PBF81

Indeed. But it's only been 7 seasons. He obviously needs more time to iron out the kinks.

I've heard a bunch of people say that, but we were also pretty close to losing to both the Giants and Bucs. Imagine being on an 0-5 streak right now. The only difference is that in '21 at that point we had a 4-13, 5-12, and 7-10 team left to play, and the Pats who ended up being 10-7. This season we have two teams that have already beaten us remaining, three other current division leaders, and the Cowboys which are in 2nd in their devision behind Philly, one of the division leaders on the team. Arguably the easiest remaining game is next MNF vs. Denver. We have had the second easiest schedule to date this season. If we're going to win the division, it's quite likely that we'll need to beat @Miami and NE and the Jets at home. That seems like a tall order at this point in time. Of the 8 games remaining, thinking that 4-4 would be good given how we're playing. That would put us at 9-8 without many tiebreakers.

Thanks for reporting! This staff isn't going to be getting many if any benefits of the doubt going forward at this point. They've blown whatever good will they've had for this season anyway. It's already an uphill climb for McD to salvage this mess. I'm seriously wondering when he's going to throw Dorsey under the bus and promote Brady into the role. Not that he's competent there as the odds are beyond slim for someone that has absolutely no track record of success in the role. It's going to be interesting to see how this shakes out and how patient Pegula is smack in the middle of an attempt to sell season tickets and PSLs to fans that already seem to be growing thin on patience for the current staff. And no matter how bad anyone thinks we are, honestly, we're presently seeded after the Steelers, Browns, and Jets, none of which have great QBs to understate their condition.

Perhaps he felt that our offense wasn't inclusive enough. Maybe some players weren't happy with their roles, and in the interests of positive culture McD decided to try other styles of offenses. Maybe they'll put a tent on the field as a safe space for any player(s) that aren't happy with their roles during games. That could help. And for the players on D for which it's too much trying to play more due to a couple of injuries there, maybe a tent on-field with comfort dogs or something too. We could put snap counters on players, and once their forced over a certain percentage of snaps, into the comfort animal tent they go for treatment. It's so exciting to see where this goes!! Either way, it's good to see that our Head Coach was on top of things and made sure to abandon things that were working so that we could be inclusive to the feelings of other inanimate styles. There's no denying the fantastic culture he's built here.

Come on now. Be patient, ... trust the Process!

Of course it is. That's why leadership (aka coaching) needs to be replaced. No one in charge, in applying good management, should have attempted to "sustain" it any longer than absoluely necessary. Meanwhile, how badly it's screwing with Allen's mind is anyone's guess. Yes, I realize that. I'm too tired and don't care enough to explain it further. No worries, it's really not that important. As I like to remind people, myself included, not a shred of anything we say here really matters. It's all just filling our time. LOL Frankly, if someone at OBD did happen to have their ear to the forum here, they'd probably go nuts in a matter of hours.

It may not be the direct topic, but it without question has an indirect impact on the situation. So you're saying that the rate of fumbles among scrambling QBs is the same exact percentage chance or outcome as those from RBs/WRs/TEs that are carrying the ball? Got any mathematical evidence for that, I'd love to see it and the source. I haven't been able to find anything from numerous sources. Either way, that was my point. I'd be incredibly surprised if the rates were identical. And how's that compare to RBs for example? BTW, Chicago was the worst team in the league last season. Could at least partially be why whatever Fields did, Fields did. Again, not my point whatsoever. I'm interested in the fumble rate data that you're looking at, largely because I couldn't find it. And BTW, you do realize that you're arguing staunchly against a generalized "more touches, more fumbles" likelihood, right?

