BillsFanForever19

Way to dig back to a post from January to dig on this year's version of Tremaine Edmunds, amongst hyperbolic posters of this board. "Useless bum" is a bit of a reach.

This is a good point. We're currently sitting at 17 Lineman. We generally only keep 9 on the 53. In addition to the signings of Connor McGovern and David Edwards, the drafting of O'Cyrus Torrence and Nick Broeker, and the re-signing of David Quessenberry - there's been under the radar moves like the re-signing of Ike Boettger, the signing of Kevin Jarvis, bringing back Greg Mancz, and signing two of the top 9 available UDFA OT's (according to NFL.com) A lot of work has been done on the OL already. Not convinced Beane feels he needs to do more there, given the cap situation we're in. But I wouldn't be opposed.

Spencer Brown will not be outright replaced. Beane has been adamant since the end of last season that he has full faith in him and that he accounts his regression in Year 2 to his having back surgery and missing the entire offseason. Then being dinged up with other injuries midseason. There's definite logic in that. He said from the end of the year he just wanted depth behind him. And when it came down to what we could afford and what he thought the best fit there was, he chose bringing back Quessenberry. And then didn't even Draft an OT at all. I do think we should look at another OT. With Tommy Doyle having torn his ACL and then playing an entire game on his torn ACL on 9/27 - pretty sure he'll be on the PUP to start the year. Meaning the 4th OT is right now someone like Richard Gouraige, Ryan Van Denmark, or Alec Anderson. Ike Boettger and Nick Broeker are Guards. Beane may very well be fine with Dawkins and Brown as our Starters with Quessenberry as the swing Tackle behind both and someone like Gouraige, Van Denmark, or Anderson behind him - until Doyle is ready. I'd like to see us bring in something a little more though. But if we do, it's not going to be a Starter to compete and usurp Brown. I don't think Beane's even looking at RT as a competition spot. It would be another small Quessenberry like deal. And when it comes to additions at this point, we really have to temper expectations. After Poona Ford and Latavius Murray, we're going to have to come up with some money just to sign our Draft Picks. Getting money to sign our picks, someone like Roullier, another solid OT, AND a solid DE is an impossibility right now. We've been thrift shopping ever since signing McGovern and Harty (because we have to) and I don't see that changing this late into Free Agency, after everything we already had to do to tweak the cap to get done what we've done. And I'd doubt they'd sign Roullier to be the backup Center and keep Bates. I think signing Roullier would spell the end for Bates, who is our Backup Center. Especially if he is beaten out by Torrence or Edwards on the Starting Lineup at Guard. We'd probably move him to someone rather than pay him what we're paying to be our 4th OG and 3rd Center. And I don't know that Beane is looking at Bates as an expendable piece that needs upgrading from.

Yes, he was. But when they were talking to Yannick, they determined they'd rather pay vet minimum for Shaq than sign Yannick. It remains to be seen what he will be paid when he does sign. But I'd bet his price tag isn't going to go down so significantly that they'd sign him on top of Shaq. Generally Beane makes his decision at a position and that's that. That's why I'm not convinced he'll even do anything else at the position. Especially given our cap situation and following signing Ford and Murray. As it is, if he signed someone, he'd have to unload Basham as we won't carry 6. I don't know that he's looking to do that with a guy he drafted in the 2nd just two years ago. Question for you: you seem to be laser focused on Ngakoue. But there's a list of 8 difference makers that would be an upgrade for us. As I said, I think the #1 available FA is less likely than some of the other DE's available. Is it Yannick or nothing for you?

Now you've gone and done it. Your DM's are about to be flooded by people asking you about DeAndre Hopkins now. That's almost certainly what happened. And I'd find it hard to believe they chose to pay Shaq instead and then will double back and get Ngakoue too. By all accounts, Von is on schedule to not miss any time or at most a game or two. And we chose to re-sign Shaq when we had all of these options available to us knowing the situation we're in. As you said, knowing the "thrifty" situation we're in and have been in, I just find it hard to believe that we'll go in on Yannick, who is considered by many to be not only the top DE Free Agent - but THE top FA available over all. Not to beat a dead horse. But I truly feel if Beane is going to address the position at all, it's going to be when the musical chairs stop on the Top 8 guys and we'll get someone who will have no choice but to settle for not only a rotational role, but one at a thrift store price. Less likely to be an Ngakoue, Floyd, Ingram, or Clark and more likely to be a Houston, Clowney, Quinn, or Dunlap.

