BillsFanForever19

With all due respect to @HappyDays - I don't think that was an insider tip. We had Murray in very recently for a visit Pre-Draft, needed a 4th RB, didn't Draft one, and Beane said veteran moves were coming. I had heard from you or someone else that we had contacted him at some point. I was wondering if it was before or after we signed Shaq. The fact that we contacted him and then signed Shaq is another sign to me on the unlikelihood of it happening.

Yeah, Social Media follows, likes, and comments are meaningless. They're all friends and colleagues and are just commenting specifically on the posts their friends and colleagues make. Players don't go "we might have a chance at this guy, let me just start commenting on their stuff". In this case it was Nyheim Hines, his former teammate at Indianapolis and Von Miller, whom Yannick attends the Pass Rush summit with every year.

I mean, I'm not saying it's a TOTAL impossibility that we could get him. I'm just saying it's extremely unlikely, in my opinion. I don't see how he would sign to be a rotational rusher for us over being a Starter on any other team. It would be a bad career move that his agents would surely advise against. And I just don't see a way that no team in the league isn't going to offer him one of their 2 starting spots on the Edge - something we will not offer. And even in the unlikely event that there wasn't a starting job out there for him, there are surely teams that can offer more money than we can right now. Again, it's not a total impossibility. Maybe Floyd, Ingram, and Clark get scooped up by teams that need Starters first. Maybe the teams left that want him to start are so wretched that he decides he'd rather be rotational for a Contender for less money and less playing time. But yeah, I think that's pretty unlikely. Yannick Ngakoue is the #1 available Free Agent in all of Football. I don't see him having to settle. Much more likely that we'd land a Houston, Clowney, Quinn, or Dunlap. And any of them would be an upgrade over Shaq, Epenesa, or Basham as the #3. That is, if Beane is looking to sign a DE at all. Which with Von on schedule to not miss any time and us having re-signed Shaq, I'm not totally convinced he will.

Everything you've said about Yannick is true. He IS still an Elite Pass Rusher. He's the #1 Pass Rusher still available. He's the #1 Free Agent available in the NFL of ALL positions, according to Pro Football Talk's Top 100 Free Agents. Which means he's going to start somewhere. He's not still on the market because there's no one who wants him. He's still on the market because there's been a log jam of available DE's asking for a decent payday. DE needy teams could afford to wait to see how the Draft played out for them because there were so many available. Now that it's over, whomever didn't adequately address the position and walk away with a starter will now be returning to the logjam list and he's going to be the first one starter needy teams will want. Hell, there's probably teams who have Starters in place that would sign him as an upgrade over a Starter they have, simply because they can and their starters are weaker than ours. I think it's possible we sign one of the 8 big name Pass Rushers left. But Ngakoue will have an opportunity to start elsewhere. We'll get whomever is left without an opportunity to start when the musical chairs stops and will be happy to take the meager role and meager money we have to offer, simply to play this season. That player is MUCH more likely to be a Houston, Clowney, Quinn, or Dunlap than an Ngakoue, Floyd, Ingram, or Clark. And there's certainly no way Ngakoue signs a long term deal to be a #3 for years to come. Even if he couldn't find a starting job this year (which is highly unlikely to me), he'd want to try and find a starting job next year.

Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown, Edwards, Quessenberry are locks. That's 7. We'll probably keep 9 total. That's the standard number McBeane usually keeps. Bates is a lock, unless he's traded. He's the only Guard we have that we'd be able to move and has value. I could see a scenario where Torrence beats him out for the RG spot right out of camp and either Broeker or Boettger are looking good enough that they feel comfortable with one of them being the final Guard on the depth chart. Probably give the edge to Boettger as he can play Backup Center. But yeah, Bates or either Broeker or Boettger to go along with McGovern, Torrence, and Edwards will make up our Guards, bringing the total to 8. The real question is who will be our 4th OT? Dawkins, Brown, and Quessenberry will be here. But Tommy Doyle completely tore his ACL 9/27 of last year and played an entire game on it. Almost certain he'll be put on the PUP. So do they feel good about Gouraige (or one of the futures signings) in the short term or are we going to bring in another OT? I think we may. And if we do, they'll surely be the 4th OT and the final member of the OL on the 53. As for the starting Line, it's clearly Dawkins - McGovern - Morse - Bates/Torrence/Edwards (whoever wins the job) - Brown Edwards isn't being traded. You don't sign a veteran to a 1 year deal in Free Agency and then say "thanks for choosing us, but now we're trading you somewhere else that you didn't choose and you don't have a say in it". Would set a bad precedent for anyone wanting to sign here in the future. As I said above, the only moveable OG piece is Bates. But it would take Torrence or Edwards winning the job and being comfortable having Boettger or Broeker as the 4th guy (and one of the Guards being able to be backup Center, as Bates is now). I suppose if someone wanted to trade for Boettger, he could be moved. But I don't see anyone giving up anything for him.

You do understand we weren't getting higher than a 3rd Round Pick in exchange for Edmunds on a 1 year, 13 million dollar contract last season, right? You say we "got nothing". But we got last year out of him AND a 3rd Round Draft Pick out of it. That's more than we would have got trading him. It's the same thing with Oliver. We're either getting him back or another team overpays for him and we'll get a 3rd Round Pick for him. And we'll have him for this season. There isn't a DT left on the market who wouldn't be a dropoff from him this season. So we'd be short changing ourselves for nothing. Oliver was never going to be traded. If he were, it would be for peanuts. Teams don't trade for guys on one year deals that want to hit the market. If it were to have happened, it would have been by now to fill holes that we've already filled between FA and the Draft. As for the team never carrying more than 4 DT's on the roster, that's simply false. We brought guys like Eli Ankou, C.J. Brewer, and Brandin Bryant up from the Practice Squad last season. I remember having 6 on the active roster at one point just last year. 2021 we started the season with Ed Oliver, Star Lotulelei, Harrison Phillips, Vernon Butler, and Justin Zimmer. So yeah, saying we've never carried more than 4 is not only wrong, it's fairly common for us to carry 5.

Say it with me people... Ed Oliver Won't Be Traded

Hey man, live your life. Believe the unbelievable. Hope for the unattainable. I don't know how it would be enjoyable to always get your hopes dashed because they're not based in reality. But do you brother. So often even the most realistic hopes lead to a let down. So I like to stay grounded in reality and the board I frequent not dissolving into nonsense. But maybe that's a me problem.

My dude - you are once again getting Madden level unrealistic. If we're able to get one guy from the list, that's huge. And I'm not convinced we'll even do that. But I'd be here for it. We don't keep 6 DE's on the 53. It's 5 max. And as I said above, Ngakoue will be one the first signed DE's and way more likely than not, to be a starter for someone. If we do this, it's going to be when the dust settles on the position and someone's willing to settle for the little we can pay and a situational non-starting role. There is zero chance we a.) Would pay the cost of an Ngakoue or Ingram to be our 4th DE, after bringing in the other to go along with Von and Rousseau (not to mention having already signed Shaq) and b.) That Ngakoue or Ingram would sign here to be the 4th Pass Rusher under Von, Rousseau, and either Ingram or Ngakoue. Both of those guys can start on other teams and would be accepting, at worst, the 3rd role for someone. I think getting one of them is unrealistic as they represent 2 of the top 4 available DE's I have in Tier 1. As I said above, I think either Houston, Quinn, Clowney, or Dunlap is more in line with a guy that will have to settle for the minimal amount of money we'd offer and the situational pass rush role we'd have for them. Getting Ingram alone would be a shocking massive win. Getting both of them is a fantasy.

