BillsFanForever19
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Posts posted by BillsFanForever19
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"Beane doesn't value CB2 and won't spend a 1st"
"The plan is still to sign a veteran CB, we may not even draft one at all"
😆😆😆😆😆
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38 minutes ago, NewEra said:
We traded up for him, 1 pick away and Booth and Gordon on the board. LOL. That happened..
and now the jets gets Johnson. Jets killed it. Luckily we have 17
I'd have assumed you'd have been thrilled because his arms aren't under 30". He was the guy they liked. He has the speed neither has. A lot of people *ahem* said something similar when we drafted Josh Allen. Reports are Dallas liked Elam. Even if they weren't going to take him, if he was their guy above all others, why risk the possibility of someone possibly trading in front of us in Dallas' slot to take him with teams knowing we needed CB? Relax.
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I'm just thrilled Beane got a CB he wanted in Round 1. I spent the whole Draft process being told CB in Round 1 wasn't necessary and I felt like I was taking crazy pills listening to it.
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I'd really like someone to do another NFL Draft movie and do it more accurately to the reality this time. Since when is 2 1st's and a 3rd to acquire the #1 Pick in the Draft during a year that has a Franchise QB in the pool something you balk at?
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Love:
7 - Sauce Gardner (Trade Up)
57 - Kenneth Walker III
Expect:
25 - Andrew Booth Jr.
57 - Alec Pierce
Settle For:
25 - Kyler Gordon
57 - Calvin Austin III
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4 minutes ago, Putin said:
Josh Allen going in to his 5th season we definitely don’t need to use a draft pick or carry a punter on our 53 ,
Touché 😆
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating any higher than a 5th for Araiza.
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Some names I'm surprised to see they didn't meet with:
DB Daxton Hill
WR Christian Watson
WR Skyy Moore
WR Alec Pierce
RB Kenneth Walker III
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If Sauce Gardner, Derek Stingley, Garrett Wilson, Jameson Williams (surely all 4 of these are gone), Chris Olave, Andrew Booth, and Trent McDuffie are all gone by 25 (and we haven't moved up to secure one of them) - Kyler Gordon would probably top the list of my "okay, that works, I'm fine with it at 25" picks that also include Daxton Hill, Kaiir Elam, Christian Watson, and Breece Hall.
Though I think like many have pointed out, I'd prefer to move down and pick up more pick(s) to use to move up from 57 with to secure a couple from that list or someone like Skyy Moore, Roger McCreary, Kenneth Walker III, Alec Pierce, or Tariq Woolen (all of which might not be there at 57), in conjunction with one of those 5 guys I mentioned.
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1 hour ago, longtimebillsfan said:
I really thought he would have by now. Beane always surprises us so you never know.
It may be a smart move to wait for the draft to fill the cb position. We have alot of cap space tied up in our secondary. Having a high quality starter on a rookie contract for five years could help ease our cap situation.
I can't wait for the draft.
Exactly this. I feel this was always the plan and his not addressing the CB position in any way confirms it in my mind.
The vets that are left over are not the type you should feel comfortable rolling with by themselves. They're all 30 or older, injury prone, haven't started a full season in some time, and/or have declined in play.
They're the type you rotate in and that provide depth. I think we'll sign someone when guys get desperate before camp. But it will be in conjunction with someone we draft in Round 1 or Round 2.
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He drafts 1 CB within the first two rounds (maybe doubles up over the span of the entire draft), 1 WR with an emphasis on speed within the first 3 rounds (also maybe doubles up by the end), a RB that provides pass catching ability and speed somewhere between rounds 2-4, and a God of Punting for good measure 😛
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6 minutes ago, Shake_My_Head said:
Well, I'd say 35 years of combine measurables supports the hypothisis pretty strongly.
Since 1987, only 130 of the 1,214 CBs measured at the combine (11%) have had arms 29.75" or less. Over the past ten years, only 52 of 537 (less than 10%) have had those arm measurables. Here's the list:
https://nflcombineresults.com/nflcombinedata_expanded.php?year=all&pos=CB&college=
But of that list, how many were 1st Round talents comparable to Trent McDuffie? Zero. It's not fair to compare what he's put on film and his scouting report against guys who were not at his level. There are quite a few Undrafted Free Agents on that list.
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1 hour ago, NewEra said:
Every argument has a counter argument when you’re talking about hypotheticals. You know what doesn’t have a counter argument? That short arm outside corners don’t fair very well in the nfl. That is a fact.
The only "fact" you've proven is that outside CB's way more often than not have longer arms. There isn't any real data of late on how a prospect the calibur of McDuffie performed at the next level. Comparing 5th and 3rd round picks who came into the league just last season is not a fair comparison.
