RJ (not THAT RJ)

The entire Bills team is attacked by flesh-eating bacteria during the season opener? Do you think that should cost Jauron his job? Will it encourage the Bills to draft Tim Tebow? Or will Tim Tebow demand the Bills move to Toronto?

Golly Bandit, you are a good one for misconstruing the points people make, aren't you? There are limited paths to success in the NFL, based on what we have seen that has succeeded thus far. The future may be different, of course. It has a way of doing that. But in the end, there are basic elements of the game that have had significant continuity despite changes in the surface. You want to believe that Tim Tebow will force some NFL team to transform itself, go right ahead. I would say that the stories of Urban Meyer considering modifying the FL offense to help Tebow prepare for the pros would suggest that he agrees with me much more than you. It is a free country, of course, so go ahead and think what you like.

Nicely put. That spread offense of NE did not rely on Brady to run. It relied on him being able (say it with me, friends!) to stand in the pocket, survey the field, and find the open man....

My point is neither. My point was that in the past 20 years, none of the Florida QBs has done well in the NFL, and I do think that the spread offenses common down there, which have led to inflated QB stats and lots of hype, have something to do with that. Ben played in the spread, yes, but he has also learned to stand in the pocket and deliver the ball, which is what it takes to be a successful NFL QB. My point all along has been that any college QB who wants to succeed has to learn how to do that.

Bandit, any theoretical discussion is open to many possibilities, and we may be talking past each other here. I will say this: Few if any pro teams ever spend a high first round pick on a situational player who will force the team to adapt to him. Most players, indeed, are asked to modify their game in significant ways to match the realities of the NFL. If Tebow were to expect the NFL to change for him rather than vice versa (and to be clear, he has said no such thing, though his fans seem to love to say that on his behalf in a misguided effort to support him), then his appeal to any NFL team will be very limited. He could still be drafted, and still be a success, but I will say that he is unlikely to be successful as an every down QB if he wants to play the same way he has played at FL. I also have a hard time imagining any NFL team being willing to develop a system where they rotate QBs, Pittsburgh in the late 1990s being the exception that proves the rule. If an NFL team spends real money on Tebow as QB, they will expect him to be able to play every down. Otherwise he is just a novelty act, and I cannot believe that either Tim Tebow himself or any NFL GM wants that. Thus, my original point returns, Tebow will have to develop the skills of a pocket passer to complement his other existing skills. (Note I am not saying he has to stop forever being what he has been up to now, lest we get lost in another forest of missed points...) If he can do that, great. If he does not, he is more likely to be Akili Smith than Peyton Manning. You keep talking about "the right role in the right system," and my point has been that there are some systems and roles that have been more successful at the college level than they have ever been in the NFL. Tebow sounds like a great kid, and I understand the affection that Floridians have for him. If he is as smart as people say, then he probably knows this already; I am not sure that many of his acolytes do.

I won't argue with those comments, '81. Tebow has a lot of skills, but the necessary adjustment to a more stable pro set and the talent level of the NFL will be challenges for him. We will see how well he adjusts. My general point, however, stands, that QBs who come into the NFL whose only experience is in gimmicky spreads have had a very hard time adjusting to the pro game. As long as Tebow is aware of that, he has a year to get ready... I think fans who believe he will simply continue as he has are missing that point.

All the time. Though he also decided early on that it was fun to crack jokes about what an awful place Buffalo was. It was hard to tell whether he meant it or whether he was just doing it as a kind of joke. Either way, he sounded like a lishping douchenozzle. And I mean that in the nicest way....

No one has, and I think that no one will. I would even go further, and ask for the fun of it if any QB from a college program that ran some kind of pass-wacky spread (Houston, Texas Tech, Hawaii) has succeeded in the NFL.... Of course QBs should have some mobility, but it is interesting to note that in the long run even the most mobile QBs in the NFL have had to be able to stand in the pocket and make the hard throws if they wanted to succeed. This simple historical fact is consistently ignored by commentators and message board posters who keep wanting to proclaim the transformation of the QB.

