PBF81

Fact: He's never beaten anything but a wild-card team. He came close once, but personally decided to hand the game to the opponent. Not sure that counters the argument much. Either way, argue as you may, it is a fact.

Good point about the quality of the playoff wins there. I point that out often. And yeah, you're right about him having been an OC, but college is not a good comp ,and in Carolina he "led" his offense to 24th and 29th scoring status. That's piss poor as you know. So we'll see. Going into our 8th season under McD, never having beaten anything but a wild-card team, now with a whole lot of newness on the team, my optimism isn't going to run as high as most fans'. As I've stated, we'll likely win the division and win the regular season, but I'm not sure why anyone would think that the odds of us beating a division winner are anything but less than 50/50. How much less can be debated, but less. Fair enough, but is that the only one? IDK, I too was merely asking, but I find it difficult to believe that there are more than one or two out there, and those one or two, like Lewis, likely weren't great coaches or even close. Consider too though, Lewis had Palmer and Dalton, neither of which were much better than maybe slightly above-averge QBs. McD has Allen. It's a safe bet that Lewis would have won some more playoff games with Allen over Palmer or Dalton.

If you're argument is that McD is on par with Lewis, I will not disagree.

No argument here.

Well, think about it, we're talking about a county where the median income is 68k. That's not exactly a honey hole for PSLs and tix in the $200-400 range per game. They're definitely working it. It is a business. I'm sure we'll start hearing some things once those tours begin. Word and fan sentiment should get out pretty quickly.

You missed the point. Cincy with and w/o Burrow are two different teams, just like we would be with or w/o Allen. For w/o, just look at the drought years. The Chargers with Herbert, Allen, and Bosa are an entirely different team than w/o them. The Jets w/ Rodgers would have been notably better than with Wilson. The Jags w/o Lawrence playing thru serious injury are a different team that with him perfectly healthy. That's all that was being said. Come playoff time however, the level of competition is markedly better. That's really our issue. Under McD we have yet to beat a 1st through 4th seeded team in six playoff appearances. Is there another coach in modern league history that has been unable to beat anything but wild-card teams in his first 6 trips to the playoffs? Well, we'll see. But don't be too disappointed if Brady's not all that. His career as an OC has been 9 games, in which he did not outperform his predecessor is a fact. Whether that changes remains to be seen. Not really sure what your having followed his career otherwise has to do with anything. Curious why you brought it up.

It's pretty difficult to advance past the Divisional round when you can't ever beat a playoff team seeded better than 5th and having done that only once. In 6 playoffs McD's never done that. It's difficult to imagine that he's in good company there.

Thanks! Yeah, I knew that England was a little bit different, has mainland Europe done the same?

Milano first has to come back to what he was himself. That may not be as guaranteed as we think. That's like saying that the wings can't be worse than they are at 7-11. We do not know this yet. Contrary to narrative, it did not outperform Dorsey's. The last three games of our season the offense averaged 19.3 PPG.

That is the pattern. So until further notice. We were all but injury-free on offense and yet the offense still underperformed previous seasons. The narrative on Brady is already outrunning the reality. Expect that to not go as well as everyone is hoping. This team went to four straight Super Bowls under Kelly, it can't get to one with Allen. Which is a little astonishing. A lot of unknowns and newness will be in our defense. Expect to win the regular season again, but what you said is the current standard. But we don't have a top 3 coach or even close. That seems to be the deal breaker. Until this team can beat a top-4 seed in the playoffs, the expectation should be Divisional Round loss tops.

That's what we said last year about this past season and it ended up being our easiest since 2008.

You're braver than I am. I was going to say that. LOL

As to Pegula "being stuck for 15 years," correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding of the deal is that if he moves the team, all he has to legally pay back via the existing contractual obligation, is the $850 million that the state and county kicked in. If that's true, seems to me that it's not really much of an impediment to moving. Think about it, you're having difficulties filling the seats here, but for less than $1B you can move to a huge city, perhaps a foreign one, where you'll be reimbursed that < $1B and make a lot more money elsewhere.

I've heard about the SRO section(s). I actually prefer that. They've been doing that in Europe for soccer stadiums for decades, it's a great idea. I'm curious if, as in Europe, they'll have bars that you can lean on in those sections, which are also kind of nice. Bleu Cheese Not sure about the wine.

Are you doing the Stadium Experience? Love to hear your take afterwards if so.

The cap is still somewhat of a zero-sum game, but with an ever-increasing sum, and with overlapping years in which the exercise is conducted allowing teams to "cheat" the game as it were.

Yes, but context. The odds of not having any injuries on the OL is slim.

Well, we don't really know who's capable, we had no injuries. Of our backups, can you say with any confidence that any could start all season to at least average play? Before this post season our OL's been less than great.

9 anyway. 😁 Let's hope that our OL is injury free again. It'd be a miracle if that happened. At some point shorting Allen on OL and WRs is going to be a bad look.

Good decision. Better to cut one's losses. For the record however from my standpoint, I'll stand firmly on the fact that the following, and representative of 70% of his playoff games, are not "good numbers" as you've insisted. 0 Sacks, 1 TFL, and 0 QB Hits in 7 other playoff games. 2019 v. Houston: 0 Sacks, 0 TFLs, 0 QB Hits, 4 comb/assisted tackles 2020 v. Indy: 0, 0, 0 2020 v. Balt: 0, 0, 0 2020 v. KC: 0, 1, 0 2021 v. NE: 0, 0, 0 2022 v. Cincy: 0, 0, 0 2023 v. KC: 0, 0, 0

Your quote BTW; So frankly, I'm not sure which one off you I'm trying to discuss this with.