35 minutes ago, NewEra said:I started the thread to educate myself. I wanted to know how many good short armed boundary CBs have existed. I never correlated arm length with cb success before now. I’ve seen it mentioned a bunch during this pre draft process and started to look into it. So far, we have 2 names in the last 34 years.
That's because it's not as simple to find as you've made it seem. You can search combine measurements year by year, but there's no database you can look at of Cornerbacks throughout history that have arms under 30".
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Just now, MrEpsYtown said:
When all those boxes are checked, really is an inch going to be a dealbreaker?
Exactly my point. One negative trait doesn't discount everything. It's fair to have a concern about a prospects measurements. But it's unfair to discount 3 years of high level production and everything else on a scouting report for one thing. Doubly unfair to compare him to players that entered the league with a fraction of his expectations to begin with.
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10 hours ago, NewEra said:
Here I go again…..making completely valid points…..MY BAD.
"Here we go again" as in you, specifically, beating a dead horse. Pretty sure this isn't the first or even the second post I've had this same conversation with you in.
10 hours ago, NewEra said:Sounds like we should take Mcduffie….if we want to be stubborn idiots.
"Stubborn" would be to completely disqualify a player's potential and disregard everything in a scouting report for one thing. I can understand having concerns about his measurements. I'm not disqualifying it. But I cannot understand completely dismissing a players potential and every other trait a player provides because of one thing.
His NFL.com scouting report reads:
QuoteThree-year starter whose average size is overshadowed by skillful ruggedness, allowing him to contest throws from a variety of coverages. He's an elite competitor with a route-hugging mentality fueled by body control, foot agility, aggression and burst. He's a pesky press-man defender with the tools to excel in zone. He's willing to fly downhill and hit anybody near the football. He keeps his eyes on the prize and has an itchy, twitchy trigger to close throwing windows and make plays on the ball. He lacks lockdown traits but has lockdown talent and his competitive energy is contagious. He can play outside or from the slot and carries a very high floor with the potential to become one of the league's top corners at some point during his first contract.
In 2018, the scuttlebutt on this board was we couldn't possibly draft Josh Allen because a QB has never drastically improved accuracy from College to the Pros. This is more often than not true, but Josh proved an outlier.
In 2019, many said we wouldn't draft Ed Oliver because we require certain measurements from our Defensive Lineman and he was just too small. But he had other traits that made up for them, so we pulled the trigger. McDuffie could be the same situation.
10 hours ago, NewEra said:History shows that…..Trent McDuffie is the only good short armed cb in history. He must truly be a superstar.
Holy exaggeration, Batman. Your point is that he can't do it because there isn't a player who has. My point was that if you're going to use lack of success of others as to whether or not he personally would or wouldn't be a 1st Round bust, then you need to compare him to others who were considered 1st Round talents, not just players who share the same measurements.
It's not fair to compare him to guys who were considered late round or UDFA talents and say that he can't do it because they didn't, when they were never expected to be stars or succeed like him in the first place because of their lack of on field talent.
I would respect this argument of absolute certainty you have a little more if you could provide a list of 1st Round talents that definitively failed to perform up to the expectations McDuffie has. The fact is, there isn't a real comparison in recent history. This doesn't make your case. It just proves that McDuffie is an outlier.
Ultimately, this argument will probably serve moot. Because despite your concerns, McDuffie is a player who isn't even on the board at 25 in virtually all mock drafts.
Brandon Beane has met with Trent McDuffie, as well as Roger McCreary, who *gasp* has even shorter arms. He was at Washington's Pro Day. He's scouted him thoroughly. I doubt he'd bother if he was off our board. If he selects him and has faith in him, I would too. Again, only time will tell if the league is as concerned about his measurements as you are and whether or not he will succeed.
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15 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:
I don’t think it’s a little thing. History shows most of those guys struggle in the NFL
I think more than anything, history shows that there haven't been top prospects that have those measurements. Going back a number of years, those that have had those measurements did not perform at the level of McDuffie in College. Their skill was not at his level. Therefore, them underperforming in the Pros was not surprising.
The closest I could find that was a top prospect was Damon Arnette at an even 30, as opposed to McDuffie's 29.75. He was still taken 19th overall. Unfortunately, between injuries and his own idiocy, we never got to see if he could overcome this supposed sure fire death blow to his potential everyone is making arm length out to be.
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Here we go again...
McDuffie is a player who didn't allow a single TD in his final two seasons of College Football. Where he surely lined up against many 6 foot plus WR's who play or will play in the NFL. Yes, he has sub 30" arms. But it's a quarter inch under 30.
Also, you have to keep in mind he has a 38.5" vertical leap at his Pro day. This would have put him in 5th among all CB's at the Combine. This ability makes up for outstretched arm length on contested balls when leaving his feet.