BTW, here are our available starters on D after the longer-term injuries generally speaking: Groot Floyd/Miller Oliver Phillips Dodson Bernard Johnson Jackson Benford Poyer Hyde There's only Milano and Jones without comparable backups. Two players, not a "decimation" nor anything close. It's a few injuries, key ones, but hardly anything many other teams haven't seen without falling apart from the levels of 1st overall to DFL overall. That secondary should be fine. And maybe it's time to ditch Hyde with his never-ending injury concerns too. But that's a Beane thing. We also have Floyd which we didn't have last season. Maybe time to see what McD really has in terms of coaching up the D. In Carolina his Ds there averaged 17th scoring in his six seasons there.

Of course not, but like everyone was focusing on his 2.5 sacks, 3 TFLs, and 5 QBHits over three games, a pace of 13 sacks, 17 TFLs, and 28 QB Hits, nearly his 9-season total, over three games, you're saying don't do that then like everyone is in establishing how much of a force he's been this season? Roger.

OK, agree to disagree. They're a hit, but such that, and with our replacements now, like Douglas who's playing better than White has in two seasons, it drops a team from #1/#2 overall to DFL, nah, no way.

Phenominal's a bit embellishing for a DT that logged a sack and a pair of half-sacks, 3 TFLs, and 11 QB Hits on a 16-game season. As to White, we all know that White hasn't been the player that he was since getting hurt and hasn't recovered yet to date. Douglas will be better. So there's that, which is a wash. The primary player is Milano, and that situation is the creation of McBeane, the depth part of it. Either way, other teams suffer worse injuries than we have without dropping from the top of the rankings to the bottom of them. Some are using that as an excuse to defend McD and Beane if we can be honest. Yes, it's a hit, but not that big of a hit. If you do a man-to-man analysis of their D vs. ours yesterday, as it was on the field, ours is better. Take a look at their secondary some time. There's no way theirs even approaches ours. The front-7 is comparable. And three starters, what, we're the only team to have lost three (or more) starters without having melted down? On a related note, take a look at where their front-7 starters as they were on the field yesterday were drafted when you have a few minutes.

He's not as good as people are making him out to be. He was on pace to shatter his season best numbers, this single season, by five times over. He hit a streak. He's a solid player, but everyone's making him out to be much much better than he was after he, and the team, ran a hot streak against a few cruddy teams.

Right, but Jones was massively overrated. I mean it's no accident, in fact it's rather routine for McD coached teams here, for us to come out of the gates swinging, several players really stand out early in the season, before fading away. This notion that Jones, a JAG in essence throughout his 9-year career, all of a sudden in the early part of his back-9, "came on." It was a short spurt for him, much like Rousseau last season had one. Meanwhile, Oliver's continued his old now you see me, now you don't role. Our secondary is better now than it was for most of last season. Of our starting F7, we have 5 players of 7 that were designed starters. If losing Jones and Milano cause that kind of downfall in the rankings, then McD should be fired right now.

That's likely just another road-block of gibberish that they've thrown out at us. Frankly, it only means something to someone that actually understands what "complimentary football" even is, and there's not a lot of evidence that their definition of it is even a workable/viable one.

As things now stand, the way that this is all shaking out is that Dorsey's in way over his head, and playing fantasy football with a real life roster. McDermott's bitten off way more than he could ever chew, and his incredibly average status (17th average scoring D) from Carolina is rearing its true head. McDermott is entirely impotent to be able to contribute to the woes of our offense, or mentor or coach-up his own choice for our issue-laden OC. The wheels are without question starting to come off of this hayride. Where this wagon ends up is anyone's guess. The madness, disappointment, frustration, and perplexity surrounding everything stems from the mindless incapacitation of our offense and lack of resources devoted to bolstering the strong suit of our team that McD's been gifted with. Same thing with our injuries. If there's no one to back up Milano effectively, perhaps McBeane can go back and review their choices for the LBs that they drafted in round 3 this and last draft, while considering that they drafted no LBs in rounds 1-4 in the three drafts prior to that as well. No one can replace Milano, but it's them that wanted smaller, faster, "more disruptive" players, rather than stout middle road blockers.

