PBF81

Your post is as good as any for making some points here. To your statement that McD exceeded expecations in 2020, while true, Allen was coming off of a 20 TD/9 INT season with criticism of him mounting. He exploded in 2020. That had little to do with McD. Think Belichick/Brady here. As to comps with other coaches, I cannot find a single coach out there, and please, seriously, let me know if there is one, that is historically considered anything better than above-average but nothing great, that never beat anything but a wild-card team in the playoffs his first 7 seasons. And that with a #1/2/4th ranked D and Allen playing better than all but a few QBs in NFL history and providing heretofore unseen play at the NFL level. Lewis is the closest comp. Reid performed much better with McNabb. McNabb! In Levy's first 7 seasons he took the team to five AFC CGs. In his second season, with the 3rd ranked D and 14th ranked O, he took us to the AFC CG, with Kelly. In four of the next 5 seasons he took us to four straight Super Bowls with Kelly and the 6th, 19th, 14th, and 5th ranked Defenses. McD can't beat anything but a wild-card team, twice against weak divisional opponents, once against a team with their third-string QB, once against another team with their 2nd/3rd string QB, another with an ancient QB in his last NFL game ever. McD has ultimately done precious little more here since he's had Allen than Norv Turner did in San Diego with Rivers. None of the coaching comps that people use to compare McD to, McD, Dungy, etc., failed to beat anything but wild-card teams thereby entirely underachieving in their playoffs. The only one that did was Marvin Lewis and last time anyone checked he's not considered a great coach. He's strongly criticized here. If he were our coach no doubt everyone would be calling for his ouster. Allen's either a generational talent at QB and better than Kelly and so many other QBs that the criticized coaches had (McNabb, Palmer, Dalton, and many more) or he isn't. It's an uphill if not impossible argument to suggest that he isn't. If he is, then the bar needs to be set higher than what we've gotten, particularly when accompanied with 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ranked Ds. Under Mahomes, KC's Ds have been ranked 24th, 7th, 10th, 8th, 16th, and 2nd. My take on McD is that being a defensive guru, he prides himself on his defense, which is why we've devoted all of the top resources to it. It's quietly been his goal to have the #1 D in the league if possible, all other things being secondary. His "complimentary football" MO feeds into that 100%. The question is whether or not that's the way and path to a Championship/Lombardi, or not. Those of us critical appear to believe that focusing on the offense, which he knows little about personally, and must rely upon people he hand selects to get the job done, but that job isn't to make the O the focal point of the team, it's to support his D ala "complimentary football." Again, my take. This is also MO as to why we'll never get a truly top-notch person in here as OC, because that person would threaten McD's tenure as HC should the team continue to fail due to our defense in the playoffs as it generally has. Either way, this ridiculous inability, regardless of opponent, to beat anything but 7th seeds (3 times), and once a 5th or 6th seed in the playoffs, once each, both teams with significant issues, is problematic. None of the great coaches failed to do that, much less in 7 straight seasons. That's a fact, how people process it is up to them. Allen cannot play the way he does and provide 80% of the offense far into his 30s. He's either going to have to change his style in several years to a more of a pocket-passing QB, which will be difficult at that point, retire, or diminish in which case the team's O would diminish with him. It would be tragic if we went five more seasons only winning the division which is mediocre to begin with, making the playoffs, failing to beat any good teams therein, while never being able to even appear in a Super Bowl. It doesn't matter whether we have to go through Mahomes every season. The Chiefs are not invincible. Cincy beat them in the playoffs, so did Tampa in the Super Bowl. Other than that, they too haven't really faced any great teams, so that whole thing is also a bit overrated. They've faced almost no great QBs otherwise. They simply don't make stupid mistakes and decisions, and their units show up over, not underachieving. That can only be attributable to preparation and coaching. Otherwise how can excelling in the regular season but choking in the playoffs be explained. At some point, much as it was in the '90s, fans are going to become discontent with merely making the playoffs and start expecting to at minimum go to the AFC CG every season. Many of us are there already as McD's been given ample time/seasons to do so but has failed. Apparently many are not there yet. Many fans simply seem quite content simply having football to watch in Buffalo, watching Allen as if we've never had a great QB here. LOL In fact, for some of our younger fans, they haven't seen a great QB in Buffalo. Which is fine, but especially given the forthcoming pricing reminding us that this is fully a business, I'd like to see more, much more, than making the playoffs followed by a Divisional-round exit. Call me unreasonable. I realize that you won't agree, I'm simply trying to clarify some things that routinely go unacknowledged in these discussions. Like comparing Reid in Philly to McD here, when Reid beat what, four, five division winners in his inaugural seasons in Philly, with McNabb, even going to a Super Bowl once after appearing in four straight Conference Championships, again, with McNabb, while McD can't advance past the Divisional Round more than once, then personally gift-wrapping the game for our opponent in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. If we're going to discuss it, it needs to be an objective, not subjective discussion.

