BillsFanForever19

He started every game he played last season for the Cowboys. He signed a 3 year, 23 million dollar deal with us. If he was as bad as you claim he is, we wouldn't have had to pay that much. We had to pay that much because there was competition for his services. Again, if he was as bad as you say he was - there wouldn't be competition for his services. He played well last season and has a lot of impressive traits and skills. This is a good piece breaking him down: https://theathletic.com/4340812/2023/03/24/bills-connor-mcgovern-deonte-harty/ Long story short, as usual, you're being hyperbolic in your review. I think the Cover1 guys were on to something. The drafting of O'Cyrus Torrence may have been less about replacing Ryan Bates and more about being competition for Spencer Brown. And at the very least, insurance in the event that he doesn't take the next step or Mitch Morse can't stay healthy. I wasn't advocating for the Bills to trade Ryan Bates. I actually would prefer that they don't. But the fact is he is being paid a lot of money at a position where we have 3 starting players already in McGovern, Torrence, and Edwards and will only keep 4. If a team is willing to take his contract off our hands and give us a Draft Pick - he's the only real moveable piece. But again, I'd prefer to simply keep him as he could fill in anywhere on the line.

Before last season started, I remember saying time and again "the only thing that can stop us is injuries". I truly felt that losing Tre to an ACL injury was the difference between us going to the Super Bowl and dropping to the Chiefs in the fashion we did. With him at 100%, I feel, it wouldn't have come down to :13 seconds. When Micah went down when he did, I immediately thought "that could be the difference between making the Super Bowl and not". Then it seemed every single week, we were losing someone. When we'd get someone back, we'd lose someone else. We went from being relatively healthy for years to completely snake bitten last season. It's a miracle we performed as well as we did with all the injuries. And when Von went down for the year before the playoffs, I remember saying "it's over". Then Damar Hamlin happened and I think what that did to our team mentally cannot be understated. All that said, I still expected a better end than what we got. The good news is - this season our depth is better pretty much across the board to handle a situation like we had last year. I sincerely hope we are luckier than we were last season. It would be insane if it were worse.

I think our roster makeup wasn't the main issue for our team not making it to the Super Bowl last season. It was injuries and insane circumstances being too much to overcome. That said, I think the roster is in better shape than it was last season. - We didn't have RB's for every situation. Singletary, Cook, and Hines were all very similar backs. With the additions of Damien Harris and Latavius Murray - our RB core is diversified. - Our Pass Catchers were lacking beyond Diggs, Davis, and Knox. When Davis got banged up and Crowder went down, we had to do things like trot out Jake Kumerow and sign guys who were toast like Brown and Beasley. With the additions of Kincaid (who will be more WR than TE), Harty, Sherfield, and Shorter (as well as Shakir with the training wheels off), we're in a much better position of depth and taking pressure off Diggs. - Our Interior OL was a liability. Bates was fine, but between Saffold's play and Morse's injuries (which had us playing Greg Van Roten on the line) - the middle of the line was a massive problem. With Saffold and Van Roten gone and the additions of McGovern, Torrence, and Edwards - we now have 4 starting quality Guards. If Morse is to go down, Bates will play with Torrence or Edwards next to him. This will help in the run game and protection massively. - Injuries and lack of depth ravaged our D-Line's ability to stop the run. Miller will return from injury this season. Jordan Phillips was a very good run stuffer. But he was injured too frequently. Now we have him back and if he's injured again, we've added solid run stuffer Poona Ford to the mix of what we had last season. - Safety was a massive problem. When you lose Micah Hyde for the year early in the season, you're behind the 8 Ball. Especially when there's a massive drop off in talent between your starters and your backups. And especially with Poyer than getting injured and what happened to Hamlin. This season we get Poyer and Hyde back 100% And now if we lose one of them, we have Taylor Rapp coming into the Lineup, who is an accomplished Starter - as opposed to times last season where we were rolling out Cam Lewis and Dean Marlowe. I don't think it's accurate to say Beane is concerned about MLB. Fans are worried. But Beane's actions in FA and the Draft juxtaposed with what he's said everytime it's brought up says he's done what he wants to do there. He drafted Bernard with a Day 2 pick last year. He wants to see if that investment pays dividends. He signed AJ Klein and Tyrel Dodson back as vet insurance. Then he Drafted Dorian Williams in the 3rd this year, who has the flexibility to play both Outside and Inside. If he planned on doing more than what he's done, he'd have done it already. And if he didn't like Williams in the Draft, he'd have either moved up from the 3rd to get a Drew Sanders or a Trent Simpson or not drafted Williams at all. Again, I think MLB is just where Beane wants it this year. It's fans that are worried about it.

