Brand J

By this logic it’s too early to say that tight end has improved, because what evidence do we have that Kincaid is better than Morris? All we have is the paper to judge and on paper the IOL is better than last year. Yeah Edwards has been a guard in the league. The other poster was asking if he could kick out to tackle.

Edwards has the height, weight, arm length, and all that jazz, but he’s a marginal athlete. Only put up 16 reps on the bench too, so I’m not sure he could even be more than a Quessenberry. I share your same concerns regarding tackle, both sides. Dion has above average spurts, followed by average ones. Spencer’s struggles are well documented. Someone from inside will have to kick outside. A media member asked if Torrence could play out there and Beane of course said he’d start on the inside. Wouldn’t it be great if our 2nd round pick somehow defied his athletic limitations and beat out Spencer?

Bates is a better player than Saffold right now and yes, he was better than him last year. It wasn’t just a one year fluke with Saffold, he’s been in decline. To assume McGovern could be just as bad in pass protection… I mean, I don’t know. It’s possible, sure, but I’d say much more unlikely. McGovern received a contract within the first few days of free agency. Saffold is still a free agent. If the league valued Rodger as highly as you do, or thought his career and body of work as a pro bowler meant something, he would’ve been signed by this point. It’s always a “what have you done for me lately?” league, no evaluator dwells on the past. As the saying goes, contracts aren’t awarded based on what you’ve done, they’re awarded based on what you potentially can do moving forward. But anyway, even if McGovern flops, Bates at LG is an upgrade over Saffold, which would then leave the rookie or Edwards at RG. And in that scenario the IOL is still more solid on paper than last year.

@KDIGGZWho was the better guard for the Bills last season? Ryan Bates or Rodger Saffold? A) If you answer Saffold, you will lose all credibility and it isn’t worth more discussion. B) If you answer Bates, you effectively contradict many of your points of argument. C) If you try to argue they were the same caliber player, not only would you be disproven by OL metrics, but you’d also contradict your points in regards to Saffold’s body of work and history of pro bowls, seeing as how Bates hasn’t been nominated to one. I don’t like groupthink myself, I like to form my own opinions like you, so in that respect I can appreciate taking an opposing POV. But you also have to admit when an argument is faulty.

Is it also your assertion that Saffold was a better guard than Bates was last year, simply because he has the better body of work over his career? And named to pro bowls? I want you to see the ridiculousness of your argument.

This is true. I have no idea if Torrence would be a better LG than what Saffold gave us last season, but if I was a betting man… The argument was mostly about the interior being better than what we have been, not Saffold versus Torrence. We’re talking about Bates potentially going to the bench and I don’t think many here would argue that Bates wasn’t a better guard than Saffold was last year. Oh and Bates has never been to the pro bowl. 😱 In totality the IOL is stronger than last year, despite what the stubborn naysayers choose to believe.

You get no arguments from me about the tackles, but your view of the OL is undoubtedly stuck on Saffold’s past accomplishments versus the player he was and has been the last few years. I didn’t know when he came to the Bills that Titan fans were celebrating his exit. He’s not the player he once was and that’s a fact. It’s also a fact that McGovern was a better player than Saffold was last year… or do you dispute this as well? I refuse to believe your stance is simply: Saffold has been named to the pro bowl multiple times, therefore he’s better than McGovern has ever been, including the last season the two took the field (?)

You act as though guards can’t be interchanged, that Torrence would never play LG. He may not, Bills may like him better on the right, especially because they’ve already told McGovern he’ll be at left, but we also know the coaches train for positional flexibility, so I included Torrence in my argument because it is possible he finds himself on the left at some point. Saffold’s best years are way beyond him. There’s a reason he’s still a free agent, he isn’t good. And I also think we can stop using the pro bowl as a means to justify a player’s talent. It’s a popularity contest, nothing more. Most are deserving, don’t get me wrong, but you also have guys nominated that shouldn’t have any business being nominated. To say McGovern will be WORSE than what Saffold gave us last year is just being a contrarian and argumentative. Or perhaps you don’t realize just how bad of a guard Saffold was…

To say the IOL hasn’t improved, that would suggest you believe that McGovern and the 2nd rookie Torrence are on par with Rodger Saffold, that neither is an upgrade. Is this true?

