PBF81

That is the pattern. So until further notice. We were all but injury-free on offense and yet the offense still underperformed previous seasons. The narrative on Brady is already outrunning the reality. Expect that to not go as well as everyone is hoping. This team went to four straight Super Bowls under Kelly, it can't get to one with Allen. Which is a little astonishing. A lot of unknowns and newness will be in our defense. Expect to win the regular season again, but what you said is the current standard. But we don't have a top 3 coach or even close. That seems to be the deal breaker. Until this team can beat a top-4 seed in the playoffs, the expectation should be Divisional Round loss tops.

That's what we said last year about this past season and it ended up being our easiest since 2008.

You're braver than I am. I was going to say that. LOL

As to Pegula "being stuck for 15 years," correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding of the deal is that if he moves the team, all he has to legally pay back via the existing contractual obligation, is the $850 million that the state and county kicked in. If that's true, seems to me that it's not really much of an impediment to moving. Think about it, you're having difficulties filling the seats here, but for less than $1B you can move to a huge city, perhaps a foreign one, where you'll be reimbursed that < $1B and make a lot more money elsewhere.

I've heard about the SRO section(s). I actually prefer that. They've been doing that in Europe for soccer stadiums for decades, it's a great idea. I'm curious if, as in Europe, they'll have bars that you can lean on in those sections, which are also kind of nice. Bleu Cheese Not sure about the wine.

Are you doing the Stadium Experience? Love to hear your take afterwards if so.

The cap is still somewhat of a zero-sum game, but with an ever-increasing sum, and with overlapping years in which the exercise is conducted allowing teams to "cheat" the game as it were.

Yes, but context. The odds of not having any injuries on the OL is slim.

Well, we don't really know who's capable, we had no injuries. Of our backups, can you say with any confidence that any could start all season to at least average play? Before this post season our OL's been less than great.

9 anyway. 😁 Let's hope that our OL is injury free again. It'd be a miracle if that happened. At some point shorting Allen on OL and WRs is going to be a bad look.

Good decision. Better to cut one's losses. For the record however from my standpoint, I'll stand firmly on the fact that the following, and representative of 70% of his playoff games, are not "good numbers" as you've insisted. 0 Sacks, 1 TFL, and 0 QB Hits in 7 other playoff games. 2019 v. Houston: 0 Sacks, 0 TFLs, 0 QB Hits, 4 comb/assisted tackles 2020 v. Indy: 0, 0, 0 2020 v. Balt: 0, 0, 0 2020 v. KC: 0, 1, 0 2021 v. NE: 0, 0, 0 2022 v. Cincy: 0, 0, 0 2023 v. KC: 0, 0, 0

Your quote BTW; So frankly, I'm not sure which one off you I'm trying to discuss this with.

That response of yours is a whole lot different than this one. If you want to argue simply for the sake of arguing, them simply say so. At least I'll know not to waste my time. The point about the lack of consistency and the general lack of putting up stats in big games is indisputable, try as you may. You've done zero to dispel that other than to simply "say so".

BTW, don't you also recall all of the complaining that goes on here about Oliver disappearing in our biggest of games?

