PBF81

One could quite easily argue that taking it out on fellow Bills fans, as if they've contributed to it or are the reason for it, and when the opposite is true, is worse than the complaint of the OP. There's no good reason for it. Once again, we have no say in what happens with the team. We can only influence it, but even then, there only en masse once the critical mass of fan and media opinion, which is related to fan opinion, reach a tipping point of sorts. Again, I don't think that most fans are upset with losing to better teams or when we show up with our A-Game and lose because our opponent brought their A-Game as well and simply beat us. That happens to all teams every season, including the best and Super Bowl winners. What most object to is our coach being handed the keys to something great, turning it to mush, routinely showing up with our B if not C-Games, starting games as if they're scrimmages only to show up in the second halves doing what should have been done all game, abandoning aspects of our game when that's what's working at the time, and taking a generational talent like Allen and turning him into a Fitzpatrick. Then, having the "audacity" to point fingers at the one(s) responsible. LOL Think of it as paying a top-notch contractor to build a home or home addition for you. But all you get is fly-by-night incomplete and shoddy work. Would the same people then argue that that person should simply be happy that they have a roof, leaky or not, to live under. LOL Apparently. And with that in mind, there also seems to be some misdirected anger by those that trusted and insisted that McD was a great coach despite cracks having been visible during his entire tenure, starting with the Peterman debacle outward, but have now been blatantly disappointed with the realization that their faith and beliefs have been misplaced. It seems that that is then inappropriately turned on fellow fans by some of them.

LOL, well yeah, when you begin a season with more than reasonable hopes and expectations for winning a Super Bowl, with winning the division all but a given, then lose to three of the worst teams in the league, the Jets, Broncos, and Pats, while nearly losing to two more, all while watching your offensive production plummet with one of the league's top QBs under center, and subsequently find yourself facing the Jets in a must-win game for 2nd place in the division as well as for mathematically keeping already slim playoff hopes alive, ... that'll contribute heavily to the critical nature of the fans. Don't ya think? Should that be considered unreasonable?

It was glue. That explains things.

Why am I not more convinced after reading that. LOL

Agreed It's not so much that we're bad, it's those facts as to why. The presence of Allen in particular. As Bills fans we're a passionate bunch. LOL Agree here as well. The next several games will be telling. McD will never be able to say he wasn't given a fair chance should it not work out well.

Ya know, I thought we'd beat the Broncos easily. And the Pats. Who knows what comes out of the tunnel for us.

Ya have to love threads that are about posters and not the team.

LOL Have a great Thanksgiving! Go Bills!

How do you know what I said then? It may have been nothing but complimentary of you. Your loss. Don't you have something better to do than to antagonize fellow Bills fans on a Friday night?

Take away the common games between us and them, here's what's left: Miami: Raiders @ Jets @ Commanders @ Ravens Bills: @ Philly @ KC @ Chargers New England No comparison. If that were switched I'd give us some hope, of making the playoffs via division win that is. Not in advancing past the Divisional Round for the second time in McD's 7 seasons.

Ya know, I was wondering whether anyone would make that comment. Am I the only one that often turns those idiotic game announcers off, as in mute the game, just to be able to watch the game in peace while drawing my own conclusions. 95%, if not more, of what they say is obvious. The officials tell you want the penalties are. Years ago, I think it was John Madden commentating, he blathered on about how that was one of the strengths of the team. A little later on in the game something happened, or didn't, and he completely contradicted himself and made the comment about how the exact same thing was a weakness and something that they were trying to correct. Anyway, if it's a deep throw to [insert name of receiver] for a reception, I think that we can pretty much deterimine that for ourselves. LOL The officials signal what the penalties are. You don't even need sound for that.

I'm pretty sure if we lose while scoring fewer than 20 points on fewer than 300 yards and say 15 1st-Downs, that it'll be a fair assumption that we haven't turned it around that McD some some unbeknownst reason coached a great game. When we light things up, nudge me awake. Most people watching this team avidly for the past several seasons have seen more than enough to understand the steady-state issues that McDimwit is terminally limited by. I'm not sure that watching further evidence of it is required. But hey, for some people, they can't see things coming until it's past them. I mean look at all the people still arguing that McD isn't that bad of a coach. The number one thing cited by those people as to his primary product, is some ill-defined "winning culture" that typically is associated with any team that, well, wins. That culture no longer exists. Why not? Because he, the one credited for it, has immolated it. So what's the notion that he's a good coach based on now? Some still can't see it. If McD never got Allen we wouldn't even be having this discussion now and McD would be the DC back in Carolina. BTW, you do realize that there are easier and far less time-consuming ways to watch a game after it's been played, right? I haven't been to a live game this season. I no longer live in the region. The gameday traffic related to that whole construction mess has turned me off to going to games until the new stadium is up. What I understand is that if there's some kind of indication that we have in fact turned a corner, then it'll be obvious. That it won't be shrouded in a 10 point loss to a siht team with a QB that will be fortunate to be a starter in the NFL starting next season, with excuses being made for a head coach that's being hammered in the media for coaching idiocy. Call me nuts.

What's a Schnike? -------------------- Something that very few talk about when discussing McD, or even McBeane in this mix, is that in the 7 season that McD's had, 6 for Beane, ... 7 and 6, not 3 and 2, McD's been treating this team as if it's his own private personal live FFL Defense. They trade up to get Allen, then spend almost no resources and zero 1st-Round picks on OTs or even OL-men in general, they continually sign a slew of 1-2 year cheap JAG OL journeymen, presumably panning for gold hoping to find a nugget in the even-a-stopped-clock-is-right-twice-a-day mode, coming up empty. Via the draft, until Torrence, seven seasons in, Brown was a late-3rd-rounder and Cody Ford an early 2nd was a bust. For WRs, in 6 Beane drafts, not one WR on days 1 or 2. Other than Davis in the late 4th, not where you'd typically find a #2 WR, Shakir in the early 5th Round was the highest drafted WR. No shortage of DEs, DTs, and DBs though. McD's living in the '90s.

