PBF81

We can find at least one exception for any situation that we want. But absolutely no one would say, let's keep drafting QBs only in rounds 6 & 7, that's where Purdy and Brady were found. "You telling me that great QBs can't be had in rounds 6 & 7?" ... for example. Sure, anything's po;ssible, but whether it's likely is altogether another. Levy sucked hind teet in KC. He was awful. Moreover, he too got by on the talent of the team that Polian put together. Polian called that group of talent "special." It was special. Why do you think that Levy degenerated to a .500 coach the moment that Polian was fired and stopped bringing talent in through his pipeline. Had we had Parcells, Johnson, or Gibbs coaching the Bills from '90 to '93, we'd have two Super Bowl wins by now. It's similar here, today. Either way, and again, we can go back-n-forth, but it doesn't matter, but at this point the pressure's on McD at the national level now to produce. I don't think that there are too many people out there however, even among Bills Mafia, that are going to be very patient for the same records that our prior coaching staffs and crap QBs were getting, when McD has Allen, which alone should produce double-digit wins every season. At that point it's quite reasonable for people to seriously start asking questions as to whether it's more Allen or more McD. Many of us already know the answer to it. I suspect taht by week 12 or so most of the rest will too. But we'll see. And I'll say it again, to date we've had the second easiest schedule in the NFL. If McD can even go .500 from here on out with teams at the top-half, not the bottom-half, of the league, then it'll be semi-remarkable. Let's see how we play against Tampa on Sunday. The crowd's going to let us know how they feel if we treat the first half like a scrimmage again.

Uhhhh, maybe because an offense led by Josh Allen and one that averaged 41 PPG in weeks 2-4 after that Jets debacle of a game, can't even average 20 PPG in the last three games against teams currently ranked 19th, 24th, and 25th in scoring D? Because one of the best QBs in the league has played to incredibly average standards over the past three weeks? Do I win? Bueller? Bueller? ... anyone?

Well, that's what we're about to find out. And hey, if he can turn this ship around and finish 12-5, and make a decent showing in the playoffs, good on him. He'll have my support. Until then, if he doesn't do that, and manages only 9 or 10 wins, as implied, he's moving this rig in the opposite direction. We can go back-n-forth on this, there are obviously two camps here. But the existing trend is in the opposite direction from your statements above. That's pretty undeniable, which is why the entire nation is catching on. What those in the pro-McD camp completely fail to realize, is that maybe he really has capped out. As another poster put it, some people are good and coming in and resurrecting companies, but that doesn't make them good candidates to be CEOs going forward. It's quite possible and even incredibly likely, that this is the case here. Ignoring that possibility does not alter the circumstances. Why would it.

Miracles? No, but is it beyond the realm of reasonable to expect an Allen-led offense to put up more than 2 passing TDs and 267 passing yards in 5 of 7 games and when it counts otherwise? Are there significant injuries on offense?

That's fair to an extent, but 7 seasons in with little to no evidence that he's actually learned anything? That's where we are. It's hardly as if we're "inching closer every season much less every game," it's quite the opposite now, with McD toying with drought-era futility, while having Allen at QB. Here's the thing, there's no proof, but it's equally and even statistically far more likely that he's not cutting it, and we don't have forever with Allen. And if his shoulder is bothering him, who knows what's really wrong, I'm sure they won't tell us, and he'll continue to take beatings more often without developments on offense, but Allen's one hit away from us not having him.

Again, some context helps, also helping would be before-after data. Over our first four games of the season when we "were playing lights out defense" we allowed 5.7 Yards-per-Play. Not sure that contrasting the differences with defensive play against QBs like Howell in his first starts, Wilson, and Garropolo don't skew that at least somewhat. If the QBs we've faced were even average much less above-average it would tell us more. But that first line is actually an improvement.

And sometimes it's just obvious but people are hesitant to acknowledge it. Citing one exception, even two or three, is a sea of support is hardly inspiring.

We've started 4-3 times in the drought era. The last of those times mimics this season nearly to a T. Ryan's 2016 season where we finished 7-9 with Taylor at QB. The other times we started 4-3 were ... 2015: 8-8 with Taylor 2014: 9-7 with Orton 2011: 6-10 with Fitzy after starting 5-2 2008: 7-9 with Edwards after starting 5-1 2003: 6-10 with Bledsoe 2002: 8-8 with Bledsoe There were several other seasons where we started 3-4. If McD cannot at least do a couple of games better with Josh Allen at QB, ... SMH ... Arguably, Allen alone as the sole difference would have put most if not all of those teams in the playoffs in those seasons.

