting up the huge numbers over three games. One may be a random event, two might be a coincidnce, but three data points clearly makes it reasonable to think this may be real. 2. 2 of the three games were on the road where historically we have done nothing much less put up 80+ points. 3. The good performance is coming from multiple facets of the game as the D generally (besides effectiveness outages in the 1st quarter against Miami and at various points throughout that game balance against superb performances as most points - not in NE and holding leads in the 0-4 start-) has performed superbly, the ST is one of if not the best in the league, and even the O is a juggernaut with the Willis weapon. I don't think it merits getting all excited, but it certinly merits getting a lot excited.

L love this thread. I also had been feeling like the Bills would look inside for a new LT is necessary rather than spending the ranch and the dog to retain JJ (again a good player to retain, but not for the top 10 OL cap money that an outstanding LT will command). I had 5 options the Bills can pursue (to find the 1 option that works) in not giving JJ too much $ and my list did not even include the concept of shifting MW to LT and instead looking for a new RT (a more findable fit and one which if MW is up to the move makes the ideas of moving Tucker back to tackle or even maling the longshot of retraining Peters as an RT a doable thing). The bills really do have a load of options here so i see no need whatsoever to panic and give JJ a bunch of money if the market provides him with bigger # than LTs like Wade, Clifton or Petitgout commanded. If anyone wants to take he time (if you do I will certainly sing your praises) there is a time consuming but understandable market analysis which can be done to assess how much it will likely take to sign JJ. Right now I think there are a number of factors which will may well constrain the markt for JJ and make him quite signable by the Bills at a big escalation of his salary but at a less than stratospheric amount. These are: 1. The NFL run on LTs has actually constrained the market JJ will be entering- It is certainly the case that LTs have commanded huge contracts as folks like Boselli and Ogden got big bucks for this crucial position. However, as these amounts have percolated down the food chain so that folks at the talent level of Wade. Clifton, Petitgout, etc. have gotten $5 million annual salaries which still are out of the top 10 OL cap hits, this means that a good number of teams have already spent their budget allocation for the OL and LT positions. I think that Jennings to some degree is going to be entering a constrained market where many teams have already blown their wad in terms of what they have available for an LT and the lower demand may constrain his price. 2. It only takes two teams to create competition which drives up the price. As best as I can tell we ended having to pay through the nose for Milloy because Chicago had a need at this position as we did and had substantial cap room at the time. TD had to offer a high $ take out bid to get Milloy to sign or else we likely would have been in a bidding war with Chicago as the only supply of former Pro Bowl safeties at that time was ONE and two teams were enough demand to jack up Milloy's price. The market constraint I mentioned above may lower demand for LTs. but if there is but one serious opponent interested in JJ his price goes up. However, there is the additional demand constraint that in addition to many teams being committed already at OL/LT, teams which are not committed like AT actually have other cap commitments like their allocations for Mike Vick and Peerless Price which will make it more difficult for them to bid high for JJ. 3. In addition to these demand constraints, I think that there actually will be somewhat of a supply of outstanding LTs. For example, I think Orlando Pace will be on the FA market (his current salary is not in the top 10 OL cap hits according to NFLPA.com). If I have the money to spend on an outstanding LT and my choices are JJ or Pace, then my course is clear. If this happens, then STL now enters the market looking for a replacement, but in this game of contractual musical chairs, the key is to have your big contract signed before the music stops. The prescence of more desirable top LTs in the market than JJ heightens the leverage for the Bills to re-sign JJ at a lower bird-in-the-hand offer for him. I think the long piece of analysis which would need to happen to speak authoritatively about this issue is some specific market analysis assessing what is the actual demand out there for LTsgiven the constraint that many teams are already locked in for allocations for this position and also what is the supply of potential players out there (in particular players who may be more attractive at LT than JJ as I suspect Pace might be). It will certainly take some time if I ever get to this, and I would be overjoyed if someone can provide the great service which Clumpy and others have provided on the Bills cap values on this specific issue.

Unbidden change is always a concern, but since MM is actually an offensive guy and Clements is performing well and be trained in his wake, he is very useful as a leader on this team, but also very replaceable if it comes to that. I'm actually more worried about Gray getting offered a promotion to an HC job which he has shown he merits consideration for. Though I have heard NO RUMORS of him being the next Marvin Lewis/Lovie Smith I suspect that since NFL teams will have a need to at least interview minority candidates he may well get an interview for an opening. he got an interview and was considered for the Bills HC job and was also sought after by his college alma mater. think would leave a much biigger hole in this team to fill than losing Clements.

Looking at the substance of your post Mark, I think you raise some good points and I would add these additional thoughts: 1. You are correct to note that the last three Bills opponents were as you put them C level and a better assessment can be made against an A opponent (Pitt) or a B opponent (Cincy) on the road. However, rather than dismissing the results against a C opponent, there is reasonable assessment which can be done based on how the Bills beat those C opponents (like a drum scoring 117 points, by more than a TD against Miami, and in laughers against the other two. It is true they were not among the best of tests, but we beat them the way C teams should be beaten rather than edging them on last second field goals and that seems meaningful. 2. Parsing why they and how they beat the opponents is important. There is no trend here in that the margin of victory was always the D, always the ST, or (amazing as it is to even say considering Bledsoe's horrid production last year) always the O. In these three games each of these units has excelled for at least 8 of the 12 quarters. Even when some of their work has stunk up the joint (the D play in the first quarter Sunday, Bledsoe's pics) the other units have picked up for them. It actually speaks most hopefully for the Bills in that this team does not appear to be dependent upon one particular unit leading the charge meaning for example if you beat our D, you beat the Bills, but they have shown the ability in the last three games to survive one of the units getting beaten as almost always happens in the NFL. 3. Finally, it is worth noting that one games results can easily be a blip from the "any given Sunday" aspects of NFL play. 2 game results can also actually easily be a coincidence. However, three games results can also set up a trend, I feel very good about this team coming home and facing a team on a downward spiral in Cleveland right now because like it or not the Bills need to win out. Any given Sunday means the Bills must show up to play or they may well lose, but the set-up is there for us to turn our performances into an undeniable trend as we head into the tougher must win games against a B opponent on the road and an A opponent at home We have to win out and this seems like the best road to do so.

Also, the Hall stories were all in the context of the Chiefs starting the season 8-0 or so and the Hall stories were part of the context of what they were really covering which was a #1 team and Hall's accomplishments were a real explanation of why they were winning (Hall's returns were not only exciting but the beginning of blow-outs for the Chiefs or the difference in the game). The media loves individual stories but they did their coverage of a likely non-playoff team Bills nationally last week when they told the story of WN's comeback. McGee needs for his kicks to be part of a playoff team winning or he needs to havr some individual tale of adversity like a brother in jail or WM's injury (or more likely both at this point) to get a lot of national buzz.