I'm entirely with you except for the part about Bill. We'll probably disagree on this, but Brady made Bill, not the other way around. That's been my position for 20 years. Bill's finished, whether he continues to coach or not. If he does, you'll be glad we didn't get him IMO. But you're entirely on-point re: McD.

In fact, the NFL disgusts me these days. If I weren't a Bills fan I wouldn't watch it care. Makes it somewhat bittersweet for me.

Outstanding post Chaos! I would add to that by asking, is it a reasonable expectation for a coach whose team has a top ranked Defense and a generational QB like Allen, to simply win a division that's perennially one of the weakest in the league, yet be unable to beat anything but wild-card teams in the playoffs after 7 seasons. That doesn't even address the coaching flaws that were the primary reasons for our playoff losses. (13-Second, etc ). I've looked, but I can't find a single coach that has historically been considered to have been great, that never beat anything but wild-card teams come playoff time in his first 7 seasons. The inability to do that with a 1st or 2nd ranked Defense and Allen at QB is somewhat mystifying.

Yeah, indeed. Just being light-hearted of course. Seriously though, everyone's different, but for me, I'm not all that big on going to games where I know we're going to obliterate some hapless team. I prefer the bigger games, like most people. But I'm not willing to pay much for the crappy ones just to "see the team," especially in crap weather. For me, overpaying to see one or two games live is significantly less expensive than getting seasons, and then I have a choice closer to game time. If the weather going to suck I can watch it on TV. I used to have STs, but living out of town I got tired of eating them for games that no one wanted to go to when I didn't go, which was most games. That's when it hit me that it would cost me less to significantly overpay for the game or two I really wanted to see and ditch the stress and time commitment to selling the others. The major league sports business models have also gotten out of hand in the last decade or two.

That's a good deal? 🤔

That pic of his wife fits the story perfectly.

Followed by a trip to "The Pit" for some introspection and reflection regarding the imminent New Year as well. It's egregiously reaching. Has there ever been a regularly scheduled Wednesday game? Either way, it makes me want to deliberately not watch them, which I probably wouldn't anyway.

Well, the general topic started with edge-rush/pass-rush. My point is that at 30th overall Groot hasn't exactly owned up to late 1st-round status. At 61st Basham was all but a bust. At 56th AJE's been decent in a rotational role, but hardly impressive and far from some late 2nd-round "steal" as some here insisted at the time. Oliver, DT, but billed as a pass-rushing specialist DT, was also no great shakes at 9th overall and hasn't lived up to that either. That's all I'm saying. Rather than Beane using a pick to get talent that can otherwise be gotten in later rounds, and again, assuming that his pattern doesn't change, given the needs we have elsewhere, may not be the wisest use of our 1st. In the '20 Draft for example, 5 players drafted after AJE, most way after, have posted better stats than AJE. And let's not get into the yeah, but his stats don't accurately reflect his value nonsense. AJE was drafted 54th and has 15.5 career stats, none in 8 playoff games. Danna drafted by KC at 177th has 17; Uche drafted at 60th has 18.5; Wonnum drafted at 117th has 23; Greenard drafted at 90th has 23; and Highsmith drafted at 102nd has 29.5. Ours are all good depending upon the definition of good, none great, but most importantly, none show up with even the remotest of consistency in the playoffs. They all pull a disappearing act. If you're argument is that for some reason you think that the fifth time's going to be the charm, great, but I'll respectfully disagree as that makes little sense to me. Agree, and that really is the only logical primary approach. At some point this team with it's 1st, 2nd, and 4th ranked defenses and Allen, needs to beat something better than a wild-card team in the playoffs. Either way, if what you said above does not occur, then what?

At this point Beane's been at this for 6 years of drafts. The only reason why we've had an above-average WR corps on our team is because of Diggs, and Beane paid top-shelf money for Diggs. At this point in the game he needs to own the situation as such. He's got at least a mild cap issue, of which Diggs, whom many say is finished as a #1, is a significant part of, particularly if he is finished. We haven't drafted anything but a top #3 WR on Beane's watch, and that's Davis whom few like. Who knows who's driving the bus on final-say for our drafts, but at this point, get it done or find someone that can.

No, they weren't busts, but they also weren't what Beane was hoping for our advertised after the drafts, and certainly aren't consistently reliable, and Groot has a below-pedestrian 1 Sack, 1 TFL, and 3 QB-Hits in 6 playoffs games. AJE's even worse with 0 Sacks, 1 TFL, and 2 QB-Hits in 8 playoff games. Unlike Groot though, he hasn't had many snaps. Still, given that he hasn't, McD, as people here say all the time, knows what we don't know. Otherwise it would be remiss not too play him more.

It's the playoffs where the issues are however.

It might be time for our staff to recognize that hitting on edge-rushers in rounds one and two hasn't been their forte.

Also, let's not forget that the Pegula Family Goals are paramount. There's nothing in their master plan about anyone else's family goals.

