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Except you are asking the wrong question(s).... Would you rather have Gronk or a DT with a bad back ...because you decided to switch to a 3-4 defense and just had to have a NT.? Would you rather have a QB or 432 DB's? This is a team that hasn't had a QB since Kelly retired..but has went 9 years on drafting a QB in the first round ...because there always seemed to be some DB that was a higher priority. We could have had a kick ass Oline AND a QB, and probably a pro bowl TE. But what's in the past is in the past... Good teams...Balt., NE, NO, and now Seattle and SF, seem to invest in their OL...and don't take the attittude of "eh, you can get OL anywhere". It isn't an either/or type situation. What Bama does isn't a huge secret, though I imagine tougher to implement than to conceptualize. While so many other college teams have went nuts with 4 and 5 wide spread offenses...with the hope of outscoring other teams... ...Bama cuts against the grain and builds through defense and their running game. They find DL big enough to not get pushed around. The find LB's strong enough to hold up to an OL but are still quick enough to cover; They build an OL strong enough to pound down a DL; They get running backs with enough size to break arm tackles at the 2nd level but are still quick enough to turn a corner; They will have at least one WR with speed enough to get deep and a QB good enough to get the ball downfield, but at the same time not create mistakes. Though their first option is to run...they have enough of a middle and deep passing game to keep a defense off balance..and exploit a mistake downfield.

He doesn't get nearly the credit he deserves as a coach, and the lasting legacy he provided to modern NFL defenses. The shifting, stunting 1 gap 3-4 defense he brought to the NFL is as much a legacy as the WCO is to NFL offenses. He just portrayed himself as a good ole boy, rather than a football guru. He was actually both.

“Not at all. Not at all,” said Nix, according to the Bills website. ”I know people have said we’re taking one of those top two guards. Our roster in house is better than I think we get credit for especially offensive line. We’re pretty deep there. We’ve got six guards and we think a couple of them can play.” http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/57578/bills-gm-buddy-nix-guard-not-a-need People actually believed him too.