And BTW and FWIW, we presently have the second easiest schedule in the league for games played. Three of our four wins have been against 3 teams with Point-Differentials in the bottom-7 of the league, one of which is DFL. Our losses include teams having the second worst Point Differential, and the Jets who are also negative. That speaks even less in support of McD in our predicament. He'd better figure something out real quickly with the opposite of that ahead of us.

This season will take care of itself. We won 8 or 9 games in our drought era with QBs Rob Johnson, Bledsoe, Orton, and Taylor. If McD can't do at least two games better with Allen, then he's not going to have much support going forward whether Pegula fires him or not. One would reasonably conclude that at some point lockerroom issues will spring up as well. "Culture" absent achieving to talent levels can only carry a team so far. We've see how far that is. There already appear to be cracks in the organizational armor if we read between the lines, with people in the organization (Dorsey) already seemingly furtively sideling over to the life-preserver closet hoping to go unnoticed. Could be overreaction by whomever posed that, but it's hardly beyond the realm of reason barring a pretty monumental turnaround. McD has always been an average DC. That's what he's doing here now, producing an average, if that, D. With the injuries he'll be fortunate if he can keep it ranked better than 20th. His selection of Dorsey is just that, his selection. While Dorsey may not be terrible, he's also hardly top-end in terms of creativity and imagination for an offense. Did anyone expect that Dorsey would hire someone that if successful, would be a candidate to replace him should his D not respond. (rhetorical) Meanwhile, what could also be contributing to the problem is that McD has now successfully transplanted his former Carolina coaching staff, along with Dorsey, into our organization. After all, if we can only achieve what Carolina did, ... In short, this isn't the type of coaching staff that wins championship. That's finally going to become clear. What Pegula does about it remains to be seen. And if there's a depth issue, then point the finger at Beane, where it belongs.

That all sounds marvy (NPI), but there's also a good chance that the centralization of control by McD has led this team further away from improving than it has moved them towards it. We came out of the gates swinging and beat the hell out of three poor offensive teams and began beating our chests about how great our D was. Miami made it a game in our house with that energy, despite the final score. The game was pretty even otherwise and Miami also gave us 10 points on TOs. We've sucked mole teets since then. We've only won one game without a 2+ TO margin, that was the Giants, who beat themselves if we're going to be honest, and had an opportunity to win a two-possession game there. We need to quit making excuses and start optimizing the talent that we have. We're not going anywhere until that happens. The problem appears to be shaping up that everyone on board appears to be searching for their own lifevests now instead of being united in the task at hand. Sure, I may be way off, but reading between the lines of some of what's coming out it would also be foolish to ignore that possibility. Here's my take, that McD has finally overstepped his bounds and his hubris is now on full display. I mean honestly, he's got the entire Carolina coaching staff here from when he was there, all but. Who on earth truly believes that that is the bunch to win us a Lombardi?!? That they are really the best candidates out there of all that were/are available? It's far from a reach that McD wouldn't hire an OC that would be a threat to take his job. The other thing not talked about, unless I bring it up, is that McD was a patently average DC in Carolina. 13th average Yardage D and 17th average Scoring D there. So why are we expecting more here, now? We all applauded how our D allowed 3, ... three, fewer points in four games than the year prior, last year. But in that analysis few if any caught on that we'd also allowed over 100 yards per game more which some dismissed with excuses or being insignificant otherwise when the fact is over 100 yards/game more is hardly insignificant, particularly when it's against bottom half offenses contrasted with top-half And we need to get over ourselves regarding injuries, as if we've been the only team over the years that's needed to overcome major injuries. And perhaps this will eventually spawn a true conversation about Beane's efforts at bringing in depth. Everyone applauds and cheers our offseason acquisitions, ignores 7 seasons of play and extrapolates one or two maybe good seasons of a brought on JAG as if they're going to best their singular decent season while here. This team is no different now with White out than it was for all of last season. We talk about Jones, a very average reliable starting DT, but little else over a decade with zero recognition to back it up, as if he's Aaron Donald. He's not. Not even close. OK, great, he had a few great games but it's not as if his pace to nearly match his career totals for sacks was going to materialize in a single season. He didn't perform like that all of last season, not even close. In fact, he's already exceeded last season's sack totals, thanks largely to Howell, the most sacked and on record-shattering pace for most sacks allowed in a season, QB, and he's matched his last season TFL total and is halfway to his QB Hits total. He had a few great games, it's unlikely, ridiculously unlikely, that it would have continued all season. Let's not overrate a few games here. Groot came out of the gates similarly last season before fading too. It's what we do, we play our September as if going 4-0 therein locks us into playing in the AFC CG. Milano, OUCH! But hey, I know I've been preaching "what happens if Milano goes down?" for at least two years. One would think that the same question had crossed our illustrious experts' minds also at some point. If not, then shame on those "experts." If so, well then, why didn't they do anything about it besides leaving no other well-rounded LBs on our roster? That's a Beane issue, not ours. At the end of the day, what we're witnessing is coaching malaise. McD's bitten off more than he can chew, predictably. Dorsey, say whatever anyone wants about him, but he's not particularly creative or imaginative contrasted with the OCs that win regularly in the playoffs, which is a terminal problem. Unless Allen plays lights out, with an accompanyment by a WR, like Davis in the 13-Seconds game, we don't do crap in the playoffs and our defense all but goes on vacation. That's a coaching issue. For anyone not getting it, it'll clear up more as the season goes on. This "culture" soft undefined nonsense is fine, but how about a coach that can motivate the team to hit the field as if there's a game in a few minutes rather than one that allows them to go out as if the first 30 minutes are warm-ups, while then often being out-adjusted by his or his selected coordinator's counterparts in the final 30 minutes. Or a coach than can take the unconventional defensive pieces and reconfigure them like he's reconfigured his D's to begin with to account for the lack of a 3-down well-rounded LB beside Milano in the past? Maybe this is what happens when you build a defense almost exclusively to disrupt the passing game. You suffer injuries and it's impossible to adjust much for lack of competent depth, that everyone was cheering about upon their signings, but have nothing but diminutive LBs that specialize in pass-pro. Seems to me that the expectation is that you'll get run on, down your throat. That's common sense. As to Oliver, he's been hit-n-miss four four seasons and one of our most inconsistent players. He was on pace for 17 sacks and about 40 TFLs and 40 QB Hits. Who in their right mind thinks he would have even come close to that? His season highs to date have been 5, 10, and 14. Sounds as if he was in for another "inconsistent" last dozen games. And maybe our pace over the first four games has fed into all of our injuries. Had we sustained that, we'd have shattered both franchise, player, and team records. Things like that don't happen, ever. If they did it wouldn't be with this roster. Sometimes you just run a hot streak, like we've done at the beginning of the season now for three straight years running. It's a coaching trademark for McD. Someone posted in another thread that without White, Milano, and Jones having taken any snaps, our defense has allowed 5.6 Yards-per-Play. That stuff is meaningless without context. I just ran the numbers for our first four games, and unless a mistake was made, we allowed 5.7 YPP with them in. This season is a mirage. Our start against the Jets and last three games is closer to reality than our having lit up the Raiders and Skins, and played the Fins equally but winning that game on the merits of two TOs with it otherwise having gone either way. We're not as bad as we were against the Giants, but we're also not as good as we were against the Raiders and Skins. We'll see how it shakes out, but it's seasons like this where coaches earn their keep. There were five seasons in the drought years where we won 8 or 9 games. Our QBs in those seasons were Rob Johnson, Bledsoe, Orton, and Taylor. If McD can't win 10 or 11 games with Allen, .... SMH.

