Kelly to Allen

Larry Bird was not the greatest athlete... His instincts were profound. He was the Bobby Fisher of basketball and could see things others didn't see. That's how I see mahomes imo. His instincts are transcendent

Mahomes earlier in his career was more consistent and could play on the edge of chaos a little bit more consistently than Allen Allen didn't catch up to mahomes from an eye test standpoint until the 2021 year. Allen's playoff game vs the Patriots was so profound imo that it made me think differently and that the eye test was extremely close. Obviously everyone knows that Allen was way more raw coming into the NFL. And it was in year 3 and more so year 4 that he truly started to blossom as a qb

This is true. They almost put polian through a struggle session over it honestly. It was pretty ridiculous. Especially considering Kelly was asked to switch positions, Tebow was asked to switch positions, Steve Young, Julian Edelman, Matt Jones etc etc ... They were all asked to switch positions at various points and times over the decades in all kinds of varying points of context. The media then pretended kordell Stewart never existed and basically made up a narrative to pretend polian was twirling his mustache. They painted polian like he was some Archie Bunker figure who was " unenlightened" It was pretty disgraceful and hilarious at the same time. All that being said Lamar was doubted for some fair reasons and he has answered in a big way, especially the past two years imo. His only box left to check is the playoffs and in the playoffs with his arm in a big way. For me that's my only question left

That's because Allen is a legitimate threat to mahomes. Even honest KC fans will tell you this. But until Allen takes over mahomes mountain and names it Allens Alps, it will continue to be mahomes mountain 😂

The goal posts move in life or sports because of corruption or something needs to be proven to create a new foundation or paradigm. Allen ( proving he's better than mahomes) still needs to happen Ppl in media, fans, big corporations that create commercials etc aren't convinced yet but that door is creeping open

And that's not going to cut it in the playoffs.

Mahomes from the eye test is the greatest QB that's ever lived imo Mahomes is more talented than Brady Mahomes from an accolades/ rings/ all pros etc is off to the Greatest start maybe in sports history. Larry Bird is probably the other athlete that had such a fast start You can argue with the team success or just remove the team success. Either way he's viewed by many as the greatest ever. *** Josh Allen has very similar numbers lately, and is in many respects a doppelganger to mahomes. But Allen in his 2nd year was still developing. Mahomes in his second year won MVP. Since 2020 when Allen got out of his development stage and he got real wrs in diggs and Gabe the numbers have been very close but with a very slight edge to mahomes. 2020 is when the surrounding infrastructure around Allen was at least close to KC. In order for Allen to authentically take the top spot and seriously shift the sports consciousness. To make it the Allen paradigm, He wins MVP, he beats mahomes in the playoffs, he wins the SB and SB MVP , and then next year he's in the MVP conversation again or he beats mahomes again. He would then be 6-2 vs mahomes since 21 and this will begin to open up the door where ppl in high up sports discussions are going to say wait... Allen really is better etc But he has to do it. Here's what I will say to support your argument. The reason some KC fans like Matt verderame for sports illustrated or others in the media are making very disrespectful comments about Allen is because that door is barely creeping open. In the 13 seconds game it started to open and he was a real threat to take over the league That moment has occurred again potentially here starting in the playoffs And because sports resembles life, just like with a regime in power, if their legitimacy is starting to be held in question, that regime will lash out. Or when orthodoxy is questioned if a new ideology emerges , the old guard will begin to lash out and try to denigrate the new paradigm. If Allen wins the Superbowl, it's going to open up the door even more. But he actually has to storm the castle and take power metaphorically speaking

The powers that be are going to make it a co - MVP situation imo. To help chill out the toxic narratives and incendiary rhetoric

This is absurd. But everyone has their own opinion Mahomes is borderline the babe Ruth of the modern era. I don't understand why we can't just be honest. Yes Allen has a chance to take the lead possibly. But he has to actually do it. And that's just the beginning honestly. Allen to overtake mahomes would need to win MVP, beat mahomes in the playoffs, win the super bowl and super bowl MVP. Then next year he would need to once again be in the MVP conversation or beat mahomes again in the regular season. That in my mind would begin to change the consciousness on who's better and open up the window for that conversation. We can't just pretend that mahomes isn't in the AFC championship every single frickin year. We can't just pretend that he's not going for a 3 peat and 4th world championship There is incredible historical equity there that needs not just respect but reverence. Come on dude

Oh I know. I'm Saying going in specifically as a gm

Would rather just let Solomon get more pass rushing reps. But I'd be willing to give him a workout. You can never have enough pass rushers

That's not what I'm talking about

Truth will reveal itself in the playoffs.