Career extensions are also aided by Goodell’s desire to legislate physicality out of the game. Some of the penalties that follow are frustrating for the fans, but always beneficial for the players.

There’s certainly great depth on the interior now. Bates is an average guard, but a worthy starter. Interested to see how it all plays out.

Maybe should’ve taken a flyer on a DT. That Clark dude is huge.

Yeah Beane said they had an offensive player who was right there with their evaluation of Dorian and it was back and forth. He gave the impression that he would’ve taken that player over Dorian, but that he went “a little bit before.” I went back and looked at the picks and it was either a RB or WR that he was talking about. There was a run on both. I’m glad it wasn’t another 3rd round RB.

The Ravens picking him was a surprise to me. Where does he play with Queen and Roquan on the field?

I laughed because it’s true. The Bernard/Dorian Williams picks are very similar in some regards. Both were named player of a bowl game (or something like that) after big defensive performances. Both are undersized, but sideline to sideline. One is from Tulane, the other from Baylor, and neither were slotted in the 3rd by the “experts.” Here’s to hoping at least one becomes a standout player.

Unless it’s for a QB you absolutely believe in, I’m not a fan of trading up and giving away picks. Bills needed help on OL, DL, and at LB and traded up in the first to select… a TE. When there’s already one on the roster who doesn’t get targeted enough. Of course I’m all for Kincaid to ball out and I hope he does, but if I was GM I’m keeping my picks and staying pat or trading down. There’s lots of talent, numerous players we could select at any given pick in rounds 1-3 and the more ammo you have to get those guys, the better. You gotta hit on the picks though and Beane has only selected one blue chip talent.

Beane said in his presser they had a few offers to move in the 3rd, but he didn’t like how far they’d have to drop so he took Dorian. He has traded up in 4 of 6 drafts, he gets super antsy and impatient, when I’d rather he sit in a dark room until it’s time to pick. I don’t like sacrificing picks.

I’d rather not hear Beane say “special teams” when speaking about the contributions of his 3rd round selection. It’s fine to say Dorian probably won’t start right away, but leave “special teams” outta your mouth! Even if it’s the initial plan for your 3rd round draft pick. There’s nothing more deflating.

Some of the same people in this thread who knocked Mike Gesicki for being a big WR and not much of a blocker are praising Kincaid for being the same. Funny what a Bills jersey will do for the perception of a player.

That Rapp signing was most unexpected, as were some of the other low money deals. QBs are exempt it seems. Geno gets $35M per, Daniel Jones is at $40M, Carr… can’t remember what he got but I know he wasn’t worth it. Moral of the story: groom your kids to be QBs!

Said it before and I’ll say it again: QB contracts are out of hand relative to what other positions bring in. I’m not calling for equality, far from it, but when Lamar signs for $52M/yr and we scoff at someone like Nyheim Hines who’s on the books for $5M and is asked to take a pay cut, something ain’t right.

I’d like to see the knockoff jersey next to the official one.

No one’s concerned about Addison’s smallish hands?

It takes about 3 months to transform a body. Not a miracle transformation, but a solid one. One of these offseasons I’d like Dion to hire a nutritionist and personal trainer and really get after tightening up. It hasn’t happened by now so it probably won’t, but even by OL standards he’s “bad body.” Also, AJE’s chest was shockingly small for a player who once weighed 280 and then 260. How many reps did he do at the combine? Dion said he’s much bigger but I don’t see power in his shoulders/chest. EDIT: Found that he did 17 reps on the bench which was a disappointment and a “rocky start” to his combine. I was going to say I’d be surprised if he did anything over 20 reps, but wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. 20 reps should be the baseline for a DE.

He tweeted from Coachella Tuesday I believe, when the rest of his teammates were at practice. Not that I make a big deal out of this, as long as he shows up in shape for mandatories (which I fully expect him to) and is ready to go, all is good.