macaroni

The actual quote was ................ and I quote ................. "I stink because I ate a yam" ..................... but he was misquoted by the press

You don't get put up on the wall for being an upstanding citizen .... you get put on the wall for being a good football player. Say what you will about O.J.'s life post football ...... but you must admit ..... he was a damn fine football player. P.S. some posters have brought up the name of Pete Rose and his gambling ..... IMHO, the fact of if he bet .... or if he bet on his own teams ...... and when he bet on them is a moot point. ........... for those of of us old enough to have had the pleasure of seeing him play through out his career it should be impossible to believe he ever "threw" a game, or played at a lower level then he was capable because of his gambling. That said ............ if he is in the hall or not, does not diminish his playing career one iota ..... he acomplished what he acomplished. If the hall is supposed to represent the best players in the history of the sport, The hall is poorer because of Pete's absence ....... Pete Rose's acomlishments are not any less because he is not in the H.O.F.

Even as the self proclaimed king of the Flutopians, given the choice right here, right now between JP and R. J. I'd choose R.J.

I would hazard a guess that Jim is thinking ........... "I'm wayyyyyy too old to play any more, but I could probably still do better than the three stiffs the Bills have on their roster .... " I am a bit confused as to what the "Brady Brady Brady" part of your post means, doesn't he play for the other guys?????

What the heck ..... I say start him untill his contract expires. That would kill two birds with one stone, we could give J.P. all the time he may need to develop .... and would put off the hassle of looking for a good QB for a few more years.

Give Nall a "chance" in the last game or two???????? What's up with that ........... what kind of "chance" is a game or two???? The jury is still out on J.P after how many games, and you want to give Nall a "chance" for a game or two???? Do we cut J.P. if Nall plays well for a game or two???? Do we cut Nall if he doesn't play well for a game or two???? Bottom line ....... if for some reason the brain trust doen't currently believe in J.P. by now, it's time to sit him and get Nall some playing time to prepare him for "his chance" next year.

While I think your reasoning is not very valid ……….. I also do not think the Bills will NOT be moved to L.A. by the league. My reasoning is as follows; We follow and support the Bills because we are “Bills fans”, the team sucks, they’ve sucked for quite some time, and even the most Pollyannaish among us realize they probably will suck for a number of years into the future. We haven’t competed for a playoff spot in years, we currently aren’t even competitive during the regular season, and we won’t compete on the playoff/super bowl level for quite some time …… but damn it all ….. they are OUR team and we support our teams through thick and thin. If they were to move to L.A., where would the fan base come from? People of L.A. will not fill the stadium for the sheer pleasure of supporting just any NFL team …… They’re not going to jump on their new team’s bandwagon just because there are seats to be had. They are not going to buy the jerseys because they are such a pleasant shade of red white and light blue and dark blue and medium blue and silver (or what ever that other color is). If the new team was a winner …… maybe different …… if the new team had a “history” in the L.A. area …… maybe different. But a suck assed team, filled with players without household names ….. I think not. Moving the Bills to L.A. would be financial disaster for the team. So who could be the prime candidate you may ask????? How about the San Diego Chargers …….. they have a “history” (they started out life as the L.A. Chargers). Granted the fan base they would get from those days are in their late 50’s early 60’s …. But it is a connection none the less. San Diego’s near proximity to L.A. (as opposed to Buffalo’s) says they probably have more locals that follow the Chargers than the Bills ….. local media coverage would also favor the Chargers bringing with it more player “name recognition”. Last but not least …… the Chargers are simply playing better ball which would prompt more wagon jumpers to make the leap.

55 ......... and long time Bills QB supporter, who just happens to think JP pretty much sucks. However, I'd like to see him get the rest of the year just for "closure" and to shut up the people who think the light will turn on in X number of games ......... but I guess they never will ...... if he only got 8 games they'd say he needs 10 ..... if he gets 10 he'd need 12 ...... if he gets 12 he needs 16 ....... if he gets 16 he needs a whole season in a row not 16 spread over two seasons ad nausium. I'm sorry to say to all of the flamers that I don't have any answers other than the brain trust at One Bills Drive should know by now what we have in JP, and they need to audition some new talent. IMHO they already know what Holcomb brings to the party, and our third stringer really hasn't been given an opportunity, but they really REALLY need to know if we should be looking for one QB or three QBs next season. The biggest thing that bothers me is ...... last off season Brees and Culpepper were free agents (granted, in hind sight Donte would have been a poor pick up) and everybody knew McNairs days were numbered. The front office didn't really seem enamoured with any of our QB options, and we didn't even give Drew, Donte or Steve a look see.

You shouldn't be so smug and flippant ........... there is only ONE NFL stadium in New York that I know of ...........