I agree he has too much value to move, in my opinion. But could they? If someone like Chicago (who signed him to the deal) wants to take him on, save us the cap space, and give us a Draft pick AND we're comfortable with Boettger playing backup Center and 4th OG behind McGovern, Torrence, and Edwards - I could see it. But I think I'd rather keep him. And I heard an interesting theory on Cover1. Bates plays Guard and Center, but he started his career in College and the NFL as a Tackle. A big part of Bates' value is his versatility to play any spot on the Line. That said, one of them theorized maybe they look at Bates as the Spencer Brown insurance at RT that fans think we don't have. If Brown begins to struggle again, maybe it will be Torrence and Bates on the Right side.

I think you're misinterpreting that young lady's tweet. She's not saying she thinks it's a bad look. She's saying the opposite.

What I'm saying is if it were "done deal" territory, then it would have happened. That would mean Beane was agreeable to the asking price. The only way that he'd back out is if the price was upped. He's a firm Poker player. He sets his price and doesn't budge from it. Either it was nowhere close to what Ertz is describing or Philadelphia changed the terms.

"It was almost a done deal, but it just didn't get to the finish line" makes me wonder what happened. Beane's not going to get to "done deal" territory and then not pull the trigger. I'd bet Phili got cold feet and upped their asking price in the 11th hour.

Then why even sign him at all? Why make a point of signing him instead of Drafting a guy in the 6th and making a point of doing so during the Draft?

I'm not saying he's an absolute lock. But less than 50, I don't see that. Like I said, we signed him instead of Drafting a RB. We always keep 4 RB's on the roster. Cook, Harris, and Hines will be active on Game Day. But if we try and stash him on the Practice Squad, he's going to walk if given the opportunity to sign on anyone's 53 who has a RB injured. And then we're one injury at the position away from having no one. If Jordan Mims shows out in the Pre-Season, maybe we can feel safe stashing both of them and if we lose one, we still have the other. But I really feel given the way Beane has spoken and the situation that odds are definitely more in the favor of him being here than risking losing him on the PS.

He had ONE game with significant snaps in his Rookie year on Defense. 59 snaps in a Week 9 against the Jets. He had a grand total of 109 snaps on Defense all season. The idea that they would cut a 3rd Round pick after 1 season that he barely played in is ridiculous. There's no way Beane would do that. He's still learning and developing.

He might not be a lock to take the Starting role. But he's absolutely a lock to make the 53. You don't spend a 3rd Round pick on a guy, bring him along slowly as a Rookie, and then cut him before his 2nd season. That's a waste of an investment. Day 2 Picks are going to at least get 2 years and probably won't be cut at all unless there's off the field issues.

