CookieG

Yeah, well, I'm not really sure where people get this, "we've never rebuilt before". TD/GW took over in 2001. After 2002, there were about 3 starters on each side of the ball left. Offense Moulds Price Brown Defense Pat Williams Winfield maybe someone else Jauron took over in 2006, by 2007 you again had about 3 players from each side of the ball left. Offense Evans Josh Reed Peters (I suppose you can count Losman) Defense Schobel Kelsay McGee maybe you can count Crowell and Greer, but they weren't starters in 2005. I won't go into Buddy's regime..but it was clear that he was trying to rebuild the D, hoping it was going to be another Chargers D of the mid 2000's. And of course, he provided like 1 player to the O (Spiller). In each case, a new coach, new GM new defensive scheme and of course, a new RB. In each case, the leaders of the old regime were gone. In each case, the cap was used as the excuse, "cap hell" was the catch phrase for the TD regime, "cash to cap" was the Levy/Jauron buzzword. The only thing that stopped Rex from completely tearing down the 4th ranked defense he inherited was his firing. He was only able to get away with a partial tear down. I'm not sure how those don't classify as a rebuild, at least the TD and Jauron regimes. Unless, you're talking about tanking...which is just, so Cleveland. In none of those cases did you have an offense that finished the prior season 10th in the NFL in scoring.

Well, that's not what Reid said, or Dorsey. They were unanimous on him. Both emphasized it. https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article147392189.html https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article147284164.html Brett Veatch, current GM and maybe the guy most responsible for getting him to KC, explains it this way: https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/08/23/patrick-mahomes-kansas-city-chiefs-andy-reid Back before the 2017 draft, Brett Veach—then the co-director of player personnel, now the Chiefs general manager—would see when the head coach would break for lunch. At that point in the day, Reid would have a pretty good read on the quarterback, and as he walked past the windows of Veach’s office, he would look down and swipe his hand from left to right as if to say “no way.” The kid couldn’t be their guy of the future. Then Patrick Mahomes visited to the team facilities. Veach saw Reid on his way to lunch and looked for a hand signal. He got eye contact and a thumbs-up—full approval from one of the best offensive minds in today’s NFL. “It wasn’t just a nod or a smile, it was a thumbs up with a smile,” Veach says. “Turning that hall I remember coach looking at me like, ‘Yeah, this is the dude.’

Actually, I thought it was a simple question.

The one play...where they switched around blocking and the guard didn't get out quick enough. Of course, there are many, many more plays in that game.... Point out what else he did in that game, especially the 2nd half when Mayfield was shredding them.

And when he went against Bosa, he pretty much won nearly all battles against him. Its a reason I'm not sold on Bosa.

idk...Im sure McVay and Wade talk continuously. And I'm sure that Wade knows he's a DC and not an HC. And I'm sure McVay might give him ideas at times. But for the most part, that's Wade's D. And it should be. There's little McVay could teach Wade about running a D and I'm sure he knows that. One of the best things you can do is hire first class talent and then stay out of his way, especially when its out of your area of expertise. McVay was extremely smart in hiring Wade, as was Pederson in hiring Schwartz. And Im sure both of those DC's had an ear with their GM's in giving suggestions on who they need in terms of personnel. When Jauron was here, I didn't realize how much of a hand he had in the offense until he fired Schonert. It wasn't that Schonert was fired, it was his statements when he left, particularly about how Jauron was on his back all the time about this and that...especially about simplifying the offense. If there was a coach who needed to desperately stay away from an offense, it was Jauron. But he didn't and it showed. He'd go through an OC every 2 years, but never realized the problem was him. And his offenses were always at the bottom of the league. It applies to the GM level as well. The best thing the McBeane tandem can do in the offseason is bring in the best player personnel man they can find and let him run this ill-advised rebuild. If a new OC is warranted, let him find the new guy. After 2 years, the rookie GM and the rookie HC have shown nothing in terms of building or running an offense. The sooner they realize this and bring in competent help, the better off they'll be.

A better comparison for him would be Brandin Cooks or Desean Jackson on the good side, Tavon Austin on the bad.

Which part? You know, before they got here, in 2016, the Bills O actually scored more than the Chiefs. And in TD's the Bills 2016 offense scored more TD's than KC by a dozen. (46-34). They had similar cap situations. For the most part, the dismantling of the Bills' O was due to not being "their" guys. The problem is, after 2 years, they've shown no ability to put it back together. Im not one to say "fire Beane". But I am saying that he, or McD or both better bring in someone to build the offense for them. They're about as far off in this area as a tandem can be. At the very least, after 2 years, they should have had the offense stacked with young prospects.