I wouldn't say it necessarily stands either. They did take some steps in the right direction...limitedly. And...with the higher draft choices...they were showing improvment. Instead of building on that, or at least staying at pace,.they went right back to their MO. . To me, it even isn't so much that they didn't re-sign Levitre, though they certainly could have. Its that they did 0 to replace him. Well, he's no longer here..and they didn't replace him. Oh please. Let's stop pretending the Bils are smarter than other teams, especially when it comes to the OL. I've seen Pears and Urbik enough, and my opinion stands. Urbik needs help from the center, Pears can at least get in the way of a pass rusher for a second or two. All you have to do is watch where the pass rushers are when Fitz threw the ball. The PFF article didn't do anything but confirm what many already knew. And that's not all bad. I've thought for the past 2 years that they did a pretty good job of not letting anyone come in cleanly...getting a direct shot. But that's not the same as giving 3 seconds on a regular basis, and 4 or 5 seconds on occasion. How another QB is going to do, especially if you are wanting more deep patterns, remains to be seen. It shouldn't. And I explained it in my previous post...as well as earlier in this post. 1) They actually did a good job of not letting people in cleanly; 2) The ball came out quickly; 3) Levitre didn't need help. That left Wood free to help Urbik and/or pick up a blitz. When you remove the guy that doesn't need help from the equation, and replace him with someone that most likely will need help...things can, and usually do, change. If Wood is helping Legursky or Colin Brown, a blitzer comes in...or Urbik gets beat. OR a combination of the two. It can be a little more than..."ah, its only one guy." I don't know how they graded it. If it is power blocking, possibly, he never was a road grader. On the other hand, he was very good at getting to the outside, and very good at getting to the 2nd level. (actually, Glenn and Wood are both pretty good at getting to the 2nd level themselves). I could go up to the casino tonight and win enough at craps to pay off my mortgage too, but it isn't all that likely. And if I was behind on my mortgage, I wouldn't tell my bank that was my plan. You can wait if you want, I've seen the play a number of times. We want to see what D Bell can do; We like what we've seen from Kirk Chambers; This Jamon Meredith was a pretty highly regarded prospect before he was cut; That Terrance Pennington sure has some long arms, prototypical for an OT; Boy, that Ed Wang as a cool name. What's not fair is that every time they don't bother to replace someone, the same line gets used. You'd think that when the line was last used, right after the draft, and they just brought in two more people to "compete", that ...people would catch on. Guess not. Anyways. the only one I really have that much hope for is Caldwell, provided he's healthy again and is ready to compete. I actually wanted the Bills to use a late round pick on Legursky and had hopes for him. But it may be the lack of height (a cocern coming out of Marshall), but he hasn't shown to be starting quality, at least not in pass protection. I don't know what would have changed since then. We'll see. But I doubt it. If it was actually true, they wouldn't be brining in guys like Legursky and Caldwell. Spare me the depth argument. They're looking for a starter. And again, I've seen the play before, I don't need to wait. Feel free though, I won't spoil the ending. 1) Jerry Reese doesn't have a single starter who was another teams cast off, much less 3. David Baas wasn't a cast off, he was a bona fide FA. 2) Almost all of his guys are from within..and he's pretty good at getting quality from mid round picks. But that's Jerry Reese. when was the last tiem the Bills got a quality starter from a mid round pick? Or a late round? There was Peters as a UFDA 9 years ago and there there was...um...well, Butler wasn't bad at guard for a year or two. 3) You actually have to pick guys in the mid rounds to be Jerry Reese. This year, after their best Olineman left..there were two pretty good prospects in the 4th. Schwenke from Cal. was the 2nd best center ranked, and could easily go to guard. Barrett Jones won the Outland Trophy and played 3 different positions. In a way, he's a bit of a Levitre clone. Smart, agile enough, very good at using angles, can get to the 2nd level. We took another safety. I'm sorry, I've seen this play before. 4) Jerry Reese isn't afraid to retain talent and pay for it. Well before it became fashionable to say, "you don't pay a guard X millions of $$, he gave Chris Snee a 42 million contract. He's been making between 6.5 and 7 million since 2008. He doesn't buy into that mantra. 5) As David Diehl ages and Kevin Boothe remains lukewarm...he drafted Justin Pugh in the 1st as an eventual replacement. He already has James Brewer being groomed. He's not rummaging through NFL trash bins looking for starters. As far as the Saints go: I'm kind of surprised you brought up NO, but lets go with it. In 2010, they made Jahri Evans the highest paid interior lineman in the NFL. There we go again with that "you don't pay a guard that type of money" stuff. ( I can't believe people still say that nonsense). So they can't afford to have the no. 1 and no. 3 highest paid interior linemen on their team (Mankins passed Evans on the money scale). So they keep Evans, let Nix go and replace him...by paying 6.5 million for Ben Grubbs, a PB quality guard in his own right. Do you see the difference here? Do you see the difference between bringing in a PB quality lineman for over 6 million ...and bringing in someone who's started less than 1/2 of his career...and was just dumped by his former team? Without a doubt. I'd rather mimic the better teams. I'd love to do what the Giants do. I'd love to do what the Saints did. I'd love to do what Ozzie does. Hell, I'd kill to have Ozzie. But we don't. Not where the OL is concerned. I thought we were headed in that direction..but we're back to "we really have high hopes for this 27 year old guy that's never started before". Well, we didn't do anything for 4 years at QB and WR either so....maybe at least that's a step in the right direction.

