PBF81

So to you a fumble by a fumble-prone RB on a routine play is the same as a fumble committed by a QB that's getting no help from his play-calling or skill position players, largely as a result of that play-calling, and therefore takes it upon himself more often than he should be forced to, while trying to get a drive-saving 1st-Down or TD near the GL because he really doesn't have any reliable GL RBs then? Well, OK, we'll agree to disagree I suppose.

My answer to this poll is that Dorsey's never been qualified to step into a role as a novice and completely inexperienced OC. That's McD's decision, therefore he bears blame as well. Why anyone would think that someone of Dorsey's blank slate background with little to even remotely suggest or project future success as such would be a good hire to hand the keys to a Ferrari to is highly questionable. At the end of the day, McD is the head coach of this team, and his statements in pressers about not knowing what's going on or how to correct it, ... LOL, ... whatever. But that is clearly indicative that he's in over his head. It's also quite a bit unbelieveable that he doesn't have a hand in the offense to at least some extent, the extent to which can be argued. But if not, how about a coach that knows offense and is on top of his own pick for OC!! That sounds like a more rational approach. McD's gotten way more leniency than most other coaches would have gotten for no other reason than the pre-Allen circumstances of this team. Not sure how it's going to shake out, but the narrative supporting McD is crumbling in major ways now and is now also in the mainstream. Pegula's got a problem on his hands as selling PSLs and tix costing twice what they now cost, on top of PSLs, is going to become more difficult if this team cannot become a perennially good offensive team given Allen's presence. One more season of this nonsense and good luck to that effort. A non-insignificant number of STHs here have even expressed that they're not renewing, and that is with the understanding that we would win the division every year while Allen's here.

Well, based on my post above (last post on page 1) re: Mahomes, the differences are not so insignificant. Here it is again; The notion that the premise is faulty is arguable at best. To start, it's a reach to think that McD want Allen to provide that much of the offense and therefore that much of the rushing component. But the primary reason why it's not faulty is that it is what it is. We're not talking about reasons, which get into the prior sentence, and which is an entirely different discussion revolving around coaching. Something that many here seem to be hesitent to discuss critically. A better metric for this would be TO metrics divided by passing and rushing. Largely because there's a difference in the league average TO rate, more than likely that is, between rushing fumbles and passing INTs and even sack fumbles-lost if we want to break that down. FWIW, career INT% rates and (TD% in parentheses): Mahomes 1.7% (6.3%) Allen 2.4% (5.4%) Hurts 2.0% (4.4%) Burrow 1.9% (5.1%) Taguvailoa 2.2% (5.1%) Lawrence 2.0% (4.8%) Herbert 1.8% (4.8%) Not sure that's an insignificant difference in this regard, particularly when contrasted with the TD%, which is in parentheses. Of those top QBs, the only one that's superior to Allen in both is Mahomes. But much of that is also related to proper coaching, better play-calling, more optimal use of offensive resources, etc. There will be some subjectivity in trying to figure out to what extent. Also, how many fumbles by Allen were by him trying to run, often because we have no running game or coaching that get maximize what we do have for rushing capability in any given game? Here's the breakdown by the same QBs for # Carries, Rushing & Receiving TDs, and Total Fumbles for each's career. Allen: 86 games, 590 carries, 45 R/R TDs, and 55 Fumbles. Mahomes: 89, 341, 12, and 34 Hurts: 54, 455, 33, and 31 Burrow: 50, 177, 10, and 21 Tagovailoa: 45, 124, 6, and 24 Herbert: 56, 201, 11, and 18 Lawrence: 42, 177, 7, and 27 Allen has a very significantly better Rushing & Receiving TD to Fumble ratio of any other QB in the league besides Hurts, and Hurts is also the only one that approaches Allen in terms of per-game rushing contributions. RRTD to Fumble ratio: Allen: 81.8% Mahomes: 35.3% Hurts: 106.5% Burrow: 47.6% Tagovailoa: 25.0% Lawrence: 25.9% Herbert: 61.1% That is hardly insignificant. It actually supports the argument, substantially.