I've said this before when this comes up...but how many of those would survive the McBeane purge if they were running KC? Watkins certainly wouldn't be there. Kelce is making $10 million a year, I could see him being traded. Hunt really isn't better than Shady. Different type of runner, but he's really not as good. And I like Hunt. HIll wouldn't have prospered under them. He was a day three pick with lots of speed but little else. He became a WR under Reid. The stellar Oline, it wouldn't be close. Fisher and his $13 million a year salary would be traded. I'm not sure Schwartz, at $6 or 7 million a year would still be there. Hell, Beane didn't want to pay Ritchie $5 million for a single year, and he just came off a Pro Bowl year. Tardif would never have gotten $8 million a year. More likely than not, the KC offense would have been gutted like the Bills' O was, if Beane was running that team.

Well, there's a few things here. 1. What is the 4th or 5th round pick going to bring? -Ashton Youboty? CJ Ah You? Duke Williams? This is what draft picks for Lynch ,McGahee and Henry brought. Some 3rds, a 4th or 2 that did nothing to improve the team in the short run or the long run. 2..and this, to me, is more important. If I'm overseeing McBeane, I'm looking at putting the brakes on dumping offensive talent. I know what left since they got here, I know what they are doing on other teams and I know what they've brought in. And I know its been 2 years. And I know what the offense looks like. Frankly, I take the attitude of "before you dump more talent, its really time for you two start concentrating on bringing it in. Before they keep ripping apart, its time for them to demonstrate an ability to acquire talent for the offense.

Well THERE'S something that's never been done in Buffalo. Trade your RB and waste a 1st round pick on his replacement.

And even if those guys were here, they wouldn't be. Eric Fisher and his contract wouldn't survive Beane..he would have been traded..probably to Cincy. Kelce's contract doesn't make it either, he's pawned off for a 2nd or a 3rd. Under Dennison, Hill never develops as a receiver (something he's not given nearly enough credit for), he remains the same raw, one trick pony he was coming out of college. They'd still trade for the big slow target that is KB; Hunt ends up looking like crap under the new regime, people would be talking about dumping him for a mid round pick by now.

Trade him for a 3rd or 4th, use next year's no. 1 for a RB. Its the Buffalo way.

I just hope this isn't my generational Lamonica moment. As far as people talking about hindsight, meh. I just know that after the 1st round was over, when my son called to pick him up all he said was "so how pissed off are you"? IT was the LSU bowl game in his soph. year that sold me. More importantly, the teams that wanted him aren't seeing it as hindsight. I didn't realize Arians wanted him. But NO wanted him as successor to Brees. That's why the Chiefs traded up for him. Teams that knew QBs wanted him. I live in Chiefs country (which is brutal right now), and watching the post draft PC's, I became certain that we made a bad decision. The Chiefs weren't even looking for a QB when their draft process began. It started with a regional scout, who kept bugging higher ups to watch tape of him. it kept moving up to eventually Dorsey and Reid. By the end of the evals, they were sold on him, to a man. The common buzz word with him was "special". They weren't going to draft another QB that year, much less trade up for one. Watching those, I was convinced, thinking "what did we just do here?" Chiefs country is brutal right now. Its not fun to hear people say, "hey! Thanks for Mahomes!" Damn, our mailman was chiding me last Sat. And its why I'm pulling for Allen now more than ever. If it ends up being a situation where they got Marino and we got Kelly, I won't complain. But if they got Marino and we got Todd Blackledge, its not going to be easy. I don't want it to be my Lamonica moment.

lol...welp...when I was growing up, it was during the Lamonica era in Oakland. In those days, the Raiders were really the Raiders, the badasses of the AFl/AFC. Not only was it pre-Interwebia, but it was pre-cable. The Raiders were on TV a lot. and from my childhood memories, whenever they were on, my father, an uncle, a neighbor or whatever grown ups were in the room, someone would remark, "Why'd we ever trade that guy?" Then the discussion would begin. And that was years after he was traded, and pretty much went on as long as he was their QB. I don't suspect it was different from other Buffalo area households. Unless Allen becomes the stud he's supposed to be, or until Mahomes does an RGIII, expect it to continue. Watching a guy you passed on become Kurt Warner before your eyes isn't easy to watch...especially when the consensus was that an upgrade from Tyrod was priority one. I mean, damn...a few weeks ago, someone started the discussion about who was really responsible for drafting EJ Manuel, Buddy or Whaley? That was 5 years ago, when the alternative was...um.? This has been 7 games..I don't know why anyone would think people would remain silent.