There's no way Von starts on PUP. His recovery and what he had done isn't the same as Tre's. By all accounts, he's not expected to miss any time. He's said at worst a game or two. They aren't going to shut him down for a guaranteed 6 games. If Beane felt that was the case, we'd have done more at DE. As for Murray, we've always kept 4 RB's on the 53. Beane called his agents on Draft Day and told them that if he signed with them, he wouldn't Draft a RB. While I see the logic in carrying 3, keeping someone like Morris, and stashing Murray on the PS - I don't see them doing that. Any team in the league could have a player injured and playing time available to Murray and he'd be gone. He wouldn't stick around on a PS and give up the chance to play for someone else. I do like Morris. But I feel that Gilliam could get more reps and cover Morris' role switching between behind the line blocking and on the line blocking when Harris (a solid run blocker) is in the Backfield. While I could see a scenario where Spector makes the roster over a Dodson or Klein, I don't see it as likely. We keep 5 LB's, 6 max. With the uncertainty at MLB, I see us keeping 6. Milano, Bernard and Williams (recent 3rd Round picks), and Tyler Matakevitch (core ST) are locks. That's 4 of the 6. Then I give Klein and Dodson the edge over Spector. I think we'd try and bring Spector back to the PS. But Klein and Dodson are more valuable at the moment.

I get Bernard was a little bit of a reach. I get he had training wheels on all last season, mainly playing ST's, and not looking like a Rookie who had it all figured out Day 1. But y'all are out of pocket voting for Baylon Spector more than Bernard. The competition is really Bernard v. Klein v. Dodson. And more likely either Bernard shows he's ready or they just go with the safe option in Klein. Williams is going to try training at both positions and Beane said if that's too much for him, they'll have him focus on OLB. Doubt with how McDermott brings Rookies along he'll be in the conversation to start at MLB in Training Camp. But who knows, maybe he'll look undeniable. Either way, barring injuries, I don't even see Spector making the 53. We keep 5 LB's, 6 max on the active roster. And I don't see a spot for him with Milano, Bernard, Williams, Klein, Dodson, and Matakevitch (Core ST's) all above him.

This. They drafted Bernard with a 3rd last season. Beane wants to see if he can be the guy and get a return on the investment. They re-signed AJ Klein and Tyrel Dodson as insurance and doubled down in Drafting Dorian Williams (who can play both Middle and Outside). Whether or not anyone thinks that's enough - that's what he's done with the position. A Draft Pick last year, 2 re-signings, and another Draft pick this year. He's addressed MLB a lot more than people think. Posters are acting like Kylo Ren with the "more, more, MORE!" meme across the board. Asking for a top DE, a MLB trade, a WR trade, an OT, a Center, and/or another QB. At this stage, after the Poona Ford and Latavius Murray signings, we need to come up with some money, again, after scraping the well over and over already, just to sign our Draft Picks. Maybe there's a small finishing touch for depth here or there. But until we do something like an extension or two at DT - I wouldn't expect much, if anything more.

Beane isn't the type to sign more than one veteran to have a competition for the backup job. He picks one guy in Free Agency and that's the guy. Whether or not you think we could do better than Kyle Allen - he's the backup.

Way to dig back to a post from January to dig on this year's version of Tremaine Edmunds, amongst hyperbolic posters of this board. "Useless bum" is a bit of a reach.

This is a good point. We're currently sitting at 17 Lineman. We generally only keep 9 on the 53. In addition to the signings of Connor McGovern and David Edwards, the drafting of O'Cyrus Torrence and Nick Broeker, and the re-signing of David Quessenberry - there's been under the radar moves like the re-signing of Ike Boettger, the signing of Kevin Jarvis, bringing back Greg Mancz, and signing two of the top 9 available UDFA OT's (according to NFL.com) A lot of work has been done on the OL already. Not convinced Beane feels he needs to do more there, given the cap situation we're in. But I wouldn't be opposed.