With all due respect to @HappyDays - I don't think that was an insider tip. We had Murray in very recently for a visit Pre-Draft, needed a 4th RB, didn't Draft one, and Beane said veteran moves were coming. I had heard from you or someone else that we had contacted him at some point. I was wondering if it was before or after we signed Shaq. The fact that we contacted him and then signed Shaq is another sign to me on the unlikelihood of it happening.

Yeah, Social Media follows, likes, and comments are meaningless. They're all friends and colleagues and are just commenting specifically on the posts their friends and colleagues make. Players don't go "we might have a chance at this guy, let me just start commenting on their stuff". In this case it was Nyheim Hines, his former teammate at Indianapolis and Von Miller, whom Yannick attends the Pass Rush summit with every year.

I mean, I'm not saying it's a TOTAL impossibility that we could get him. I'm just saying it's extremely unlikely, in my opinion. I don't see how he would sign to be a rotational rusher for us over being a Starter on any other team. It would be a bad career move that his agents would surely advise against. And I just don't see a way that no team in the league isn't going to offer him one of their 2 starting spots on the Edge - something we will not offer. And even in the unlikely event that there wasn't a starting job out there for him, there are surely teams that can offer more money than we can right now. Again, it's not a total impossibility. Maybe Floyd, Ingram, and Clark get scooped up by teams that need Starters first. Maybe the teams left that want him to start are so wretched that he decides he'd rather be rotational for a Contender for less money and less playing time. But yeah, I think that's pretty unlikely. Yannick Ngakoue is the #1 available Free Agent in all of Football. I don't see him having to settle. Much more likely that we'd land a Houston, Clowney, Quinn, or Dunlap. And any of them would be an upgrade over Shaq, Epenesa, or Basham as the #3. That is, if Beane is looking to sign a DE at all. Which with Von on schedule to not miss any time and us having re-signed Shaq, I'm not totally convinced he will.

Everything you've said about Yannick is true. He IS still an Elite Pass Rusher. He's the #1 Pass Rusher still available. He's the #1 Free Agent available in the NFL of ALL positions, according to Pro Football Talk's Top 100 Free Agents. Which means he's going to start somewhere. He's not still on the market because there's no one who wants him. He's still on the market because there's been a log jam of available DE's asking for a decent payday. DE needy teams could afford to wait to see how the Draft played out for them because there were so many available. Now that it's over, whomever didn't adequately address the position and walk away with a starter will now be returning to the logjam list and he's going to be the first one starter needy teams will want. Hell, there's probably teams who have Starters in place that would sign him as an upgrade over a Starter they have, simply because they can and their starters are weaker than ours. I think it's possible we sign one of the 8 big name Pass Rushers left. But Ngakoue will have an opportunity to start elsewhere. We'll get whomever is left without an opportunity to start when the musical chairs stops and will be happy to take the meager role and meager money we have to offer, simply to play this season. That player is MUCH more likely to be a Houston, Clowney, Quinn, or Dunlap than an Ngakoue, Floyd, Ingram, or Clark. And there's certainly no way Ngakoue signs a long term deal to be a #3 for years to come. Even if he couldn't find a starting job this year (which is highly unlikely to me), he'd want to try and find a starting job next year.

Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown, Edwards, Quessenberry are locks. That's 7. We'll probably keep 9 total. That's the standard number McBeane usually keeps. Bates is a lock, unless he's traded. He's the only Guard we have that we'd be able to move and has value. I could see a scenario where Torrence beats him out for the RG spot right out of camp and either Broeker or Boettger are looking good enough that they feel comfortable with one of them being the final Guard on the depth chart. Probably give the edge to Boettger as he can play Backup Center. But yeah, Bates or either Broeker or Boettger to go along with McGovern, Torrence, and Edwards will make up our Guards, bringing the total to 8. The real question is who will be our 4th OT? Dawkins, Brown, and Quessenberry will be here. But Tommy Doyle completely tore his ACL 9/27 of last year and played an entire game on it. Almost certain he'll be put on the PUP. So do they feel good about Gouraige (or one of the futures signings) in the short term or are we going to bring in another OT? I think we may. And if we do, they'll surely be the 4th OT and the final member of the OL on the 53. As for the starting Line, it's clearly Dawkins - McGovern - Morse - Bates/Torrence/Edwards (whoever wins the job) - Brown Edwards isn't being traded. You don't sign a veteran to a 1 year deal in Free Agency and then say "thanks for choosing us, but now we're trading you somewhere else that you didn't choose and you don't have a say in it". Would set a bad precedent for anyone wanting to sign here in the future. As I said above, the only moveable OG piece is Bates. But it would take Torrence or Edwards winning the job and being comfortable having Boettger or Broeker as the 4th guy (and one of the Guards being able to be backup Center, as Bates is now). I suppose if someone wanted to trade for Boettger, he could be moved. But I don't see anyone giving up anything for him.