What's a Schnike?

Completely agree. Now that things have disintegrated under McD, Pegula needs to sign him up for yet another 7 years. He did it once, he can do it again! Just BILL-IEVE!!!

Well, then as grown men getting paid multi-millions, multi-tens-of-millions in Allen's case, they'll simply have to learn to set their emotions aside and be more pragmatic and find some methodologies and approaches that are consistently effective. I mean honestly, if they haven't figured that out by now ... Not criticizing you, it's a good and valid thought, but honestly, that can't be it.

Brady was in five and won 3 Super Bowls well before he was 37. Here's the thing, he never had top WR talent with the exception of Moss. He had Gronk, but he only played with Moss for two seasons, went to the SB in one of them. Other than that he turned average WRs into something special. Allen, Burrow, and Mahomes are very different QBs as well. My point about Brady was that his coaches didn't ruin him. I'm not sure what the point you're making here is in relation to that. ?? If it's that Brady wasn't perfect, no doubt. But Brady also rarely if ever strung below-average games back to back much less in a string. Yeah, that's a great point.

OK, so suppose someone, let's say myself to keep it simple, doesn't watch the game and we end up losing 24-13. It's not reasonable for me to assume that it was either a poorly coached and/or poorly played/executed game, ... likely both? That's essentially what you're saying here. I know the roster, the coaching staff, talent level, past coaching gaffs, what the primary issues have been, but for some reason all of that's going to change on a dime? That's your implication here. Sorry, but no sale on that one. Now, if we emerge 41-16 victors, then perhaps you'll have a point, at least temporarily. But until that occurs ...

Then again, I'm told all that these teams care about anymore is corporate dollars, and corporations buy the expensive suites etc. and farm them out. Honestly though, if that's the case, then expecting loyalty from fans ... SMH

In fairness to him, if the team's not going to support him, I'd be the first one to encourage him to leave. That's Pegula's problem then. If Pegula places loyalty and "culture" crap ahead of performance, oh well, that's on him. He can't expect the fans to chum up to his new and improved twice-the-prices STs and PSLs though. Good luck with that. The fact that in seven seasons McBeane still tinker with the D instead of focusing all but exclusively on the offense really makes a statement there.

LOL That's why I gave more credit to McDaniels. Notice that Brady's career really surged once McDaniel started being the OC. But Brady developed under Weiss. The point being that I don't credit Belichick for that, at all. Weiss was a disaster as a HC at ND.

You're preaching to the choir here. As you've heard me opine many times, McD's treated this team as his own FFL defensive unit. He may have been a better hire before we got Allen. But the moment that Allen arrived, he simply wasn't a proper fit. It's cost us. The interesting thing is that the direction that this team is going in now was predictable. I didn't expect for it to be as bad as it now is at this point of the season, but the notion that fan and media opinion would swing away from McD this season had a good reason to be suspected would occur, and it has. If Pegula wants to salvage anything out of Allen, he'd better make a switch following the season. On spotrac it shows that Allen's contract has an out after the '25 season, so after two more seasons. I suspect that that's an out either for him or for both parties. Either way, while I never dreamed that he'd exercise that, now I have my doubts if things don't change at the top. And perhaps I'm off on his having the ability to get out, maybe it's just for the team, but there's an "Out" in it.

Great for you! Football's not my life. I have a family and interests. So yeah, rather than dumping an entire Sunday afternoon to watch a bunch of garbage football, I'll quite happily do something that I consider to be more important with my time thank you! I root for a winner too. Too bad that's not what McD's putting forth on the field here. Maybe take that part of it up with him. Funny how football's a business, but the moment that the fans treat it like a business they get the business from people such as yourself. Have a great Thanksgiving, ... seriously!!!

I don't even credit Belichick. I credit Charlie Weiss and ultimately Josh McDaniels who despite his failures as a HC was a solid OC. Brady had a head for the game that may be second to none in history. Allen's bright, but he also seems to be a little too disconnected at times. Who knows whether it was the distractions re: Brittany, Steinfeld, his obsession with golf, etc. One thing's clear, coaching should be mentoring him in some way. If at that point he's still disengaged, then that's another story.

I would strongly argue that. While we scored more points, still only 20, last season at Orchard Park, than we did in either of the other two games, it was our worst offensive output game of the three. The Jets outplyayed us, 19 1st-Downs to our 14, 233 passing yards to our 130, 309 total yards to our 232, thier 8-for-17 3rd-Down converstion rate to our 2-for-13. Also nearly a 10 minute time-of-possession. That was with Mike White. We'll see. I don't envision Pegula eating that extension, but if we happen to lose to the Jets at home, FUGLY's not going to be the word and will be understated. The fans at the game will openly revolt and sound like a booing chorus. The two easiest games left on our schedule are the Jets and Pats, which have both beaten us, and I'm not sure which is worse, but I'd argue that the Jets are, but either way, if Denver was a must-win game, this one even more so. I don't see how McD doesn't lose the team with a loss here. Let's see how it plays out first. Maybe we'll win 41-13. Keep in mind that Saleh also has the Jets believing that they have a shot at the playoffs, and with a win vs. us it's a better shot than we have at that point. Their remaining schedule isn't nearly as difficult as ours is.