Clark is a retched human being. Not a guy they'd bring into the locker room. Yannick (and Floyd) are the top tier of the available DE list. They'll be the first to be signed and will more than likely start for someone and be paid heftier than we're looking to pay. If we grab a guy, it's going to be who's left when the logjam gets settled and there's an option looking to settle for what we want to pay and the situational role we have to offer. Maybe that will be Ingram. But more likely a Houston, Quinn, Clowney, or Dunlap.

It's like fans that want Oliver traded and Edmunds before that. They can have their opinions and hopes for roster management. But if they don't line up with Beane's words and actions, they're deluding themselves if they believe the change they want is going to come. Like you said, Beane isn't looking to outright replace Brown. He's said it time and again. Just depth and competition. And not the type of competition that costs a ton and would be a replacement move. Whether certain fans agree with that or not is a moot point.

Shouldn't be hoping for a midseason trade. If we're doing that, it would be because one of our top options like Diggs got injured. If it were to happen, which it won't, this regime wouldn't want him coming in cold and learning the playbook midseason. They'd want him for the Offseason to get acclimated. McDermott barely felt comfortable using Hines much and RB is a much easier position to get down than the route tree for WR in our playbook. Arizona doesn't want to trade him. They don't need to trade him given their cap situation. They don't want to move him cheap. They don't want to take on any money as part of the deal. Beane moved on and Drafted a Receiving weapon in Round 1 and another WR in Round 5, to go with the the 2 other WR's we signed alongside Diggs, Davis, and Shakir. We have 6 WR's already etched in stone. We don't have the money. He's not interested. And Hopkins has raised the white flag and come around to Arizona. This is deader than a doornail.

Not a chance. He didn't completely tear his ACL and need a reconstruction like Tre. He had a partial tear and a repair. He's on pace to not miss any time. If they're overly cautious, he'd just miss a game or two. But from the sounds of Beane and him, he'll be ready Week 1.

That's just gas.

I mean, anything's possible. But I have to imagine Ditka was the #1 Pass Catcher on that offense. Going to be hard to duplicate those kind of numbers when you're playing on a team with Stefon Diggs amongst other viable targets.

Oh man - please tell me that you're not still looking at the ErieCountyBulls Twitter account 🤦

Morris was #54 and my last cut. Ultimately I decided that with Kincaid added, Gilliam could cover both FB and blocking on the line as a "TE" in certain packages that have Harris blocking in the backfield. I'd hope we could get Morris back on the Practice Squad, in the event of an injury to Knox, Kincaid, or Gilliam. Doyle having torn his ACL completely (as opposed to Von's partial tear and partial repair) and playing on it for an entire game on 9/27/22 - I imagine he'll start the year on the PUP. Spector is simply odd man out. Even Dodson was #53 for me and I had a scenario where we only kept 5 LB's and kept Morris. Ultimately, there's no room for Spector. We won't keep more than 6 LB's and he can't make it above any of the 6. Milano, Bernard and Williams (2 3rd Rounders), Klein, Dodson, and Matakevitch (ST Captain) all take priority. Much like Morris, I think we'd try and get Spector back for the PS. I could foresee (and in some cases borderline expect) the following scenarios that would change the roster in its current state: - Bates is traded for a pick and Boettger or Broeker is the final OG. - Another veteran OT being signed and Gouraige is off the 53. - Another Edge Rusher added and Basham is traded for a pick.

Lol no - for some reason when I linked to my Oliver post, it ended posting it above the link and spaced out. I've since edited the post to just be the link. Don't know why it did that.

I think anyone who has followed this saga and didn't see Beane shutting it down, the Arizona GM saying he's not trading him, not trading him on Draft Day, and the final coffin of Hopkins publicly coming around to staying in Arizona as this being dead is at the absolute least, completely delusional. As for where we're "top heavy", it's called better depth than we had. At RB, OG, and DT - we're in better shape than we were last season. And we needed to be given what each position gave us last season. You don't put yourself in a better situation and then say "eh, we don't need all of this, let's short change ourselves". RB is perfect right now. We've always carried 4 RB's on the 53. We have 4 RB's right now. Murray had a good year last year, but it was all in relief of injured players called up from the Practice Squad. At his age, that's what his role is right now. Cook, Harris, and Hines are going nowhere. OG was one of our weakest positions for years. We lost Saffold and brought in McGovern, Torrence, and Edwards. We now have a Starting calibur OG no matter the situation. Why would you want to change that? Even if we were to move, say Bates, it would have nothing to do with Hopkins. As for DT and specifically Oliver, that's not going to happen either. Oliver isn't going anywhere. I spoke in depth about why here: https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/247138-poona-ford-signing-with-the-bills/?do=findComment&comment=8388259