That response of yours is a whole lot different than this one. If you want to argue simply for the sake of arguing, them simply say so. At least I'll know not to waste my time. The point about the lack of consistency and the general lack of putting up stats in big games is indisputable, try as you may. You've done zero to dispel that other than to simply "say so".

BTW, don't you also recall all of the complaining that goes on here about Oliver disappearing in our biggest of games?

2. The 13 seconds game for a start. He was our best defender by a mile that day. But you disagree. It is fine. 2 sacks, 5 TFL, 8 QB hits, 9 pressures and a pass defensed in 10 playoff games are good numbers for a defensive tackle. Just for comparison.... took Chris Jones 9 playoff starts to log a single TFL and 12 to log a sack. I am not saying Ed Oliver > Chris Jones. I am saying you need to have a proper perspective on his numbers. I don't disagree. I've consistently made two points through all of my agrumentation. First, that I'm referring to playoff games, NOT regular season games. Anyone can see that our Regular Seasons are fine, it's the playoffs where we can't beat anything but low seeds that's the issue. That's a fact. The highest seed we've ever beaten in the playoffs is the 5th seeded Ravens. Otherwise, the 6th-seeded Pats and the 7th-seeded Fins, Steelers, and Colts. The second thing that I've maintained in this, is that I'm specifically referring to consistent playoff performance. The operative term there is consistency. (in the playoffs) Oliver's career primary playoff numbers as you point out above, are 2.0 Sacks, 5 TFLs, and 8 QB Hits over 10 games. I've already pointed out that 1.0 of those Sacks, 2 of those TFLs, and 6 of those QB Hits were in the two games against Miami with Skylar Thompson, whom we should agree will never be a good much less above-average QB in the NFL, and the Steelers this past postseason with Mason Rudolph at QB and a similar argument there. Taking those numbers against two 7th-seeded playoff teams with crap QBs out of the mix, we're left with 1.0 SAck, 3 TFLs, and 2 QB Hits over 8 other games. I'll concede the Chiefs game, but I have somewhat of an issue in assessing solid play for any defender much less the defense as a whole, when we gave up more yards and 1st-downs in regulation than we did all season long. I also have to say that his solo sack in that game, his only other sack in the playoffs, was a team sack. If you rewatch it, you'll note that Hughes, Addison, and Oliver were all in the backfield on that play, which occurred at our 8 YL, but whereafter the Chiefs scored a TD anyway with Oliver doing nothing to help prevent that. But nonetheless, let's in disagreement include that in Oliver's fantastic playoff games numbers wise. What's left after that is ... 0 Sacks, 1 TFL, and 0 QB Hits in 7 other playoff games. I'll list them for purposes of our discussion. 2019 v. Houston: 0 Sacks, 0 TFLs, 0 QB Hits, 4 comb/assisted tackles 2020 v. Indy: 0, 0, 0 and 2 solo tackles, both tackles on gains of 6 and 3 and with one going for a 1st-Down 2020 v. Balt: 0, 0, 0 with 2 solo and 1 asstd., nothin' special 2020 v. KC: 0, 1, 0 with the TFL being on 1st-and-10 for a loss of 2 on Helaire, with the Chiefs scoring a TD on that possession anyway. 2021 v. NE: 0, 0, 0 with 2 solo tackles, one having been on a gain of 16 yards, the other for a 1-yard gain on a drive on which NE scored a TD. 2022 v. Cincy: 0, 0, 0 with 1 asstd. tackle on a 1-yard run gain on 1st-and-10 2023 v. KC: 0, 0, 0 with 1 asstd. tackle for a 6-yard gain for Pacheco. In order for consistency to occur, presumably there has to be some indication of it for more than 30% of a player's games. Otherwise there is no consistency. So, which of the above games, and per your statement above, are "Ed Oliver's [playoff] numbers solid? Are those 7 games numbers that you'd expect from a player getting paid what Oliver gets paid? I'm asking seriously. But point out, individually, which games you think he had "solid numbers." Let's start there. My position is clear and remains the same, I don't see any, and posting two great games against two of the sihtiest QBs we've ever faced in the playoffs in franchise history, simply doesn't do a whole lot for me in considering that he's consistent, much less anything better than average, in the playoffs. Nor does a single good game otherwise, regardless of who the opponent is. I don't believe that I've accused you of that, I fully know where you stand on that. We've had many a discussion about it. It's clear. I've appreciated your honesty there.

You dodged to both of the posts that I made around that time. I'm happy to repost the text if you'd like to point out what the disagreement is. I'm simply confused. Well then, let's start with Oliver. You stay good playoff numbers are good, which games specifically did he have good Numbers in by your standard? Let's start there. I pointed out the two against Steelers/Rudolph & Miami/Thompson, so other than those two, which of his other 8 playoff games does he post good numbers, but more relevantly, numbers commensurate with his draft status? I've been on this forum on & off since it was founded, under being names, that I don't even remember. I've taken long breaks at times. FWIW