-Wood and Levitre were drafted in 2009. They've had 4 drafts since then. It took 4 years to replace their LT. Levitre's gone anyways, so I don't know why you're counting him. They dumped three offensive linemen that year anyways. The "investment" in Pears was calling a guy who was sitting on his living room couch, unemployed. I'll say this about him...he's at least smart enough to get in someone's way for a second, sometimes two. He doesn't flat out whiff much, but if you're looking for 3 or more seconds of protection, that's not him. (PS.. PFF had the Bills at around 2.5 seconds in time to throw, around 29th in the league. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/07/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/) The "investment" in Urbik was picking up a guy off of someone's practice squad. Like Pears, that's not exactly betting the house. Urbik, like Pears, can usually get in the way. But here's the rub with Urbik..watch the Bills pass plays for the past 2 years, Wood almost always moves to the right...to help Urbik. He could do that because Levitre was one of the better, if not the best pass protecting guard in the league. (I think PFF had him as the best last year, but I'm not sure). Stating the obvious, it is a lot easier to pass block when you're double teaming someone. Herein lies the rub for this year...Wood might not be able to help Urbik on most plays if he has to help out Legursky (the worst pass protector on the Steelers last year), or Brown (who's started 2 whole games in his career). So when Wood is helping out the left side...how's Urbik going to do by himself? We'll find out I guess. So far, Marrone doesn't sound too happy with Levitre's replacements. Maybe Antoine Caldwell takes over. If it works out, that'd be great..but he's suffered ankle injuries the last 2 years and got benched last year. maybe he can make a comeback. What you could likely see is a domino effect Wood needs to shuffle back and forth, You can only cover so many holes with one guy. And when you start to shuffle them...it usually doesn't work. Take the Ravens last year. McKinnie was lazy and Harbaugh wouldn't play him. So they put Oher at LT and Osemele at RT. Neither did much at their respective positions and overall line play suffered. But when McKinnie finally decided to get back in the game, Oher moved back to RT and Osemele went to guard. They became dominant then. When people start coming through the middle because Wood can't help on both sides...will we start hearing the "well, he's really not that good" statements? Probably. At the least, I don't expect him to be re-signed.."you don't pay a center 6 million a year, or 5 million a year." The line went from 3 high draft choices and 2 cast offs to 2 high draft choices and 3 cast offs. If Wood is gone, it'll be 1 high draft choice and 4 cast offs. But of course, "Buddy is happy with the people on the roster"...you know, the line that was given when they didn't try to replace their best lineman either through FA'cy OR the draft. People actually believed that line. Now, if you want to know what a good GM does, look at Ozzie. A few years ago, he drafts 2 guards, Grubbs in the first, Yanda in the 3rd. Both are PB quality. But he won't, or can't pay both. So he gives Yanda 6.5 million a year, and lets Grubbs go. But....and here's the key. He uses a 2nd on Osemele so the loss of Grubbs doesn't sting too much. That's because Ozzie puts a premium on the Oline. It isn't a once-every-4-to-5 years investment. He regularly uses a pick in rounds 1-3 at least every other year.

And then you said....yeah, they could have used Mario in that game against the Pats. The same Mario who did absolutely nothing in 2 games against the Pats this year. If he helped the Texans as much as he did the Bills...why bother.. mmhm, Yep. Its not that difficult. Judge him by what HE does, or doesn't do. Which would be, getting sacks against inferior competition but little else.

Well, you're consistent, I give ya' that. Can't seem to discuss him without saying "oh yeah, what about the other guy?" Now...why couldn't Mario beat Sebastian Vollmer...or Nate Solder?

Yeah, that's what I expected... How about he actually beat the guy in front of him on occasion? I mean beating a guy that isn't a third rate OT. He did a nice disappearing act against Sebastian Vollmer in 2 games. When that didn't work, they moved him to the right side to go against Nate Solder occasionally..with similar results. Dude was brought in to get after a guy like Tom Brady. But when he can't beat the guy in front of him...

Hey, that was pretty good. You went from "he would have helped" to "Oh yeah, what about everyone else?" in a millisecond. People have made excuses for the guy his entire career. I can only hope that this will be the first time in his career that he actually makes a defense better. God knows the Bills could use the help.

Shane Nelson as most underrated, at least from the Talkin' Proud era.

Yeah well, it would have been nice if Mario showed up for either of the Bills' games against the Pats. They could have used him.

They finished 6th in scoring in 2008. Tra Thomas was the LT, a very good LT in his own right, but coming down towards the end of his career. he spent 1 season with 2 different teams before retiring. They replaced one very good LT with another.

yep, def. not a difference maker. Pro Bowl last 3 years. Rated no. 1 LT by Pro Football Focus in 2011, by a wide margin. More importantly, the Eagles finished 8th, 5th and 3rd in scoring his 3 years there. He misses one year, and an offense that was averaging over 400 points per season for the last 3 drops to 280 and 29th in the league. But he doesn't catch the ball or run it, so he added nothing to their offense. But then, many just have the Russ Brandon approach. "he's 6'5" and over 300 lbs," all we need is another 6'5" 300 lb. guy to step in. It doesn't work that way, but it won't stop people from believing it.

