dave mcbride

I'm intrigued by what you're implying here. Care to elaborate? (I think I probably agree with you, btw.)

I'd take anything close to Tyler Lockett too, who is one of my favorite receivers in the league. A quickness/speed combo is so huge now given the passing game rules. The situation has changed greatly since Desmond Howard came into the league. Just curious - where did you stand on Tyler Lockett? I loved him coming out of college, but I didn't feel confident enough to know where he would/should be drafted. I think he's an elite player now.

Kirby: If what you're saying is true, why does he almost always lead the skill players in snaps for that team? I'm not saying he's super-talented - he obviously isn't - but in the NE system an ability to do multiple things and consistently (dare I say it) "do your job" from play to play is regarded as a huge asset. Belichick's basic view is that winning revolves around making fewer mistakes than the opponent, and the league is filled with coaches who are dumber than NE's coaches and players who are just one step above a box of rocks on the dumb scale. With regard to the Pats, I always go back to Michael Floyd (an idiot as a player): the Pats picked him up late in 2016 because he was super-talented, and then in his first or second game he ran a lazy route where he went to far and rounded it rather than running a crisp, short square in. The ball was picked, Brady was clearly pissed, and I don't think he ever saw another reception opportunity again after that play. Frankly, I think you overestimate high-physical talent guys vis-a-vis guys like Hogan. Ideally, you want guys who are physically talented AND smart-on-the-field players. There's a reason guys like Tyler Lockett excel despite not being nearly the physical speciman that Floyd was. Brains, discipline, and consistency matter so much in a game where mistake-proneness is the surest way to lose games. (Don't get me wrong; Lockett is definitely talented enough, but he is small.)

One of the things baseball HOF fame voters are supposed to focus on are five-year peaks as well as long-term counting stats. I think that the importance of five-year peaks is doubly important in football because if the injury issues.

Excellent analysis here. https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/06/super-bowl-lii-53-film-study-breakdown-patriots-rams-defenses-real-mvp-belichick-goff-mcvay

?? — I support Davis’ HOF status, but Sanders’ run from 1994-97 was a little more prolific than Davis. Sanders had 8,122 yards from scrimmage and 45 TDs. Davis had 7,594 yards from scrimmage and 61 TDs. As you know, td production is often a unction of the overall offense you’re in. Both had combined AVs over those four seasons of 69. Football ain’t like any other sport because of the extreme injury situation. 5-year stretches of greatness/dominance should be rewarded. Sandy Koufax is the model here.

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/who-better-julian-edelman-or-wes-welker?ls=pftvod Harold Baines also had 2,866 hits too. Huge numbers deriving from longevity can be deceiving.

True, but Brady has never had a serious arm injury. Kelly did - he ruptured the bursa sac in the elbow of his throwing arm 2/3 of the way through the 1992 season, and he was never the same afterward.

8 playoff games and 1,140 rushing yards and 12 TDs (plus a SB MVP). That's not a small sample size, and the numbers are staggering. Those games were against the best competition too.

Re Sayers, check out the kick return stats and the yards-per-reception stats in his early seasons. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SayeGa00.htm

He actually had 6 good season at Rutgers, factoring in that Rutgers was historically terrible prior to his arrival. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/greg-schiano-1.html He was DC at the U of Miami in 1999 and 2000, and the defenses were excellent. For instance: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/miami-fl/2000.html . Just sayin' -- there's a lot of false info floating around in this thread. People need to at least a little bit of research! (not referring to you, @YoloinOhio)

Well, he's great in the postseason, and I'm a firm believer that the postseason matters -- A LOT. I also think he's at least as good as Welker, and let's not forget that Welker choked big time against the Giants in the 2011 SB and the Ravens in the 2012 AFC championship game early in the second half when the Pats had a chance to put the game away. Those were two huge drops on relatively easy throws that would have changed the game if caught. The drop in the SB arguably cost them the game. If he catches that, they're in the red zone and can probably run out the clock. I'm not saying Edelman should get in, by the way. @C.Biscuit97 -- Edelman never did this. Watch this play closely. It's a terrible drop:

No, he's not, but I won't be surprised if he gets another 250 catches or so over the next three seasons and ends up with ~750-800 for his whole career. His career ain't over yet.

He shouldn't get in based on his regular season stats, but I'm a firm believer that postseason numbers should be taken into consideration. It's why Terrell Davis, who had 1,140 rushing yards and 12 TDs in 8 postseason games (extrapolated to 16 games, that's 2,280 yards and 24 TDs) against the highest level of competition, is in -- and rightfully so. Edelman has 115 receptions and 1,412 receptions in 18 games (only 14 starts; he was a special teamer when he started there). That's damn impressive.

Let's not forget either that Unger is a borderline elite center - first team all-pro once plus multiple pro bowls.

Look closer. The KC receiver blatantly took out not one but two NE players and made zero effort to run an actual route.

? - i was referring to the pitiful non-call on the blatant OPI.

Not nearly as bad as this: https://mobile.twitter.com/nfl/status/1087177623858364416?lang=en

He strikes me as the Jonathan Cooper of wide receivers. I’d steer clear.

Yes, his catch numbers aren’t what people should be focusing on. He is almost always a leader or one of the leaders in terms of offensive snaps outside of Brady and the o-line. He does a lot of other things in that offense.

PS re my post above - Hogan played 63 snaps (88 percent of all plays) and only came out for the late td drive when McDaniels went with the heavy 2 TE set to get the rams out of nickel (and then proceeded to pass it 4 straight plays down to the 2). He played in 93 percent of the snaps vs the eagles and in 97 percent vs the Falcons (more than anyone besides brady and the o-linemen).

I rewatched the game. He was blanketed three times (the INT play and 2 deep throws where Peters covered him), one pass was tipped and behind him (bad decision to throw into what looked like triple coverage), one was a one hopper across the middle where he was open (bad throw), and one was a drop on a not particularly well thrown ball that would have resulted in precisely zero yards if caught. Brady yelled at himself on the one hopper, not Hogan. To be fair, Brady was pressured on that throw and didn’t really step into it. The narrative that he had some sort of bad game because he screwed up is flawed. He’s a great blocker and played almost every snap. That said, I suspect he’s gone.

I definitely see your point, but the simple fact of the matter is that Julio is a significantly better player than all of those Saints players mentioned above and definitely a more committed “process” guy than the likes of Jimmy Graham (a life-long wretched blocker, btw).

My point is that contra Rex, he actually did have a knee problem when we signed him. His best years were with Miami, even though he was OK for the Bills.

I don't think Daboll is like that, and he really showed growth over the course of the season in his playcalling. Give him some good players, and I expect good things will happen. He's a longtime Belichick guy after all, and he's analytical.