Agreed. I'm in the camp that sides with the fact that the only reason he has to do so much is due to poor overall coaching. ... without getting into the details of to what extent or why. To your point, he's got 3,320 rushing yards over his 86 game career. Also 44 rushing TDs and another 208 rushing 1st-Downs. He's averaged nearly 40 rushing YPG during that span. That's also more than 1 rushing TD every other game, and 2.4 rushing 1st-Downs per game. In contrast, Mahomes in only a few more games, 89, has 1,805 rushing yards, 12 rushing TDs, and another 109 rushing 1st-Downs. The difference is coaching, and not merely coaching insofar as Mahomes goes, but overall team coaching.

Off the top of your head, which ones do you think have provided more, or there's a good chance that they've provided more? I'll run the numbers. Mahomes maybe, . To start, it has to be teams with poor running games, and I'm guessing with average or better QBs.

I just ran the numbers to date for this season. Unless I made a mathematical error ... Allen 77.8% Mahomes 79.6% Hurts 74.9% FWIW I was referring to generally speaking over the past say four seasons or so.

That should probably also be accompanied with what percentage of the offense he's expected to provide. For example, last night he provided 293 out of 317 total yards, or over 92% of the teams yards. Our RBs contributed 24 yards on 8 carries. That's the help and support he's got. It's pretty close to unimagineable that any QB has provided their team more during that same time period. I'm not sure that most QBs would do as well in that situation that he's been in for years now under "The Process." It would be nice to see how he plays with proper coaching.

Ticket sales were supposed to open up soon though. They're supposed to have virtual seat selections/tours, etc. The irony to the entire thing is that Pegula extended the exactly so that this wouldn't happen.

The trend & pattern that has emerged is one of us going into games as if the first half is used to prepare for and plan the game, which we seem to show up for later in the 2nd halves someone. There's precious little evidence of planning going into these games.

There's quite possibly something to that. He's got confidence in his arm. He's gotta be wondering why his choice of Dorsey isn't dialing up the plays that make his peers perform better and much more consistently. That's what would be going through my mind if I were in his shoes.

I would like to take a moment to reflect on the fact that in your implication that we're talking about a head coach that doesn't appear to understand that. Either that or he's being ignored by his subordinates. He can pick his poison.

I see that some of us are taking this harder than others. Sometimes everyone just has to step away from forums for a bit.

Yet, everyone applauded his signing.

So I've heard. That's interesting though since Pegs just gave McBeane extensions, the extra years of which they haven't even entered. Not sure I see Pegula admitting a mistake like that. Hope I'm wrong. He's going to have a problem though. Ticket prices for the new digs are going to be twice what they are now, plus PSLs. He was hoping to not have what's happening now, actually happen. That's why the extensions. Grease the skids for fleecing the fans. What's going on now is not good marketing and there's zero indication that the trend will reverse itself.

LOL Funny! It was Cincy, so nothing to see here. If course prior to this or was the 2-7 Pats and siht games against the Bucs and Giants. Once it's a trend maybe. 🤔

Let's see how that "stand-up" status attacks up to money. Lots of money. Let's see how that "stand-up" status attacks up to money. BTW, the entire AFCN would be in the playoffs if they started now.

Or the Jets! To that implication, you know it's coaching when the division coaches have your number.

Clog the forum? That sounds kinda serious. Should we see a doctor? Humor aside, so would we be somewhat.

One game? I say yes. 😁

And if it doesn't change, just think how it's gonna feel when we have to pay twice the current ticket prices plus PSLs to attend home games to watch it. Meanwhile, the AFCE will likely never be as easy as it is now for us during the Allen-era, however long that lasts.

Dorsey's seemingly trying to vicariously relive his NCAA glory days via Allen in the NFL where he failed. I've thrown that possibility up in the past and it was not meant as a joke. I still can't figure out why he's even qualified to be an OC, other than checking the box for not being a threat to replace McD.

I wouldn't bet on us going 2-0 in our two home games against them either.

Maybe the reason why you're miserable has nothing to do with the fact that it was a night game. One would think that had we won a well fought game that no one would be miserable. Just sayin'.

AGREED! And Davis should also be made to buy his own meals before next game, and needs to be forced to sit alone at the kids' table too!

It's going to be interesting to be sure. But seriously, discussing making the playoffs when it's questionable whether we'll even post a winning record is premature. So, when do the "new and improved" season tickets with PSLs go on sale? That will be interesting too.