He is still considered a top prospect at the position despite less than ideal measurables for his technique, football IQ, and his play. There have been players at other positions who have succeeded because of their proficiency in other aspects while having weaknesses in others. I remember all the talk of Ed Oliver's lack of ideal measurements heading into the Draft. But his proficiency on field outweighed that. The same could be the case with McDuffie.
There was a time when a QB under 6 foot couldn't succeed in this league. It's why Russell Wilson wasn't drafted until Round 3. Now the league is drafting Kyler Murray 1st overall. Sometimes there are outliers to the rule. Looking back through the years, I can't really find many, if any, instances of a top Draft Prospect at Cornerback with his measurements. But that doesn't discount everything he's done to this point or completely dismiss that he can be an outlier to the rule.
Ultimately, we'll find out this weekend if this is as big of a concern to teams is it is to some of you on this board. I weigh what is seen watching a player play much more than measurements. If Beane selects him, both he and McDuffie have my total faith.
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25 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:
https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/packers-targeting-tight-end-525?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Some guy calling himself Cheesehead so take it fwiw, but Rotoworld picked it up so it may have some legs. Now THIS is a player worth targeting, and if they could somehow get him for less than a first, sign me up. Waller in this offense would be bananas.
You aren't getting Darren Waller for the 57th pick in the Draft. The Tight End market has gotten out of hand and Waller will command the highest contract, sooner rather than later, I'm sure.
We have Knox and just gave 3.2 million guaranteed to O.J. Howard. Neither are going anywhere this season. I can't help but laugh when we address a position and then something shinier comes along and people just want to pretend like the move never happened and disregard it.
Teams don't hand millions guaranteed to a player and then replace them weeks later before they've even hit on the field. And we're not going to have 3 TE's active on Game Day or pay millions to someone who won't be active. Hell, we didn't even carry 3 TE's on the 53 man roster last season.
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8 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:
releasing Beasley is odd. Couldn’t even trade for a 7th?
Not odd at all. No one wanted to give up a pick and take on the contract we had him on. And so far, no one has wanted to sign him even without having to give up a pick.
7 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:Warren Gs son. Somehow, through magic, "Regulators" managed to hit even harder lol
He's still on the roster.
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2 hours ago, mrags said:
I don’t have the quote with Sanders, but they also asked him if he would be back playing this year and he said he would wait until after the draft and see where things are with him. You appeared to take it out of context.
I don't know how you can take a guy spending days essentially trying out for the media on NFL Network after talking about retirement and openly discussing having not returned when asked by Josh because of the condition of his knees as "out of context", but... okay, I guess?
2 hours ago, mrags said:Regardless, Sanders is another one, I’d much rather have him as our 6th or 7th WR than Kumerow who can’t seem to stay on a team like ever. Even after Rodgers wigged about about him he came here. Where he barely played and hasn’t done anything despite all the love for him. Then was picked up by the Saints where he couldn’t do anything. Then back here to be practice squad bait again. Yeah, if it came down to Air Jesus or Sanders, I’m taking Sanders every day of the week and twice on sundays.
Jake Kumerow is someone who etched out an important role on Special Teams, an aspect Sanders does not provide. This is the main reason he was re-signed this offseason. WR's on the bottom of the depth chart are more often than not there for that reason. While Kumerow and McKenzie were re-signed (and Jamison Crowder was added), Sanders was not.
We will be adding WR's in the Draft. There will not be a spot for Sanders. This idea that we're keeping a spot open on the roster for a guy who's going back and forth on whether to retire isn't likely.
2 hours ago, mrags said:You must watch CNN a lot.
Not sure how you got here on a football post or what you're trying to get across by this - but I really don't think I have anything more to say to you.
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20 minutes ago, mrags said:
I, 100% believe that Sanders and Hughes will be back after the draft. Maybe before TC starts. As vet minimum contract guys. Hughes will end up being the 10th DL and Sanders will be the 6th-7th WR. Just my opinion and I’m fully on board with it.
Yeah, no. I made a post a couple above this outlining why Hughes really makes no sense outside of the viewpoint of a fans liking the guy. And you don't sign someone for just that reason alone.
And as far as Sanders goes, he said this on "Good Morning Football":
Quote"And the last time I spoke to him the last thing I said … 'I'll see you next year after you win the Super Bowl' and I believe it. He tried to get me to come back and I'm like, 'Man, my knees, and everything, I don't know,' but I believe Josh Allen will definitely win the MVP."
Beane and McDermott are looking for speed in the WR core. Sanders vacant roster spot in the WR room will be drafted.
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Cole Beasley wanted out of Buffalo and New York State. He's NOT coming back.