I fully agree with that statement. In terms of this thread each of the greats mentioned have different attributes that made them great. Butkus played at 245-250, which was nearly as big as most offensive linemen at the time. That's like a LB playing at around 290-300 today. And yet, he could play sideline to sideline. He was a little before my time, but I knew the other great LB's mentioned played alongside some great players. As far as I know, he didn't have a Steel Curtain in front of him, or a Manimal/Dent/McMichael, or a Harry Carson/Carl Banks alongside him. I can give names of more than one of the defenses of that time, whether it be Green Bay, the Chiefs, or Dallas. But I can't think of another Bears defender. Maybe I'm wrong, though. Lambert was a part of a system, but he was an indispensible cog in that great, great machine they had. The toothless grin, the finger waving at QB's was nice for show, but those weren't his best attributes. He had range, he could cover in pass pro, and was extremely smart (per Jack Ham). It was because of him, Russell and Ham that the Cover 2 was created. His D's finished in the top 5 5 of his 1st 6 years. His play outdistanced his persona, and he had a pretty good persona to begin with. LT changed the way the game was played on defense, he changed the way the game was played on offense. For the next 15 years, everyone in the draft was looking for the "next LT". None quite measured up to him, those some were damn good. On the all underrated list: Jack Ham- possibly the most complete LB ever. With the way teams loved to run sweeps in the 70's (everyone had a good pulling guard or two), you'd think they could exploit a somewhat undersized LB. Not when they ran at him. He was probably the league's best open field tackler at the time, and the best in pass coverage. Randy Gradishar- a guy that never gets much mention, but he was asked to take on centers and guards on nearly every play, AND make the tackle from sideline to sideline. His defenses with Denver were top 10 or top 5 during most of his career. Cool thread..I like the topic.

The Ravens are a good example. First you need both, you need a QB AND an Oline. But Flacco wasn't exactly playing lights out earlier in the year, and even towards the end of the year. McKinnie was on the bench because he wasn't giving the effort, and Oher is a lot better of a RT than he is a LT. When McKinnie asked Harbaugh why he wasn't playing more, Harbaugh said "practice better". And he did. And then moved to the starting line up in Mid December. Oher moved back to the right, they moved their rookie Osemele from RT to LG..and their offense took off in the playoffs. One big fattie, when he decided to play, made a huge difference in the protection they gave Flacco, and in their offense as a whole.

No, I agree, it isn't going to happen. I doubt they take a guard before the 4th round, frankly. Especially after hearing him talking about the guards on the roster. How much he has a say in how the line is built, outside of the draft, is up to debate. When I heard him talk about the guards on the roster, it sounded suspiciously like 2009, when Brandon dumped both OT's and then the coaches talked about how happy they were with D. Bell and Kirk Chambers. I don't expect Wood to be here after next year. We'll basically be left with Cordy Glenn.

You can also cite Seattle, with 2 firsts, a 2nd and a 3rd on their line. Or NE, with 2 1sts and a 2nd. Big fatties aren't out of fashion for good offenses. Had I not thought they painted themselves into a corner and have no forced themselves into taking a QB, I'd have no problem with Warmack.

In a way, that's what Kyle Williams said last year after the first NE game. But he was talking about guys not being where they were supposed to be and not doing what they were supposed to. Kelsay further chimed in, calling out the effort of some of them. Talley and Bruce later publicly called out the effort of some of the players, without mentioning names. That is pretty inexcusable, considering the simplicity of the defense. And I think you are right in saying that it comes down to beating the man in front of you, at least for Wanny's defense. He said that plenty in the past...if one guy is being doubled, and the other man has a single blocker, you expect that guy to beat his man. If he doesn't, it won't work. Problem is...it didn't work. Guys weren't beating the guy in front of them. They brought in a $15 million a year "physical freak" who's made a career out of preying on lesser talent. He'll get his sacks against an Arizona...but disappears against a NE. Even when they moved him around to try and exploit a position, it didn't work. I think you are right in that when you look at many of the big plays against the defense last year, most of them had someone missing an assignment or just making a bonehead play. It isn't so much a lack of physical talent, especially with the front 4, as it is effort and discipline. If Petitine can get these guys to do their jobs. When you watch Alabama play (probably the best defense at any level in the last half decade), it isn't just that they "scheme". They do. They blitz, they disguise blitzes, but......they play with discipline. Guys aren't out of position. They don't get burned by misdirection. To me, THAT'S one of the biggest things this defense missed and that's what Kyle Williams was getting at. Guys weren't where they were supposed to be and doing what they were supposed to. If Petitine can get them to do that, it'll mean a hell of a lot more than "scheme".