Their yacht's not going to fuel itself. 😁

Not sure what he's trying to say there, McD is a word-salad master, but the bolded speaks to your point. Not so much what I think, but the actual fact is that our team is on a similar trajectory from a postseason perspective as the Norm Turner coached Rivers QB led Chargers were, except that Turner's defenses were nowhere near as good and Allen is immeasurably better than Rivers was in his best season. That's problematic. Turner didn't last this long even. Apparently a whole lot of people are content to merely make the playoffs and beat wild-card teams therein, because that's all the postseason noise we've made. Seems to me that with Allen the bar should be higher. We'll likely win this lightweight division again, make the playoffs, and beat another wild-card team. WooHoo! LOL Many are content with that. I'm not one of them.

Once again, I've never compared Samuel as a player to either of the others. I simply don't see him moving the needle like so many others here. You see the same posts that I do about how we're set at WR. That's BS! Allen's biological clock is ticking. (movie reference in a light-hearted fashion) Please stop putting words into my mouth.

More than not were quite happy with the Garty signing, but let's not leapfrog the point. The talk here was largely as to why he'd contribute, similarly to the talk about Samuel now. I know, I did the opposite and took a trash for it. The overhype re: our signings is an annual occurrence. Otherwise, thanks for letting me know what I think, but unfortunately that wouldn't be correct. 😏 You make a good point about it however, but that's a more advanced and more complex discussion.

Either that or it's a takeaway. May no longer be available. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Whatever's going on, there are plenty of PO'd current STHs. There are now groups on facebook and it's rare to read something positive from them about this entire situation. Here people are complaining too, reasonably so. The Stadium has essentially been turned over to be owned and more importantly run by an out-of-state company that has no empathy for WNY Bills fans and current STHs. They're going to do whatever they need to do in order to sell STs and they obviously don't care about seniority. Who knows who's going to ultimately buy the PSLs/STs, but in one of the forums it was posed that going to the road games may be less expensive than going to home games, the thought of which is disheartening.

No, two IMOs, one has a chance to, a likely will, and an assumption that we'll draft a viable WR capable of doing what you suggest. There's quite a bit of room for things not falling the way that you say. Again, much of the talk about Harty last season was the same as that for Samuel now. Doesn't matter the kick out the door talk now. Unlike known disappointments like Harty whom everyone was talking up at this time last year, or the perennially underachieving Samuel I suppose.

A lot of IFs and suppositions in there. All kinds of things can happen. Last year at this time the same exact things were being said about Harty & Sherfield. We'll have to wait and see how it shakes out. Oh, thanks for clearing that up. 😎

Yeah, that's the hope. We'll see. Diggs had 8 TDs, Davis had 7 TDs, and no other WR or TE on the team had more than 2. Cook had 4. If it's true that Diggs' is "slowing down" or however people want to put it, then we may not even be able to count on TD production from him either. He certainly hasn't shown up in that regard for most of our playoff games that he's been in already. Our TEs haven't changed, so that remains stable. It'd be nice to have a proven TD producer in our WR corps. Besides Diggs we do not have that. As of now, the only WRs on the team that have caught much of anything for us from Allen are Diggs and Shakir. Shorter will hopefully be good. He's a wild-card of sorts. It's our "Complimentary Football" aspect that concerns me in that regard. That and why Diggs was operating from the slot under Brady far more than he did to date on our team otherwise, which IMO is a big reason for his "decline." But what do I know. LOL

You and @hondo in seattle made the appropriate points. The other thing that cannot be overstated is the loss of chemistry on D with Poyer & Hyde both gone. That's some serious experience and on-field leadership that's now gone.

LOL, funny, no one said that Hasty was trash last season. I do recall making a similar argument regarding Hasty, and was slammed similarly about this time last year. Look, Samuel may end up with 1,200 yards and a dozen TDs, who knows. But there's nothing historically to suggest that merely switching QBs for a WR of his caliber is going to propel him statistically the way that people seem to believe will happen. Let's be real about Samuel. He's a WR that in seven seasons has amassed 3,383 yards on 10.7 yards-per-catch and 22 TDs. Sure, he has greater potential, but likely not as the #2 that everyone wants.

Well, considering that I'm not the one, among many, arguing that simply because a WR comes here that his numbers (aka TDs) will increase to the point of replacing a WR that averaged 7 TDs/season on an average of 5 targets/game, my answer would be that it depends upon the WR. Which gets us back to the initial points of the discussion, at least insofar as I brought up. Thinking that a WR that's averaged about 500 yards and 3 TDs/season without any particular propensity for the end zone, is all of a sudden out of the blue going to do much more than provide #3 WR production here is not an argument that I'm making. If people want to argue contrarily, great. I guess that's why we're here. We'll see how it plays out, but most WRs that have come here have not done that, namely significantly increased their production. Naming only one that has significantly, and another that has, only marginally despite the lack of competition for his role in the #1 spot, doesn't seem like a strong argument. Hence my comments stating given the present situation. Once again, let's hope that we draft a WR in round 1.