RJ (not THAT RJ)

That call on Orton was terrible and unnecessary. Reminds me of a call against Kelly back in 1996 on the final drive against the Dolphins. From the 5, he goes back, looks... no one is open, and throws the ball out of the end zone. Flag for grounding. Capricious, indeed.

He threw his fit about the no-fumble from Mercury Morris and the PF on Pat Toomay for bumping an official at the critical moment of the game at the orange bowl in week 12, 1975.

That video soothed my soul as well, since I couldn't watch the game live. Many thanks!

Jimbo Fisher is a buffoon and a terrible person.

I think that it is a sign of Hogan's development that he is at least now causing flame wars comparing him to a solid pro like Mike Williams rather than to an UDFA flash in the pan like Da'Rick Rogers.

I'm with you, Hondo. I was thinking especially about the Pats game in 1977, a week after OJ was lost for the season, when Hooks ran for 150+ in a 24-14 upset, but I like those other two memories as well!

I suppose it depends on the question, and whether one is interested in finding an answer or has some other agenda. But let me be a bit more clear. No, I am not going to comb through a decade plus of TSW to provide specific examples, nor am I going to start any further flame wars by mentioning posters by name. I will say, however, that several names that have shown up in recent threads denouncing this win are familiar to me (and to a lot of other posters on this board as well, I wager, based on the comments on this thread) as folks who have 1) called themselves "realists and 2) scoffed at the notion of moral victories. If you think that the absence of footnotes makes my point invalid in the context of a discussion on a fan message board, that is certainly your prerogative. If you want to say that I'm off base in claiming that there are any people who have taken the two positions mentioned above, I'll have to disagree with you. If you are trying to make some other point, I'm very interested to hear it.

I only wish it were possible to reconstruct the Shout Box during that drive. The number of "this team sucks... ugh" posts would make you think that Orton threw three interceptions.

Is this some sort of challenge, or do you want me to do your homework for you? If you read the "Embarrassing Win" thread, you will find the use of the word "realist" in several of the gloomier comments. One particular Italian-comestible-named poster comes to mind, on that thread and this one. Both during the game and afterward, this member of TBD since 2002 saw several of the usual gloomy "realists" taking such a tack.

I can't imagine he will hit the jackpot based on his performance this year, which leads me to believe he may choose not to opt out of his contract. That way, if the Bills don't decide on their own to move him, he has another chance to rack up stats at a nice salary before trying to hit the FA jackpot.

Amen, brother.

Every now and then I reflect upon how I listened to that entire GD game on the radio, and still am amazed that a Bills team with Marshawn Lynch and Terrel Owens, playing a Browns team who QB went 2-17 on a sunny fall day, managed to lose that game that way. The Magic of Dick Jauron, Ladies and Gentlemen!

I know nothing about him, except that he did do reasonably well in Philly. And that self-appointed personnel experts on TBD have been calling for him to play all season. Which may not be much of an endorsement.

Hopefully, Bryce Brown will channel his inner Roland Hooks and seize the opportunity...

Indeed, though it is a big if. I would very much like to see FSU police itself appropriately, but my faith in the institution is limited. I guess we'll see.

I think that Hogan is helped by the fact that he and Orton probably practiced a lot together when they were both backups. This happens a lot--I remember noticing that when Frank Reich took over for Kelly in 1989 he started targeting Beebe a lot more than Kelly did, for example. It's good for Hogan that he seized the opportunity yesterday. Will be interesting to see how he goes from there.

Society values complaints more than praise. People show how smart they are by finding things to dislike. It's a human trait magnified for those who write for a living.

Bravo.

No, I don't think the Bills looked like a playoff team yesterday. On any given Sunday, a lot of playoff teams don't look like playoff teams either. But you know what all teams need to do if they want to go to the playoffs? They need to leave the field with more points than the other guys--i.e., they need to win. That's my sober reason for thinking that winning was a good thing, even if the team (as Doug says) needs to get better.

Well, as long as FSU has both both Tallahassee police and the zebras pulling for them, they should have no problems the rest of this season....

I know you think that this attitude makes you a realist and a winner and someone who expects excellence. And also that you are not alone here. But I can only respond with a sentiment I have expressed many a time: Relentless negativity is no more realistic than relentless optimism, and it makes you a lot less fun to be around.

All those who think of themselves as "realists" love to argue after any loss, "It doesn't matter how well they played, or if there were bad breaks, there are no moral victories. A loss is a loss." And yet today, after an actual victory, we can hear voices, indeed from many so-called realists, that this win is not a good win, not a real win, because it should not have been this hard. Essentially, those who claim there are no moral victories are claiming the existence of moral defeats. Come on now. Does anyone else see how horribly self-defeating and unnecessarily negative such an approach to life is? If a win is a win, this is a win. Would the Bills win every game if they played as they did today? Certainly not. But they won today. Next week, do we hope they will play better? You bet. But they won today. Hope lives. Embrace hope, my friends. It is what makes life worth living.

Squib kick? They were kicking into a stiff wind....

I think that the obsessive desire to focus on Offensive and Defensive coordinators is a product of the last couple of decades, as TV in its never-ending search for images, discovered the entertainment value of showing guys like Chucky or Mike Martz, etc. Coordinators have always been important, of course, but not up there with the HC on the sidelines. Who knows (without goggling now) who was John Madden's D-coordinator? Or Chuck Noll's?

While catching the winning TD pass...