Quote“I think the Covid thing, I mean we all know he had a strong stance,” Bills general manager Brandon Beane said on Friday. “And I think it just, it was tough on him, it was tough on his family."
“Not everyone agreed with some of his comments or his viewpoints – and I’m not talking about in the building,” Beane said. “And he just felt that maybe a change for he and his family would be best if we could find the right spot.”
“He did some really good things here,” Beane said. “You know we want people to want to be here, and make sure it’s right. I’m not gonna – didn’t feel it was right to force him if he didn’t feel he and his family thought it would be a great fit for him at this point. So, ultimately, we also needed the cap space at that point, and we decided once we made some of these moves that it was time to let him see if he could find a different spot.”
Jerry Hughes is a romantic idea, but not a very likely one. He'd be returning for literal pennies on the dollar to be a reserve player and taking a back seat to Von Miller, after spending about a decade as a Defensive captain and the unquestioned leader of the DE room.
Von Miller entering is a changing of the guard there. I don't think the team and maybe even Von himself would want the presence of Hughes looming over Von while he acclimates himself as the new leader of that room. It would be like being hired as a manger somewhere and the person who held that role for a decade stayed on as an associate under you.
And at the end of the day, I think Hughes has declined massively. Edge Rusher is one of the premier positions in Football that people kill for. The fact he hasn't gotten a sniff at a significant role on another team by this point speaks volumes.
All in all, the move makes no sense from Hughes' or the Bills position, once you take fan emotion out of it. And fans really liking someone as a person and liking the idea of him being in the building when we win a Super Bowl is not a logical reason to sign someone.
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The thing with Aaron Maybin is that he was always looked at as a "boom or bust" prospect when we took him with the 11th pick. He was a one year wonder and only played two years of College.
Mike Williams was considered a "can't miss" prospect with All Pro potential and we took him 4th overall.
Maybin's running away with it and to me, it's obviously Mike Williams and it's not even close.
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2 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:
In this thread you've posited that an Achilles tear somehow has a...shorter NFL recovery timetable than an ACL (which is bonkers at least in terms of functional high-end athleticism; that injury means a FULL year before someone is right again, if they ever get it all back). ACLs have become rote. So obviously you're hyper-concerned about the CB depth chart (or want the Bills to draft a different position) and the injury is exacerbating things for you (which is at least a little understandable).
But here, in the quoted post, you write that "(FOR WHATEVER REASON) [Tre] waited over two weeks before doing the surgery" (all emphases mine). So now there is something else going on. Now, suddenly, you're ignoring myriad reasonable contexts surrounding significant injuries (such as inflammation (most common complication), infection, conflicting medical opinions, etc.) to, I guess, introduce further doubt about Tre, or the team, or both? Or just to reinforce your own fears (or conflicting draft desires). I don't know. But two weeks between significant injury/trauma and high-stakes surgery is NOT noteworthy.
I think you're reading too much into my wording of "for whatever reason". It wasn't as deep as you're implying. Simply stating he got it done two weeks later for reasons unknown to me. Reasons that could be what you pointed out.
But my point was, that it's an added two weeks to his recovery time. Meaning if Doctors don't recommend someone returning to full contact participation before 9 months, that would mean the difference between being able to return to on field work just before the start of the season and a couple weeks into the season.
As for the Achilles v. ACL discussion - I never implied that it meant Ike Boettger would be 100% what he was. Simply that there have been advances in Achilles rehabilitation that have proven large dividends recently. Cam Akers returned from injury in 5 months this past season.
Also and more importantly, the chances of re-tearing an Achilles are less than re-injuring an ACL, especially a rushed ACL recovery. Which is why I think Ike's recovery time will be less than Tre's. Especially when you consider Tre's importance to the team versus Ike's.
QuoteThe rate of re-rupture of Achilles tendon after surgical treatment were reported to 1.7–5.6% previously.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3981436/
QuoteReturning to knee-strenuous sport before 9 months after ACL reconstruction was associated with an approximately 7 fold increased rate of sustaining a second ACL injury.
https://mobilityfit.com/why-we-suggest-return-to-sport-9-months-after-acl-repair-versus-6-months/
My ultimate take is this - one can HOPE for the best possible outcome. But to expect it and bank on it by not ensuring the position is foolish. Especially to take the stance that he's definitely going to be practicing in Training Camp and be returning by the start of the season.
RD 1, Pick 23: CB Kaiir Elam, Florida
in The Stadium Wall
Posted · Edited by BillsFanForever19
Wouldn't surprise me either. My stance is that none of these guys left over are someone you count on as anything more than spot duty at this point. I was referring to fans who were saying we just sign Joe Haden or Xavier Rhodes and we were good to go without having to Draft anyone.