Our injuries are not that bad. Honestly, Milano and Jones. White hasn't been around for the vast majority of either of the last two seasons. Jones simply started strong, he did nothing even approaching his play in the first few games this season against some of the worst offenses in the league, throughout the rest of his nearly decade-long career. It wouldn't have lasted. Our starting line-up is largely the players that they themselves have drafted, and apart from Milano and Jones is what it would have been anyway. We knew coming into the season that White hadn't played well in the few games he was in last season, so no difference there. Von Miller, yeah, a 34-year old player that got injured. Not a problem unless you give him a 6-year $120M contract at the age of 33, with nearly half of it guaranteed. We have key injuries, but one player shouldn't explain a drop from 1st/2nd to DFL. If it does, LOL, well, then time for a new "defensively oriented" head coach. While we're at it, let's get an offensively oriented one since we haven't been able to count on our marvelous 1st or 2nd ranked Ds in the playoffs anyway.

That's his problem. He created the mess, let him correct it. Let's see what he can do to earn those multi-millions that Pegula pays him. Option 4, whose ship has sailed, is not to put yourself in a position to have to make such risky "win now" decisions, in the case of Von Miller, and in the case of Knox, if they had a plan, then again, it's far from evident with the overlaying of Knox with Kincaid. That whole "12 personnel" thing also seems to have been poorly thought out. I'd choose that option, Option 4. That's since dropped off as stated. What I don't do is excuse the ridiculous nature of them besides White. Von Miller was a high-risk/high-reward contract, with known risks getting it. Not least of all for a well past-prime player, and regardless of how good he was five seasons prior. Knox, ... LOL, I mean WTF. They throw that kind of money at him and then work him out of the offense. It might be capable of being dismissed if we hadn't done the same with Hines for example. But then draft over him in the 1st round? It makes one wonder if McBeane are constantly shooting from the hip rather than attempting to implement some kind of plan based upon a well thought our and well reasoned out approach. Many of us do not see such a plan or any evidence that one ever even existed. ... oh wait, completely forgot about the completely undefined "Process." I guess we're still in "Trust the Process" mode. Like a broken watch, apparently it'll come through for us once over 20 seasons as long as we keep McD on and remain patient. He'll figure things out after a while. Things that other coaches figure out in a season or two. Maybe the 8th time will be the charm next season. LOL

So to you a fumble by a fumble-prone RB on a routine play is the same as a fumble committed by a QB that's getting no help from his play-calling or skill position players, largely as a result of that play-calling, and therefore takes it upon himself more often than he should be forced to, while trying to get a drive-saving 1st-Down or TD near the GL because he really doesn't have any reliable GL RBs then? Well, OK, we'll agree to disagree I suppose.

My answer to this poll is that Dorsey's never been qualified to step into a role as a novice and completely inexperienced OC. That's McD's decision, therefore he bears blame as well. Why anyone would think that someone of Dorsey's blank slate background with little to even remotely suggest or project future success as such would be a good hire to hand the keys to a Ferrari to is highly questionable. At the end of the day, McD is the head coach of this team, and his statements in pressers about not knowing what's going on or how to correct it, ... LOL, ... whatever. But that is clearly indicative that he's in over his head. It's also quite a bit unbelieveable that he doesn't have a hand in the offense to at least some extent, the extent to which can be argued. But if not, how about a coach that knows offense and is on top of his own pick for OC!! That sounds like a more rational approach. McD's gotten way more leniency than most other coaches would have gotten for no other reason than the pre-Allen circumstances of this team. Not sure how it's going to shake out, but the narrative supporting McD is crumbling in major ways now and is now also in the mainstream. Pegula's got a problem on his hands as selling PSLs and tix costing twice what they now cost, on top of PSLs, is going to become more difficult if this team cannot become a perennially good offensive team given Allen's presence. One more season of this nonsense and good luck to that effort. A non-insignificant number of STHs here have even expressed that they're not renewing, and that is with the understanding that we would win the division every year while Allen's here.