Spencer Brown will not be outright replaced. Beane has been adamant since the end of last season that he has full faith in him and that he accounts his regression in Year 2 to his having back surgery and missing the entire offseason. Then being dinged up with other injuries midseason. There's definite logic in that. He said from the end of the year he just wanted depth behind him. And when it came down to what we could afford and what he thought the best fit there was, he chose bringing back Quessenberry. And then didn't even Draft an OT at all. I do think we should look at another OT. With Tommy Doyle having torn his ACL and then playing an entire game on his torn ACL on 9/27 - pretty sure he'll be on the PUP to start the year. Meaning the 4th OT is right now someone like Richard Gouraige, Ryan Van Denmark, or Alec Anderson. Ike Boettger and Nick Broeker are Guards. Beane may very well be fine with Dawkins and Brown as our Starters with Quessenberry as the swing Tackle behind both and someone like Gouraige, Van Denmark, or Anderson behind him - until Doyle is ready. I'd like to see us bring in something a little more though. But if we do, it's not going to be a Starter to compete and usurp Brown. I don't think Beane's even looking at RT as a competition spot. It would be another small Quessenberry like deal. And when it comes to additions at this point, we really have to temper expectations. After Poona Ford and Latavius Murray, we're going to have to come up with some money just to sign our Draft Picks. Getting money to sign our picks, someone like Roullier, another solid OT, AND a solid DE is an impossibility right now. We've been thrift shopping ever since signing McGovern and Harty (because we have to) and I don't see that changing this late into Free Agency, after everything we already had to do to tweak the cap to get done what we've done. And I'd doubt they'd sign Roullier to be the backup Center and keep Bates. I think signing Roullier would spell the end for Bates, who is our Backup Center. Especially if he is beaten out by Torrence or Edwards on the Starting Lineup at Guard. We'd probably move him to someone rather than pay him what we're paying to be our 4th OG and 3rd Center. And I don't know that Beane is looking at Bates as an expendable piece that needs upgrading from.

Yes, he was. But when they were talking to Yannick, they determined they'd rather pay vet minimum for Shaq than sign Yannick. It remains to be seen what he will be paid when he does sign. But I'd bet his price tag isn't going to go down so significantly that they'd sign him on top of Shaq. Generally Beane makes his decision at a position and that's that. That's why I'm not convinced he'll even do anything else at the position. Especially given our cap situation and following signing Ford and Murray. As it is, if he signed someone, he'd have to unload Basham as we won't carry 6. I don't know that he's looking to do that with a guy he drafted in the 2nd just two years ago. Question for you: you seem to be laser focused on Ngakoue. But there's a list of 8 difference makers that would be an upgrade for us. As I said, I think the #1 available FA is less likely than some of the other DE's available. Is it Yannick or nothing for you?

Now you've gone and done it. Your DM's are about to be flooded by people asking you about DeAndre Hopkins now. That's almost certainly what happened. And I'd find it hard to believe they chose to pay Shaq instead and then will double back and get Ngakoue too. By all accounts, Von is on schedule to not miss any time or at most a game or two. And we chose to re-sign Shaq when we had all of these options available to us knowing the situation we're in. As you said, knowing the "thrifty" situation we're in and have been in, I just find it hard to believe that we'll go in on Yannick, who is considered by many to be not only the top DE Free Agent - but THE top FA available over all. Not to beat a dead horse. But I truly feel if Beane is going to address the position at all, it's going to be when the musical chairs stop on the Top 8 guys and we'll get someone who will have no choice but to settle for not only a rotational role, but one at a thrift store price. Less likely to be an Ngakoue, Floyd, Ingram, or Clark and more likely to be a Houston, Clowney, Quinn, or Dunlap.

With all due respect to @HappyDays - I don't think that was an insider tip. We had Murray in very recently for a visit Pre-Draft, needed a 4th RB, didn't Draft one, and Beane said veteran moves were coming. I had heard from you or someone else that we had contacted him at some point. I was wondering if it was before or after we signed Shaq. The fact that we contacted him and then signed Shaq is another sign to me on the unlikelihood of it happening.

Yeah, Social Media follows, likes, and comments are meaningless. They're all friends and colleagues and are just commenting specifically on the posts their friends and colleagues make. Players don't go "we might have a chance at this guy, let me just start commenting on their stuff". In this case it was Nyheim Hines, his former teammate at Indianapolis and Von Miller, whom Yannick attends the Pass Rush summit with every year.