I can't say he's the best until he beats mahomes in the playoffs and wins the Superbowl. That's how it's always been

Yes. There is a demarcation between the two but both are gold jacket QBs. Ozzie is going to get in the Hof as a GM imo

They're both gold jacket Legends

What will elevate Josh this year is if he wins MVP, wins the Superbowl and super bowl MVP, and beat burrow, Lamar, mahomes twice and Goff twice. That would be truly incredible

I rank him as probably the greatest QB that's ever lived. Older ppl say Montana, even older say Untias or Sammy Baugh. The 3 QBs that looked the most aesthetic imo are Marino, Moon and Rodgers.

It's on the table that Peyton Manning is the greatest QB that's ever lived. Nobody would think you're weird for saying that. Putting Lamar in that conversation is just not based in reality. I wouldn't even put Allen in that conversation. Josh Allen could win MVP, win the super bowl, win super bowl MVP and I still wouldn't put him in the conversation with Peyton Manning.

I'm not sold the ravens have a better roster. That argument is kinda ridiculous. @C.Biscuit97 is correct that a lot of the bills roster is extremely underrated.

Peyton Manning in his 4th and 5th playoff game had insane all time numbers passing. I can't take this conversation seriously because it's incredibly disrespectful to a QB like Peyton Manning. It's ridiculous There was no question about Peyton Manning as a passer by year 2. There are still serious philosophical questions about a RPO dependent QB. There's questions about sustainability because obviously the athletic ability falls off quickly in your late 20s and there are also serious questions about the effectiveness of an offense that is either out of structure too much, or not foundational to a QB running and putting the defense in conflict. There's also questions about durability although I think that's the most overblown concern. Most QBs get hurt getting hit awkwardly in the pocket In the afc championship vs KC and vs buffalo both defenses sold out vs the run and Lamar couldn't function in layman's terms. The narrative last year in year 6 was why didn't Lamar just run more? If the narrative is your QB needs to pass less in the biggest moments, I think that's a problem and raises questions. It's not hating, nobody is saying he's not really good especially being a dual threat qb. If you're asking me do I trust 5 other qbs more than Lamar in the playoffs? Yes I do Again, the truth will reveal itself in the playoffs I apologize if I came across as too confrontational The question is can you be trusted as a high volume passer in the playoffs when teams know you must pass. Within structure.... Not reductively that because a random qb throws for 4000 yds, therefore he's good lol. Derek Carr has passed for 4000 yds, heck Winston threw for 5000....nobody thinks they're anything close to Stafford. You're being pedantic

If Lamar is what you think it will manifest in the playoffs. Saying if he wins the Superbowl is the same thing we heard with another rpo dependent QB in Cam Newton. Calling a QB top 5 who has been terrible in the playoffs is silly. Jim Kelly in his second and third playoff was an all time great. His 1990 playoff is incredible...We need to live in reality

Peyton Manning was almost perfect and had two all time playoff performances as a passer in 2003. Peyton Manning had nothing to prove as a passer within a traditional offense by year 2. Lamar is still answering these questions. It's also completely ridiculous to bring up Peyton Manning because Manning is probably the greatest passing QB of all time in the regular season. I don't even put Allen in his tier yet. Allen may never get there...One could argue Peyton Manning might be the greatest ever. Stop the silliness Lamar is in year 7 and has been terrible in the playoffs, especially as a passer and is still looking for his first 4000 yd passing season. He's still RPO dependent. The best you can say about Lamar is he has been a really good dual threat QB in a RPO/ zone read foundation that has stalled out in the playoffs. He has improved enough as a passer playing within structure that he could break through. That's what he is right now

Dorian Williams is for the run defense against the ravens. Bernard/ Milano for Kelce in the playoffs. Bernard was absolutely sensational vs Kelce in the regular season

Let's go 🔥