Nah, it really isn't misleading. Its just that the Bills have had this DB fetish going on for so long now, that people consider it normal and healthy behavior. Guys like Ozzie and Colbert understand something that many don't...that a Reed, a Polamalu or a Revis don't come around every year. And fast guys who can't catch are pretty common. They'd just as soon use their first round picks on guys who can beat people up. Its just a difference in attitude between them and us.

Good defenses rarely draft DB's high (note, I did not say never...and I used a double negative). They get them in rounds 3-7 or off the UFDA list. Ozzie has used a 1st or 2nd on a DB exactly twice in 10 years. He got a HOF'er in one..and was absolutely desperate when he took the other; The Steelers have done it 3 times in 12 years, none in the past 7 or 8 years; More recently... The Niners once in the last 7 years or so; Seattle once since 2007. It is pretty clear how they pick...an occasional WR when warranted, a RB when needed once in a while...a QB if the guy is good... But on all of those teams..by far the biggest emphasis has been the trenches...D7 and OL. This is the way Ozzie and the Steelers always drafted, and what Seattle and San Fran have recently caught onto. On the other hand..the chronically bad defenses... Buffalo...5 in the past 7 years. Oakland 7 since 2001... NO 5 in the past 8 years New England 6 since 2007....and their defense has pretty much sucked recently. Probably why they broke with recent tradition and drafted Jones and Hightower in the 1st last year. That helped a little. It isn't a coincidence. The good defenses have different priorities.

No, he isn't. But it is easy to create a highlight tape of him. He's going to get his tackles per game, but he's going to miss on a lot of others. Overly aggressive, bad angles a great deal of the time, slow to read misdirection, surprisingly taken out easy by a blocking WR. Living in the midwest, got to watch a lot of Big 12 football. Watch the Oklahoma st. game and watch him lose his jock on their TD run. Watch the Oklahoma game and watch them roll over Texas. Ask yourself..."where is Kenny Vaccarro?" In particular, watch the 95 yard TD run. He was in perfect position ot make a tackle, failed to diagnose a draw, shot the wrong gap and the RB was off to the races. Watch the 2nd half of the Kansas St. game, when they rolled up 35 points in the 2nd half. He couldn't seem to get a grasp of Collin Klein's head fakes. Or the West Virginia game, where they ran for nearly 200 yards. There was a reason that Texas didn't finish in the top 100 in rush defense (quite an achievement in the pass happy Big 12), and he was a part of it. They gave up nearly 200 yards a game rushing. He's actually a lot like Donte Whitner..he'll get his hits at the line and he'll run people down at times, but he's going to miss on a hell of a lot of others. Bad, bad idea, especially at 8.