Actually, in my post I thought I explained why I chose 1989, and I also noted specificaly that I was asking about the Florida QBs. I even mentioned Kelly, Kosar, and Testaverde in my post; did you not read past the first sentence? They all succeeded when Miami ran a pro-style offense, and were well-prepared to play in the NFL. Since 1989 with Steve Walsh going high in the first round, I cannot think of a single QB from one of those big FL schools being a success in the NFL. I find that fascinating, considering that those three schools have had such high powered offenses in the past 20 years, and which leads me to wonder whether the systems those teams have run have worked against producing successful pro QBs. I don't need you to tell me that the past does not predict the future. Though I must say that there can be correlations between past perfomance and the present. To respond to your own examples, both Cutler and Brady played in pro-style offenses in college, not in gimmicky spreads, which would actually come closer to proving my own point.... Tebow may indeed be a success in the pros, though I have a hard time believing that any NFL team will retool itself to fit his skill set. He will need to do at least as much retooling. Time will tell.

I have a question for all Tebow fans that has been bothering me: Despite all of the success that the "Sunshine Showdown" schools (Miami, UF, and FSU) have have since 1989, including all those prolific offenses, can anyone think of ONE QB from any of those three programs since 1989 (the year that Steve Walsh was drafted and projected to be better than Troy Aikman) who has turned into a successful starting pro QB? I have to say I can't think of one, though I can think of several who busted, including Walsh (who became a journeyman with Chicago, admittedly), Gino Toretta, Danny Wurffel, Ken Dorsey.... Anyone want to help me out? That being said, I think there is a lot to be said for the decline of FL QBs being connected to the Florida schools abandoning pro-style offenses (in which Kelly, Kosar, and even Testaverde were successfully groomed for the pros) in favor of the gimmicky spread offenses that work well in college with their wide talent disparities, but fail in the pros. I am open to being educated here....

Reading your messages out loud, with the random capitalizations, makes them sound positively Shatnerian.

For a guy whose avatar says "never give up," your creation of things to worry about seems a bit out of place, don't you think?

This may indeed be true, but I hesitate to accept as gospel medical reports from someone who writes that people "seeked" anything. What are ya, Popeye the Medicine Man?

If I may extend this thread just a bit further, and answer the OP, I think that the question of why people make such a big deal about particular celebrities is related to the orthographical problems pointed out by myself and others. Many people who spell badly, especially on message boards, will argue that such details are irrelevant. But it is precisely that inability or unwillingness to concern oneself with the details of a particular sport or subject that lead people to focus only on some immediately visible representative of that subject. If one takes the time to think, to analyze, to understand, one can see that baseball is much more than A-Rod, just as football is much more than TO. One has to care enough to learn, and then learn enough to know, to be able to separate the important from the trivial and transitory. It all starts with the basic details; there are no short cuts. Go Bills!

If the only tool you possess is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail....

Why do people insist on using words that they cannot spell? Mysteries of life, my friend, mysteries of life....

QFT

I am sadly not surprised to hear this. It is amazing how little regard so many institutions (not to mention individuals) have for their own history. Too many view managing all that "old stuff" as so much clutter in their hurried pursuit of the shiniest or newest thing... Sigh. You can see that I am both approaching middle age and a historian by that comment, I am sure....

Aha... I see now. Thanks for that!

Good point Ken. I should not be blaming the Bills. I do scratch my head wondering why the NFL does not tap into the huge potential gold mine of old highlight films, or even full game recordings. I guess production would be a hassle, but if the sainted BillCody1960 can do such a great job with his part time work, why doesn't anyone at the league or team offices look into it?

I loved it too. Frustrating that the Bills, in their wisdom, do not offer such videos for viewing or even for sale on their web site, isn't it?

Actually, I don't think you hate being the Debbie Downer at all. That is your problem.... Oh, and if you feel like a jerk, that might be because you sound like one in this post. Whether you are one or not, I have no idea. You say you are a Bills fan, so you have that in your favor.

Exactly right, nucci... though I would go even further. Anyone who uses the word "realistic" in discussing the activities of a bunch of genetic mutations in Halloween costumes beating the snot out of each other for the entertainment of others deserves to be laughed out of the Internet. You want realism? How about this, Buster? You are spending your time choosing to be gloomy about a voluntary activity. If you like doing that, good for you, but stop trying to claim that you are more realistic for doing so....

They do say a lot, don't they? Some of them say that posts like this are beyond worthless, but I see no reason to listen to them.

I do not think his position deserves any respect at all. It is idiotic at best and insulting at worst. (a SLAP IN THE FACE! if you will.. ) He has chosen a career as a sports talk host, and works in the WNY market. If he really means it when he says he hates discussing the Bills (which is an open question—if he thinks this is a clever way to gain listeners then he deserves an even harder SLAP IN THE FACE than usual...) he can A. Move or B. Get another job that fits better with his inflated sense of intelligence. with an option on C. STFU