I mean, I'm not saying it's a TOTAL impossibility that we could get him. I'm just saying it's extremely unlikely, in my opinion. I don't see how he would sign to be a rotational rusher for us over being a Starter on any other team. It would be a bad career move that his agents would surely advise against. And I just don't see a way that no team in the league isn't going to offer him one of their 2 starting spots on the Edge - something we will not offer. And even in the unlikely event that there wasn't a starting job out there for him, there are surely teams that can offer more money than we can right now. Again, it's not a total impossibility. Maybe Floyd, Ingram, and Clark get scooped up by teams that need Starters first. Maybe the teams left that want him to start are so wretched that he decides he'd rather be rotational for a Contender for less money and less playing time. But yeah, I think that's pretty unlikely. Yannick Ngakoue is the #1 available Free Agent in all of Football. I don't see him having to settle. Much more likely that we'd land a Houston, Clowney, Quinn, or Dunlap. And any of them would be an upgrade over Shaq, Epenesa, or Basham as the #3. That is, if Beane is looking to sign a DE at all. Which with Von on schedule to not miss any time and us having re-signed Shaq, I'm not totally convinced he will.

Everything you've said about Yannick is true. He IS still an Elite Pass Rusher. He's the #1 Pass Rusher still available. He's the #1 Free Agent available in the NFL of ALL positions, according to Pro Football Talk's Top 100 Free Agents. Which means he's going to start somewhere. He's not still on the market because there's no one who wants him. He's still on the market because there's been a log jam of available DE's asking for a decent payday. DE needy teams could afford to wait to see how the Draft played out for them because there were so many available. Now that it's over, whomever didn't adequately address the position and walk away with a starter will now be returning to the logjam list and he's going to be the first one starter needy teams will want. Hell, there's probably teams who have Starters in place that would sign him as an upgrade over a Starter they have, simply because they can and their starters are weaker than ours. I think it's possible we sign one of the 8 big name Pass Rushers left. But Ngakoue will have an opportunity to start elsewhere. We'll get whomever is left without an opportunity to start when the musical chairs stops and will be happy to take the meager role and meager money we have to offer, simply to play this season. That player is MUCH more likely to be a Houston, Clowney, Quinn, or Dunlap than an Ngakoue, Floyd, Ingram, or Clark. And there's certainly no way Ngakoue signs a long term deal to be a #3 for years to come. Even if he couldn't find a starting job this year (which is highly unlikely to me), he'd want to try and find a starting job next year.

Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown, Edwards, Quessenberry are locks. That's 7. We'll probably keep 9 total. That's the standard number McBeane usually keeps. Bates is a lock, unless he's traded. He's the only Guard we have that we'd be able to move and has value. I could see a scenario where Torrence beats him out for the RG spot right out of camp and either Broeker or Boettger are looking good enough that they feel comfortable with one of them being the final Guard on the depth chart. Probably give the edge to Boettger as he can play Backup Center. But yeah, Bates or either Broeker or Boettger to go along with McGovern, Torrence, and Edwards will make up our Guards, bringing the total to 8. The real question is who will be our 4th OT? Dawkins, Brown, and Quessenberry will be here. But Tommy Doyle completely tore his ACL 9/27 of last year and played an entire game on it. Almost certain he'll be put on the PUP. So do they feel good about Gouraige (or one of the futures signings) in the short term or are we going to bring in another OT? I think we may. And if we do, they'll surely be the 4th OT and the final member of the OL on the 53. As for the starting Line, it's clearly Dawkins - McGovern - Morse - Bates/Torrence/Edwards (whoever wins the job) - Brown Edwards isn't being traded. You don't sign a veteran to a 1 year deal in Free Agency and then say "thanks for choosing us, but now we're trading you somewhere else that you didn't choose and you don't have a say in it". Would set a bad precedent for anyone wanting to sign here in the future. As I said above, the only moveable OG piece is Bates. But it would take Torrence or Edwards winning the job and being comfortable having Boettger or Broeker as the 4th guy (and one of the Guards being able to be backup Center, as Bates is now). I suppose if someone wanted to trade for Boettger, he could be moved. But I don't see anyone giving up anything for him.