This post is a perfect example of WHY I pose my question ......... while I agree that J.P. may have "craped the bed" on those last four plays (as well as the safety in the NE game), those instances are EXACTLY what we should expect from a young inexperianced QB ......... however, we should be willing to overlook the occasional plays (and series of plays) such as these as a "learning curve". On the flip side a young an inexperianced QB will at times have an outstanding play (or series of plays) but we should also dismiss these plays in the overall scope of the universe as youth and exhuberance pulling the QB out of a sticky situation. As of now, I'm pretty neutral on J.P., I want him to be great because I'm a Bills fan, but I also understand that just because he is a Bill does not MAKE him great. While I'm not about to give up on J.P. because of a hand full of plays these last 11 games ................. I'm not about to annoint him the second coming based on a handful of plays these last 11 games.

Agreed ....... however the salient point of my post wasn't to debate the progress or non-progress of JP ............ or to second guess the coaching staff/front office. I was just wondering what that magic line of demarcation was when a prospect goes from a prospect to a football player. The only reason JP is even mentioned is to make it gemaine to our frame of mind .......... to make my post less controversal ........... let's say ......... little Joey Shablonic from WassaMatta U gets drafted by the Toad Lip Iowa Froglegs. The Froglegs cut there starting QB of last year and hand the job to Joey knowing they are in "rebuilding mode" ..... and Joey may as well get experiance this year. NOW ......... keeping in mind ....... the Tampa Bay Bucks (and their fans) felt that Steve Young wasn't talented enough to play on their God awful team (not to mention a number of other QBs not as sucessfull, but who have none-the-less gone on to fruitfull careers with other teams). This also applies to other teams .... but I'm too darn lazy to dig up examples. Also keeping in mind ........ sometimes Joey is going to look good on paper, but not play well ......... and other times deceptivley have piss poor "stats" but in all reality play a good game .......... knowing we will show promise some of the time ..... and falter others to really stink up the joint. The question is .................... how many starts does Joey get before the knowledgable among us stop giving the excuse he is just gaining experiance. To put this in a frame of reference ........... I have heard it normally takes a WR about two to three years before he reaches his potential. I've also heard that a RB can be expected to "contribute" right out of college, however, it takes about a year of experiance before he is picking up blitz assignments etc.

I'm not J.P. bashing ....... so don't everyone jump up to give me a load of crapola .... I'm just wondering at what point is it politically correct for a team (and it's fans) to give up on a QB prospect?????? As pointed out, J. P. has only 11 starts ....... but ...... his record is something like 2-9 (if I remember correctly). In these 11 starts he has sometimes shown signs of a quality QB, but most times has looked pretty horrible. Even (as last week) when he puts up good statisical numbers they are not indicitive of his overall performance (sometimes his "numbers" aren't so good, but he had performed well). I guess the nexus of my question lies with the Bucks ....... a good number of QBs were not "good enough" to play on that team when it was stinking out the NFL ...... however a good number of them went to other teams to varying levels of sucess ... Steve Young ..... Brad Johnson .... come immediatly to mind. So your thoughts please ......... when does J. P. "go on the clock" where a self respecting fan can boo a bad outing without hearing the excuse "he has only (fill in the blank) starts".

In keeping with ol' TD's phiosophy ....... if Place kickers are a dime a dozen ..... what the heck does that make punters worth?????? Four or five cents a dozen??????

Let's get realistic here ......... what exactly has JP done to win any non-Bills fans respect? W-L record of something like 2 - 8 ............... never has put up "steller numbers" to carry the team .... last year cycled between riding the pine and stinking up the playing field ....... and is being protected by a suspect O-line (which always makes a QB look worse than he is. While I will agree, to us rabid Bills fans, who have the luxury of disecting every little nuance of every Bills play (and sometimes seeing things that are not there and not seeing things that are) have noticed improvement in J.P.s play. But the bottom line is how much time and effort does (or should) a national media "expert" spend on analyzing the play on a borderline player on a poor, small market team. Until our beloved Bills start to win ..... and I mean win big and often ....... the national media will always ALWAYS dismiss our team and the players on our team out of hand. As far as local media "experts" ..... who has the cajonies to swim up stream and contradict the "big guys" opinions about a team who played so poorly last year ....... basically "cleaned house" in the front office as well as on the field, and is admittadly at the start of a rebuilding process (again for the zillionth consecutive year). I'm OK with Boomer saying we suck ....... don't even mind if every "expert" who has access to a typewriter or keyboard jumps on the "Bills suck" bandwagon and trashes our owner, GM, coach, and players. As a Bills fan of long standing I KNOW overcoming all of the negativity will be that much sweeter the higher it is piled on. Will it be this year????????? ......... I don't know ...... but from watching the last two games I honestly feel we are on the right track, and that day isn't too far in the future.

Nope ............ I want a good test ........ Pats, in their house, Bills double digit underdogs ............. BRING IT ON. We may not win ...... heck we probably won't win ..... so be it, but no false hopes based on a "walkover game" where we have all of the advantages. Let's strap on the helmets, go mano-a-mano and give our best efforts to kick some patsy butt ......... let the chips fall where they may. The smell of autumn is in the air, the playoff hopes are still in our hearts, we're tied for first place in the division, the dreaded Fish are in undisputed last place. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ......... lordy lordy lordy ......... I'm sooooooooo ready for some football.