Well, based on my post above (last post on page 1) re: Mahomes, the differences are not so insignificant. Here it is again; The notion that the premise is faulty is arguable at best. To start, it's a reach to think that McD want Allen to provide that much of the offense and therefore that much of the rushing component. But the primary reason why it's not faulty is that it is what it is. We're not talking about reasons, which get into the prior sentence, and which is an entirely different discussion revolving around coaching. Something that many here seem to be hesitent to discuss critically. A better metric for this would be TO metrics divided by passing and rushing. Largely because there's a difference in the league average TO rate, more than likely that is, between rushing fumbles and passing INTs and even sack fumbles-lost if we want to break that down. FWIW, career INT% rates and (TD% in parentheses): Mahomes 1.7% (6.3%) Allen 2.4% (5.4%) Hurts 2.0% (4.4%) Burrow 1.9% (5.1%) Taguvailoa 2.2% (5.1%) Lawrence 2.0% (4.8%) Herbert 1.8% (4.8%) Not sure that's an insignificant difference in this regard, particularly when contrasted with the TD%, which is in parentheses. Of those top QBs, the only one that's superior to Allen in both is Mahomes. But much of that is also related to proper coaching, better play-calling, more optimal use of offensive resources, etc. There will be some subjectivity in trying to figure out to what extent. Also, how many fumbles by Allen were by him trying to run, often because we have no running game or coaching that get maximize what we do have for rushing capability in any given game? Here's the breakdown by the same QBs for # Carries, Rushing & Receiving TDs, and Total Fumbles for each's career. Allen: 86 games, 590 carries, 45 R/R TDs, and 55 Fumbles. Mahomes: 89, 341, 12, and 34 Hurts: 54, 455, 33, and 31 Burrow: 50, 177, 10, and 21 Tagovailoa: 45, 124, 6, and 24 Herbert: 56, 201, 11, and 18 Lawrence: 42, 177, 7, and 27 Allen has a very significantly better Rushing & Receiving TD to Fumble ratio of any other QB in the league besides Hurts, and Hurts is also the only one that approaches Allen in terms of per-game rushing contributions. RRTD to Fumble ratio: Allen: 81.8% Mahomes: 35.3% Hurts: 106.5% Burrow: 47.6% Tagovailoa: 25.0% Lawrence: 25.9% Herbert: 61.1% That is hardly insignificant. It actually supports the argument, substantially.

Agreed. I'm in the camp that sides with the fact that the only reason he has to do so much is due to poor overall coaching. ... without getting into the details of to what extent or why. To your point, he's got 3,320 rushing yards over his 86 game career. Also 44 rushing TDs and another 208 rushing 1st-Downs. He's averaged nearly 40 rushing YPG during that span. That's also more than 1 rushing TD every other game, and 2.4 rushing 1st-Downs per game. In contrast, Mahomes in only a few more games, 89, has 1,805 rushing yards, 12 rushing TDs, and another 109 rushing 1st-Downs. The difference is coaching, and not merely coaching insofar as Mahomes goes, but overall team coaching.

Off the top of your head, which ones do you think have provided more, or there's a good chance that they've provided more? I'll run the numbers. Mahomes maybe, . To start, it has to be teams with poor running games, and I'm guessing with average or better QBs.

I just ran the numbers to date for this season. Unless I made a mathematical error ... Allen 77.8% Mahomes 79.6% Hurts 74.9% FWIW I was referring to generally speaking over the past say four seasons or so.

That should probably also be accompanied with what percentage of the offense he's expected to provide. For example, last night he provided 293 out of 317 total yards, or over 92% of the teams yards. Our RBs contributed 24 yards on 8 carries. That's the help and support he's got. It's pretty close to unimagineable that any QB has provided their team more during that same time period. I'm not sure that most QBs would do as well in that situation that he's been in for years now under "The Process." It would be nice to see how he plays with proper coaching.

Ticket sales were supposed to open up soon though. They're supposed to have virtual seat selections/tours, etc. The irony to the entire thing is that Pegula extended the exactly so that this wouldn't happen.