It's not a confirmed fact that the league looks at him as just a situational pass rusher this year after starting every game last season. That's just your opinion. And based on recent history, that's an opinion that isn't based in statistics. There was a log jam of available talent surely asking for large amounts of money and a number of teams that would address their need at DE in the Draft. Him being available now has more to do with that than meaning no one thinks he can start anymore. Now that the Draft has ended, teams that weren't able to land a high pedigree DE will revisit the list of those available. Ngakoue is in Tier 1 of that list. Surely not all of them will get starting roles. But Ngakoue will assuredly have better options for more playing time elsewhere than rotational behind Von Miller and Greg Rousseau, even in the event he doesn't start the season on the top of someone's depth chart - which I still believe is likely. Again, with the role we're offering (if were even looking at DE at all, after bringing back Shaq and Miller on pace to not miss any time), it's going to be for someone who is desperate for pennies on the dollar. Of that list, Ngakoue is one of the, if not THE, least likely option to become desperate.

Yes, that's his legit account and he unfortunately unironically tweeted that. The tweet is probably another reason why he's still out there. Not a smart move. https://nesn.com/2023/03/patriots-isaiah-wynn-sets-free-agency-price-with-bizarre-tweet/

QB - Allen, Allen RB - Cook, Harris, Hines, Murray FB/TE - Gilliam WR - Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter TE - Kincaid, Knox OL - Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown Bates, Edwards, Quessenberry, Gouraige DE - Miller, Rousseau, Lawson, Epenesa, Basham DT - Oliver, Jones, Ford, Phillips, Settle LB - Milano, Bernard, Klein, Williams, Dodson, Matakevitch CB - White, Elam, Johnson, Jackson, Benford, Neal S - Poyer, Hyde, Rapp, Hamlin ST - Bass, Martin, Ferguson

Incorrect. Take a look at his game log - https://www.nfl.com/players/yannick-ngakoue/stats/ 2022 - 15 games, 15 starts 2021 - 17 games, 17 starts In fact, the only season he didn't start every game he played in his career was 2020. And that was due to being traded to a new team before the start of the season and being traded again midseason. Again, there are DE's that will have to settle for a rotational pass rusher role with us. But Ngakoue is the top echelon of available DE's. There are teams that he could start on and he'd be signed to start on. If we bring one in, it will probably come later when the list has dwindled and a solid option is just looking to get on a team and will take anything. And with how deep the list is, it may very well be a very solid option.

Yeah, but how is he going to do that on a team that doesn't have a clear defining starting role for him? Miller by all accounts is on pace for not missing any regular season time. I don't see them wanting to remove Groot from the Starting Lineup. Would Ngakoue get his fake share of reps cycled in? Sure. But why would he take that role when he's the #1 DE option out there and could surely get an etched in stone starting role on another team? If we were to add a DE, it would be someone from the list who has to settle for an off the bench role. As I said above, that's way more likely to be a Quinn, Houston, Clowney, Ingram, or Dunlap than an Ngakoue, Floyd, or Clark.

Yannick would be great. But of the DE's remaining who may have to settle, Yannick is the least likely to have to. He's the #1 available DE. If we were to get a DE, which I'm not convinced we will following signing Shaq back and Von being on pace to not miss any time, it would be more like a Quinn, Houston, Clowney, or Dunlap than an Ngakoue, Floyd, or Clark.