I can attest that they DID make it out of the parking lot ...... the group that my Dad, brothers, and I went to the game with was that group of fans. The chunk of goal post was loaded onto the school bus we all arrived on, taken back to the bar that arranged the outing, and split up between the fans (with the largest portion hung behind the bar). I was quite young at the time so I didn't get a "piece of the pie" but I do believe my dad and three brothers still have their pieces.

we have to look at this scientifically .............. I have McGee on my FF team .......... my son's opponent has Brady on his FF team .... so therefore ......... Mcgee intercepts a Brady pass, and runs it back for a TD.

and the Falcons ...... we can't forget the falcons .......... oh ...... nevermind

Say what you will about the pass rush ....... but until the Bills DBs start playing closer than 10 yards off of a reciever, all the pass rush in the world isn't going to help.

Maybe ... just maybe ..... we really do suck. Now as a Bills fan I'm not willing to concede that point just quite yet, but put yourself in the shoes of the three or four non-Bills fans in the country. We Bills fans say ..... we have a 1200 yard back returning who is motivated, and may even play on 3rd down this year. Non-Bills fans say .... we have a running back who's best days so far was in college ....... since his injury, he hasn't shown the edge rushing speed .... since he's been in the NFL his ability (or willingness) to hit the hole quickly has been spotty ...... who has a much better opinion of himself than his stats bear out. We as Bills fans say ........ Losman looks like a young gun who has learned the game in his 3rd year..yes, 3rd year. Non-Bills fans say ...... Losman is in his third year and still has not shown any consistancy with his accuracy ...... has yet to show team "generalship" during a real game ..... has yet to show a maturity level required to cope with the ups and downs of a season. We as Bills fans say ....... we have speed at wide out Non -Bills fans say ...... we've traded our experianced #1 reciever, and replaced him with someone who has not yet proven he can compete while being double covered, and our #2 reciever was a Bills cast off who has since bombed out in Atlanta and Dallas. We Bills fans say ...... TKO is back Non-Bills fans say ..... TKO is recovering from a bad BAD injury ...... many LBs never recover 100% ......... and bring up Sam Cowerts name We Bills fans say ........ experienced coaches...no more learning on the job Non-Bills fans say ......... the coaches are new ..... so is the system ..... and there is no guarantee that a "new coach" is a better coach ....... (wasn't he fired from his last job because he sucked?) You get the picture ........... why would the national "experts" be expected to research each and every team in the NFL .......... when to some, the outcome is so darn obvious. In reality, if an expert predicts a record of 5-10, and we go 7-9 .... or even 8-8, who in the heck (except us Bills fans will notice).

........ to post THIS WEEK IS A MUST WIN

IMHO ..... there is a distinct difference between a QB with the ability to scramble when required, and a scrambling QB. The best example I can think of is Ron Mexico .......... IMHO ...... he sucks as a QB ... great scrambler, but a horrible QB. A QB with the ability to scramble doesn't have to have the speed/elusivness of a Vick ....... just enough wheels to get himself out of trouble when the pocket collapses ...... but more importantly ..... the BRAINS to know when taking off will gain a few yards or when the play is Sooooooooo dead that he needs to dump the ball. I don't want to see my QB "dancing around" trying to win a game with his legs (that's why we have running backs). QBs win games with their brains, eyes, and arm (in that order). If the QB gan get a yard or two or three when the pass isn't there ......... that's a plus. But I don't want to ever EVER see my QB leading the team in rushing yards.

I liked the ones the Bills completed, and the ones the Lions didn't complete the best I liked the ones the Lions completed and the ones the Bills didn't complete the least

Building depth ????????? BUILDING DEPTH?????????? Our starters can't play worth diddley-poo, and you want to build depth????? This team needs to build an O-Line ........ this team needs to find a starting QB, this team needs to find WRs capable of starting, this team needs TKO healed to the point where he can play up to his prior levels. We don't need no stinkin' depth, we need to build this teams starters first.

Let me preface my comments with ..... I am NOT yet drinking the JP koolaide ... I'm a Bills fan, I want him to do well ..... but I'd be just as happy with Holcomb or Nall if they turn out to be the better QB ............ now with that said ..... It seems to me that Lord Farve had big problems when he started out in the league with settling down at the beginning of a game ....... I seem to remember some horrendously bone headed plays/passes at the beginning of games early in his career ....... even to the point where announcers "and other so-called experts" doubted his ability to ever really be able to be a consistant QB in the NFL. I'm not trying to say JP's career or sucess will ever equal Farve's, just saying JP is young ........ he's not only capable of spotty performance ..... but it should be pretty much expected, and the theroy that he needs to settle down / slow down a bit may not be too far fetched.