I think we're at the "agree to disagree" stage, but I'd like to bring up that the Bills actually HAVE taken talent over need in the past, on several occasions. Some of the "too good to pass up" players taken in the 1st include: -Macgahee -McLovin (the uber talented shut down corner who was too good to pass on) -Maybin (at least in Dick Jauron's mind) -Spiller -Watkins There are mixed results in that group. I don't disagree with the theory, I mean damn, in 2017 they passed on talent AND need for a cornerback. (Sorry, my Lamonica moment). And in our examples, I kinda knew we were referring to the same people. (Bosa and Williams.) Here's where I stand with Bosa and why I'm not as big on the "talent over need" thingy. I realize he's the consensus DE, the talent is there and he has the pedigree. I don't see the production that others do though. Example... I saw a sack near the endzone, which could have been on a missed blocking assignment, and once where he got in the backfield, but missed a tackle. But for most of that game, he was invisible. A slow Orlando Brown kept him in check and frankly, Bobby Evans kicked his ass. Now Evans should probably be a guy to consider if he comes out. I've seen a few other games where he had a little more success, but I'm not seeing a guy who's beating OT's most of the time. I mean, you're talking about less than 2 tackles a game and less than a sack per game. idk...I don't see him as "can't miss" or a generational talent. IMO Myles Garrett fit that bill more than Bosa.

There are enough maxims being thrown around, and they are good ones..and they both boil down to "talent trumps need". I just don't know if you can apply them as rigid in all situations,. especially in the current situation. And a little further, prospect A over prospect B is not an all or nothing proposition. Example...prospect A is a DE with a grade of 8.5, prospect B is an OT with a grade of 7.5. And for the purposes of the ratings...let's say 8.5 is considered an all pro player and 7.5 is considered a fringe Pro Bowl player. But...your team is already near the top in sacks but is at the very bottom of the league in pass protection, leading the league in sacks per attempt and has a pathetic run game. This is where I think you get into a Bill Walsh maxim. According to legend, when a scout would say something like, "a good prospect, but our draft position is too high for him." Walsh would dismiss the rating and say, "how would he help our team"? (then he'd probably trade down). In this case, who helps the team more? The higher rated DE help the team more than the lower rated, but still highly rated OT? I'd argue the latter. Another example, let's say you consider this a weak WR class, with only 2 WR's you'd consider drafting in round 1 or 2. Its also a deep DL class with about a dozen draft worthy DL in the same rounds. Considering that everyone else in the NFL probably knows about the WR class...do you consider a WR, knowing that if you wait, all prospects will be gone by the next round? One last maxim is an offshoot of Belichick's catch phrase "situational awareness"...the one he preaches on a tactical level to his players all the time. But it can also be applied to the team building level. And the situation is this...this is a historically bad offense that has been stripped with most of its talent. It needs to be made a priority. Just because you're drafting at a need position means the player selected will be a bust.

for wearing a red scarf around his neck, if nothing else.

Ego.

What do you think another team will give us for Beane?

Nah, there are far bigger reasons the franchise was held back for decades. -the new regime comes in and feels the need to "clean house", and spending years rebuilding with "their" players; -failing to build an offense at a pace even close to building a defense; -failing to find a franchise QB and in most cases, not trying; -showing a lack of respect for the OL, and not realizing what it takes to make a good OL. The team's had some dominant defenses in these lean years, (2003-04, 2013-14, 2018) but has rarely had the offense to keep pace. The offense was finally getting closer in 2016, but they felt it was better to replace it with the NFL's least talented offense. And now people want another DE.

It worked for Pederson. And its working for McVay.

And yet, here we are paying KB 8.6 million. Not to mention the 3.2 million cap hit for Coleman. And yet...there he was, waiting for us at 10. Pat Mah... eh...never mind.

Antoinette's on Transit Rd. in Depew. Growing up, it had been rated one of the top 10 Ice Cream Parlors in the country by a trade journal. They used to keep a copy of the rating on the wall. Ice cream and whipped cream are all homemade. On the candy side, basically anything edible, they dip in chocolate. Its a bit disgusting. But probably the best sponge candy in WNY.

McDermott hired Beane, not the other way around. That's how the power structure is with these two. But to take your thought a little further and reversing it, good luck finding a quality, offense minded head coach to work for Beane. Not with the collection of talent he's acquired on offense in the past 2 years.