The Pats have their issues, but they're also not as bad as everyone makes out. Three of their losses have been to Miami, Philly, and Dallas, and one-possession losses to Miami & Philly. Our three losses have been to them, the Jets, and Jags. The only decent team we've beaten is Miami, which we got up for as if it was the Super Bowl. Even then, without two (2) TOs handing us 10 points, that game's in play. Our team's been overrated from week 1. So has the defense. More on that in another post. We need to get over this notion that losing Milano and Jones knocked us from contenders to also-rans. Damaging, sure, but not completely incapable of being overcome, particularly given our most recent 20, 14, and 25 point offensive performances.

Considering that he was a patently average DC in Carolina ... Knowing about defending an offense is much different that scheming and running one, much more knowing how to effectively use a special QB. If they weren't true, then you'd have DCs becoming OCs and visa versa. Complete alignment on the pressers statement.

Was watching some of the game earlier, didn't see much, if any, three man pass rush. I'll watch more when I have time. Do you know what part of the game they used only three?

7-10? If that were to happen then they need to let the entire staff go. This is a 9-8/10-7 team with just about any coach. Let's see how things play out.

LOL Great caste. Hank Azaria ... LOL Put a few "The Process" and "have to do better's" in the subtitles, and eh voila!

I'm sure it's a little more complex than that, but McD's gotten quite a bit of lattitude in avoiding criticism to date. The mystery surrounding what really happened with Frazier, same for Daboll, his taking over of the D, etc., at some point, namely this season, we were going to find a bunch of stuff out and have more dots to connect, that much was obvious before the season began. But here we are and the picture's already starting to clear up. McD was a very average DC in Carolina, and that's already beginning to repeat itself here. As to Dorsey and the offense, Dorsey, whom McD had full faith in, was McD's choice, so of course the responsibility comes down to him. He also shouldn't get a pass for having the entire top of his staff be people that worked under or across from him in Carolina, unless one of course thinks that the odds of the best people for the position were all on a Carolina team that had similar struggles in the playoffs that we've had here. Anyway, there's more to it than simply pointing the finger at Dorsey, but why McD's gotten away with almost none of the criticisms pointing back to him is semi-remarkable. But that's starting to change. One can only swap out the piece parts so many times and still have scapegoats.