Maybe because Narwocki is making things up. He's certainly never talked to Smith's coaches... Whatever the motivation, Smith's ability to stiff-arm the accolades and maintain his focus is as rare as it is powerful. "There are a lot of guys," Holgorsen said, "who will sit and get on the Internet and read article after article about themselves, or turn on the TV and record their interviews. He's a guy that just doesn't do that. He would rather read a book or put a on his iPad and go home and study. ... He'd rather do that than go check out what the club's like tonight or what these specific girls are doing in the library." There's a reason for that, the head coach said about his quarterback. "He's the most competitive guy I've been around," Holgorsen said. http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/page/football-121003Maisel/west-virginia-mountaineers-quarterback-geno-smith-focus-solely-football Given his position as points leader in the video-game era of college football offense, it's no surprise West Virginia quarterback Geno Smith would rather break down film than relive past glories, even when the visitor in question is his mother and the time at hand is the aftermath of the Mountaineers' 70-63 victory over Baylor. "I'm sure he had three Texas games on his iPad," said West Virginia coach Dana Holgorsen, whose eighth-ranked Mountaineers play No. 11 Texas at 6 p.m. Saturday in Austin. "He's a student of the game." http://www.chron.com/sports/college-football/article/West-Virginia-QB-Smith-does-his-homework-3924068.php Spavital said the thing sets Smith apart is obsessive film study and relentless work ethic. He said Weeden also has good work habits, but that Smith was over the top. "Brandon studied a lot, but he did things on his own," said Spavital. "He was married and he went home to his wife. Geno, football is all he cared about. He'd take the O-line out to eat and then come back to the office and we'd watch stuff on the iPad. He was always trying to improve. I've never seen anybody study harder with the tape than he does." Spavital said Smith, who studied NFL QBs such as Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees, can do it all. "He's more of an under-center, pro-style play-action, quarterback, but he can throw out of the shotgun, play in the spread, run a zone-read," he said. "He's such a student of the game, there were times we let him check 80 percent of the game. He knows how to manage a game and he knows what everyone is supposed to be doing." ~Jake Spavital, former West Virginia QB coach http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/02/geno_smith_is_a_top-5_player_i.html Too many personal film sessions ran long. When Jake Spavital returned to his office at West Virginia, quarterback Geno Smith was usually camped out watching tape. The quarterbacks coach had no choice but to shag Smith away. The quarterback had class. So then, Spavital had a solution. “I got him an iPad so he’d go to class,” said Spavital, who is now at Texas A&M. “And then he’d start watching the iPad tape in class, which causes more distractions.” http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/190936841.html I remember reading the ESPN article last fall, along with another that was far more detailed regarding his game preparation. They were written around the time of the Texas game last year, well before the draft came. They were emphasizing not why he should be drafted, but why he was playing so well. Finding that article proved impossible. Finding these were hard enough. That's because when you now google +Geno Smith work ethic, 14 of 15 articles are something along the lines of "Pro Football Weekly Scout blast's Geno Smith's work ethic". Another Nolan Narwocki hack job. At best, he wrote some really stupid things, as filler for the analysis he failed to investigate. (or at least back up with examples of evidence). At worst, he saw how much attention his Cam Newton evaluation received, and chose a repeat performance. I'll take Nolan Narwocki with a grain of salt.

In terms of a mid to late round pick, I think I agree. He's only been playing the position for 2 years. Already a pretty good route runner with good hands, I think he'll learn how to use his 228 lb. body better in the future. I'm pretty sure he's faster than the 4.58 estimate the original link provides, but we'll see that at the combine. I've seen estimates of Stedman Bailey going mid rounds, I'd strongly consider him. He played half the season on a bad ankle and still put up 25 TDs. Austin got the ink, but in many games, Bailey was the go to guy. If there's one that reminds me of SJ, its Quinton Patton. He just looks like he has that same ability to confuse the CB at the line, keeps them guessing as to whether he's going inside or outside. Seems to have the same attitude of not being intimidated by the bigger teams either. His best games seem to be against the bigger teams, including that incredible performance against A & M.

Yeah, I saw that article the other night. He might not have been using an E-cigarette though. http://news.yahoo.com/device-exploded-man-mouth-not-electronic-cigarette-203227292.html Apparently, some people like to try and modify theirs, or "stack" batteries, for some reason or another. Kinda like a Tim Allen/Red Green e-cigarette.

I tried my first electronic cigarette on Sat. and have been using it since then. I wouldn't call it necessarily a completely safe alternative. But it probably is safer than smoking. I tried this one on a recommendation...Foos1.com With it, I'm averaging about 2 or 3 tobacco cigarettes a day, as opposed to a pack. To get myself down to 2 or 3 cigarettes a day, I usually have to be pretty sick. Though it isn't called a nicotine delivery system...it really is, At least as much as the gum or the patch. Its probably as close as you can get to smoking without really smoking. It really isn't like smoking air, as some believe. It takes a little to get used to, the first drag I took, I hacked like someone smoking their first cigarette. (My wife laughed). I treat it a little more like a cigar now, not fully inhaling it. You can at least "smoke" in the house, since there really isn't any smoke. Cost wise, the starter kit was $10.00, came with one cartridge and a rechargeable battery. Battery has a lifetime warranty. The cartridges are about the equivalent of a pack of tobacco cigarettes. If nothing else, it might get me off tobacco. We'll see.