You do understand we weren't getting higher than a 3rd Round Pick in exchange for Edmunds on a 1 year, 13 million dollar contract last season, right? You say we "got nothing". But we got last year out of him AND a 3rd Round Draft Pick out of it. That's more than we would have got trading him. It's the same thing with Oliver. We're either getting him back or another team overpays for him and we'll get a 3rd Round Pick for him. And we'll have him for this season. There isn't a DT left on the market who wouldn't be a dropoff from him this season. So we'd be short changing ourselves for nothing. Oliver was never going to be traded. If he were, it would be for peanuts. Teams don't trade for guys on one year deals that want to hit the market. If it were to have happened, it would have been by now to fill holes that we've already filled between FA and the Draft. As for the team never carrying more than 4 DT's on the roster, that's simply false. We brought guys like Eli Ankou, C.J. Brewer, and Brandin Bryant up from the Practice Squad last season. I remember having 6 on the active roster at one point just last year. 2021 we started the season with Ed Oliver, Star Lotulelei, Harrison Phillips, Vernon Butler, and Justin Zimmer. So yeah, saying we've never carried more than 4 is not only wrong, it's fairly common for us to carry 5.

Say it with me people... Ed Oliver Won't Be Traded

Hey man, live your life. Believe the unbelievable. Hope for the unattainable. I don't know how it would be enjoyable to always get your hopes dashed because they're not based in reality. But do you brother. So often even the most realistic hopes lead to a let down. So I like to stay grounded in reality and the board I frequent not dissolving into nonsense. But maybe that's a me problem.

My dude - you are once again getting Madden level unrealistic. If we're able to get one guy from the list, that's huge. And I'm not convinced we'll even do that. But I'd be here for it. We don't keep 6 DE's on the 53. It's 5 max. And as I said above, Ngakoue will be one the first signed DE's and way more likely than not, to be a starter for someone. If we do this, it's going to be when the dust settles on the position and someone's willing to settle for the little we can pay and a situational non-starting role. There is zero chance we a.) Would pay the cost of an Ngakoue or Ingram to be our 4th DE, after bringing in the other to go along with Von and Rousseau (not to mention having already signed Shaq) and b.) That Ngakoue or Ingram would sign here to be the 4th Pass Rusher under Von, Rousseau, and either Ingram or Ngakoue. Both of those guys can start on other teams and would be accepting, at worst, the 3rd role for someone. I think getting one of them is unrealistic as they represent 2 of the top 4 available DE's I have in Tier 1. As I said above, I think either Houston, Quinn, Clowney, or Dunlap is more in line with a guy that will have to settle for the minimal amount of money we'd offer and the situational pass rush role we'd have for them. Getting Ingram alone would be a shocking massive win. Getting both of them is a fantasy.

Clark is a retched human being. Not a guy they'd bring into the locker room. Yannick (and Floyd) are the top tier of the available DE list. They'll be the first to be signed and will more than likely start for someone and be paid heftier than we're looking to pay. If we grab a guy, it's going to be who's left when the logjam gets settled and there's an option looking to settle for what we want to pay and the situational role we have to offer. Maybe that will be Ingram. But more likely a Houston, Quinn, Clowney, or Dunlap.

It's like fans that want Oliver traded and Edmunds before that. They can have their opinions and hopes for roster management. But if they don't line up with Beane's words and actions, they're deluding themselves if they believe the change they want is going to come. Like you said, Beane isn't looking to outright replace Brown. He's said it time and again. Just depth and competition. And not the type of competition that costs a ton and would be a replacement move. Whether certain fans agree with that or not is a moot point.