Well, and we're never going to agree here, but the dropoff from Jones to Phillips isn't as great as everyone's making out. It's short memory syndrome. To start, Jones wasn't the wrecking crew that he was in three games this season any of last season. That wouldn't have lasted. As it is, it appears that the entire team D exhausted itself through the Miami game and that the tank has been empty since, with or without Milano and Jones but obviously worse with them out. Phillips and Jones have played about the same number of seasons and games. Phillips has started fewer than half as many games but in less than half the starts and about 2/3 the snaps, Phillips has significantly more sacks, more TFLs, and the same QB HIts in his career. That wouldn't be the case if the dropoff was that large. We've turned Jones into a legend his play against the Raiders, Skins, and Miami. The entire team went nuts during those three games. To the extent that they spent themselves. Again, we won't agree on that, but losing Milano is altogether different. But it wasn't an exercise for MENSA members to figure out what would happen if Milano ever got hurt. You know that. We'll see what happens going forward. None of this is worth debating though.

Yeah, common sense. But still, there's no reason why a D should go from stout up front to that with the loss of a single player. Also, a giveaway, is that everyone's talking about Jones as if he was a perennial pro-bowler or something. He's been a very average player throughtout most of his career. Last season here he was good but hardly earth-shattering. He had a great start to the season, but to think that he was going to play like that all season long is ridiculous. Be nice, but obviously wasn't going to happen. Either way, you've gotta make due. We'll what happens going forward. Again, we're hardly the only team that sustains injuries, and in fact, we've been on the lighter end generally speaking. I mean one of the Bosa's went out a couple of seasons ago and that D didn't plummet off the face of the earth. That's like losing Milano. But the problem there is no significant depth behind him and no one even approaching being able to take his place. That's on Beane. I know I've been mentioning it for two years. No doubt he was aware. They just have other plans, and when your entire philosophy depends upon rotation of players, and several go down, you're impacted primarily because you can no longer rotate the same class of player. Not necessarily because a couple of players are out. Make sense? That may be generally true, but it's still vivid in my mind him also spending much time in the pocket, or at least in his backfield. LOL I haven't watched the review yet, I'll try to get to that. This week's game is going to be interesting.

Spotrac could be wrong, IDK. Just plucked it off of there.

Well, OK, obviously, as it would be on any team. But does that explain the drop off a cliff in the production of Groot, AJE, and Floyd, who combined for 0 sacks, 0 TFLs, and 1 QB Hit among them? It could also be that we overrated everyone based upon our play against QBs like Wilson, Howell, Taylor, and Garoppolo.

Last season through 7 games we had 860 rushing yards. This season, 790 so far. 642 and 4 TDs w/o Allen's contributions. Cook has 1 TD, Murray 2, and Harris 1. Last season thru 7 games Allen had 306 yards and 2 TDs. Without him last season, the first 7 games, the team had 554 yards. Cook & McKenzie both had 1 TD.

176 snaps last season Two half-sacks 0 TFLs 2 QB Hits He'll be 37 before the season ends. 1-year $2M contract with the Eagles last season

No disagreement, but they knew that when they drafted him. Here's what we need to understand, yesterday's game forced our defense into a more traditional role, or at least that's the way it ended up. We're not built for that for the very reason you stated. McD's D has been predicated upon swarming players rotating in and out. In this game he had to rely more on his depth. Without Milano we have no one that's stout at the point of attack up-the-middle, even a brick-footed larger LB would have been useful, although he wouldn't have fit into the D the way that it's run. File under if you're going to run this kind of a D, best to make sure you have the appropriate depth players. We obviously don't, and opponents, offensively weak ones, have figured out how to capitalize on it. Still, it doesn't' explain why three of our leading pass rushers, all of whom played, two of which started, netted 0 sacks, 0 TFLs, and only 1 QB Hit. Rousseau, Floyd, and AJE, oddly all getting only about 50% of the snaps. Plan on seeing more of the offensive game-plan that Belichick brought. Our defense in general is average or so, but our rushing D is bottom-dwelling right now. It's one of our worst in franchise history. There's no reason to expect that to change. And considering that the offenses that we've played to date are ranked ... So far, besides Miami, we've faced the 14th, 22nd, 25th, 27th, 29th, and 30th ranked Yardage Offenses, and ... the 9th, 18th, 20th, 30th, 31st, and 32nd ranked Scoring Offenses. Coming up we face offenses on the other end of the spectrum.