Shouldn't be hoping for a midseason trade. If we're doing that, it would be because one of our top options like Diggs got injured. If it were to happen, which it won't, this regime wouldn't want him coming in cold and learning the playbook midseason. They'd want him for the Offseason to get acclimated. McDermott barely felt comfortable using Hines much and RB is a much easier position to get down than the route tree for WR in our playbook. Arizona doesn't want to trade him. They don't need to trade him given their cap situation. They don't want to move him cheap. They don't want to take on any money as part of the deal. Beane moved on and Drafted a Receiving weapon in Round 1 and another WR in Round 5, to go with the the 2 other WR's we signed alongside Diggs, Davis, and Shakir. We have 6 WR's already etched in stone. We don't have the money. He's not interested. And Hopkins has raised the white flag and come around to Arizona. This is deader than a doornail.

Not a chance. He didn't completely tear his ACL and need a reconstruction like Tre. He had a partial tear and a repair. He's on pace to not miss any time. If they're overly cautious, he'd just miss a game or two. But from the sounds of Beane and him, he'll be ready Week 1.

That's just gas.

I mean, anything's possible. But I have to imagine Ditka was the #1 Pass Catcher on that offense. Going to be hard to duplicate those kind of numbers when you're playing on a team with Stefon Diggs amongst other viable targets.

Oh man - please tell me that you're not still looking at the ErieCountyBulls Twitter account 🤦

Morris was #54 and my last cut. Ultimately I decided that with Kincaid added, Gilliam could cover both FB and blocking on the line as a "TE" in certain packages that have Harris blocking in the backfield. I'd hope we could get Morris back on the Practice Squad, in the event of an injury to Knox, Kincaid, or Gilliam. Doyle having torn his ACL completely (as opposed to Von's partial tear and partial repair) and playing on it for an entire game on 9/27/22 - I imagine he'll start the year on the PUP. Spector is simply odd man out. Even Dodson was #53 for me and I had a scenario where we only kept 5 LB's and kept Morris. Ultimately, there's no room for Spector. We won't keep more than 6 LB's and he can't make it above any of the 6. Milano, Bernard and Williams (2 3rd Rounders), Klein, Dodson, and Matakevitch (ST Captain) all take priority. Much like Morris, I think we'd try and get Spector back for the PS. I could foresee (and in some cases borderline expect) the following scenarios that would change the roster in its current state: - Bates is traded for a pick and Boettger or Broeker is the final OG. - Another veteran OT being signed and Gouraige is off the 53. - Another Edge Rusher added and Basham is traded for a pick.

Lol no - for some reason when I linked to my Oliver post, it ended posting it above the link and spaced out. I've since edited the post to just be the link. Don't know why it did that.

I think anyone who has followed this saga and didn't see Beane shutting it down, the Arizona GM saying he's not trading him, not trading him on Draft Day, and the final coffin of Hopkins publicly coming around to staying in Arizona as this being dead is at the absolute least, completely delusional. As for where we're "top heavy", it's called better depth than we had. At RB, OG, and DT - we're in better shape than we were last season. And we needed to be given what each position gave us last season. You don't put yourself in a better situation and then say "eh, we don't need all of this, let's short change ourselves". RB is perfect right now. We've always carried 4 RB's on the 53. We have 4 RB's right now. Murray had a good year last year, but it was all in relief of injured players called up from the Practice Squad. At his age, that's what his role is right now. Cook, Harris, and Hines are going nowhere. OG was one of our weakest positions for years. We lost Saffold and brought in McGovern, Torrence, and Edwards. We now have a Starting calibur OG no matter the situation. Why would you want to change that? Even if we were to move, say Bates, it would have nothing to do with Hopkins. As for DT and specifically Oliver, that's not going to happen either. Oliver isn't going anywhere. I spoke in depth about why here: https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/247138-poona-ford-signing-with-the-bills/?do=findComment&comment=8388259

It's not a confirmed fact that the league looks at him as just a situational pass rusher this year after starting every game last season. That's just your opinion. And based on recent history, that's an opinion that isn't based in statistics. There was a log jam of available talent surely asking for large amounts of money and a number of teams that would address their need at DE in the Draft. Him being available now has more to do with that than meaning no one thinks he can start anymore. Now that the Draft has ended, teams that weren't able to land a high pedigree DE will revisit the list of those available. Ngakoue is in Tier 1 of that list. Surely not all of them will get starting roles. But Ngakoue will assuredly have better options for more playing time elsewhere than rotational behind Von Miller and Greg Rousseau, even in the event he doesn't start the season on the top of someone's depth chart - which I still believe is likely. Again, with the role we're offering (if were even looking at DE at all, after bringing back Shaq and Miller on pace to not miss any time), it's going to be for someone who is desperate for pennies on the dollar. Of that list, Ngakoue is one of the, if not THE, least likely option to become desperate.