2. The 13 seconds game for a start. He was our best defender by a mile that day. But you disagree. It is fine. 2 sacks, 5 TFL, 8 QB hits, 9 pressures and a pass defensed in 10 playoff games are good numbers for a defensive tackle. Just for comparison.... took Chris Jones 9 playoff starts to log a single TFL and 12 to log a sack. I am not saying Ed Oliver > Chris Jones. I am saying you need to have a proper perspective on his numbers. I don't disagree. I've consistently made two points through all of my agrumentation. First, that I'm referring to playoff games, NOT regular season games. Anyone can see that our Regular Seasons are fine, it's the playoffs where we can't beat anything but low seeds that's the issue. That's a fact. The highest seed we've ever beaten in the playoffs is the 5th seeded Ravens. Otherwise, the 6th-seeded Pats and the 7th-seeded Fins, Steelers, and Colts. The second thing that I've maintained in this, is that I'm specifically referring to consistent playoff performance. The operative term there is consistency. (in the playoffs) Oliver's career primary playoff numbers as you point out above, are 2.0 Sacks, 5 TFLs, and 8 QB Hits over 10 games. I've already pointed out that 1.0 of those Sacks, 2 of those TFLs, and 6 of those QB Hits were in the two games against Miami with Skylar Thompson, whom we should agree will never be a good much less above-average QB in the NFL, and the Steelers this past postseason with Mason Rudolph at QB and a similar argument there. Taking those numbers against two 7th-seeded playoff teams with crap QBs out of the mix, we're left with 1.0 SAck, 3 TFLs, and 2 QB Hits over 8 other games. I'll concede the Chiefs game, but I have somewhat of an issue in assessing solid play for any defender much less the defense as a whole, when we gave up more yards and 1st-downs in regulation than we did all season long. I also have to say that his solo sack in that game, his only other sack in the playoffs, was a team sack. If you rewatch it, you'll note that Hughes, Addison, and Oliver were all in the backfield on that play, which occurred at our 8 YL, but whereafter the Chiefs scored a TD anyway with Oliver doing nothing to help prevent that. But nonetheless, let's in disagreement include that in Oliver's fantastic playoff games numbers wise. What's left after that is ... 0 Sacks, 1 TFL, and 0 QB Hits in 7 other playoff games. I'll list them for purposes of our discussion. 2019 v. Houston: 0 Sacks, 0 TFLs, 0 QB Hits, 4 comb/assisted tackles 2020 v. Indy: 0, 0, 0 and 2 solo tackles, both tackles on gains of 6 and 3 and with one going for a 1st-Down 2020 v. Balt: 0, 0, 0 with 2 solo and 1 asstd., nothin' special 2020 v. KC: 0, 1, 0 with the TFL being on 1st-and-10 for a loss of 2 on Helaire, with the Chiefs scoring a TD on that possession anyway. 2021 v. NE: 0, 0, 0 with 2 solo tackles, one having been on a gain of 16 yards, the other for a 1-yard gain on a drive on which NE scored a TD. 2022 v. Cincy: 0, 0, 0 with 1 asstd. tackle on a 1-yard run gain on 1st-and-10 2023 v. KC: 0, 0, 0 with 1 asstd. tackle for a 6-yard gain for Pacheco. In order for consistency to occur, presumably there has to be some indication of it for more than 30% of a player's games. Otherwise there is no consistency. So, which of the above games, and per your statement above, are "Ed Oliver's [playoff] numbers solid? Are those 7 games numbers that you'd expect from a player getting paid what Oliver gets paid? I'm asking seriously. But point out, individually, which games you think he had "solid numbers." Let's start there. My position is clear and remains the same, I don't see any, and posting two great games against two of the sihtiest QBs we've ever faced in the playoffs in franchise history, simply doesn't do a whole lot for me in considering that he's consistent, much less anything better than average, in the playoffs. Nor does a single good game otherwise, regardless of who the opponent is. I don't believe that I've accused you of that, I fully know where you stand on that. We've had many a discussion about it. It's clear. I've appreciated your honesty there.

You dodged to both of the posts that I made around that time. I'm happy to repost the text if you'd like to point out what the disagreement is. I'm simply confused. Well then, let's start with Oliver. You stay good playoff numbers are good, which games specifically did he have good Numbers in by your standard? Let's start there. I pointed out the two against Steelers/Rudolph & Miami/Thompson, so other than those two, which of his other 8 playoff games does he post good numbers, but more relevantly, numbers commensurate with his draft status? I've been on this forum on & off since it was founded, under being names, that I don't even remember. I've taken long breaks at times. FWIW

Instead, let's do it this way since you know better than I do. Pretty simple, which of Beane's drafted players have even remotely consistently stepped up in the playoffs? Follow-on, so you're effectively insisting that teams like KC, SF, Philly, Baltimore, and maybe a few others, have no players that regularly step up in the playoffs? (Besides Allen of course) That seems to be what you're saying. Now if you're comparing us to Carolina, Washington, etc, that's entirely different. I'm eager to get your answers.

Well, OK, but I was reacting to your disagree emoji. Ergo, I'm confused. I realize that it's a habit for you when you see my posts. 😏 As to what you said there, that's all fine and dandy, but the best way to effectively manage your cap is to mitigate your need to constantly pay top dollar for players in free-agency, and that's done via effective drafting. Common sense there. Again, you didn't address my primary point, which was the fact that other than for Allen, which goes without saying, and perhaps Davis for anyone caring to admit it, and who will now be gone, Beane has not drafted a single player that has even sniffed stepping up on a regular basis in the playoffs. You haven't named anyone that has, so I'll assume that you agree. Playoffs, not the regular season, have been our problem. We "win the regular season" every season now, but we fail miserably in the playoffs and can't beat anyone there but playoff dregs and low seeds. That's a serious problem that is in fact related to our drafting. ... among other issues also. Otherwise, and therefore, Beane isn't exactly free from culpability in creating a cap mess.

I'm not quite sure what that has to do with what I posted, at least not directly, and therefore not sure what your disagreement is. It's a fact that Beane hasn't gotten great value from our/his draft picks. Free Agency with known players/performance is where he's had his success. We can make excuses for him or argue why not, but that doesn't alter those facts. Unfortunately free-agency is substantially more costly than drafting talent, which you know. In many cases as pointed out, sometimes even by you (Creed Humphrey vs. Basham) notably better players have been available when we selected a lesser one. Either way, my culminating point was that Beane hasn't had a single drafted player that has even approached consistently stepping up in the playoffs, particularly against the better teams and tougher competition, unless of course we want to include Davis, and of course Allen otherwise. We've had this discussion. I'm all ears if you'd like to point them out.

I actually reviewed video when people said that back then, it simply isn't true, or at least wasn't true in college. He wasn't even always double-teamed and he got his a$$ handed to him in the couple of games against the big-boy teams that he played, and not by anyone that's in the NFL today. But we all have our opinions. Not sure what they're all based on, but we have 'em. And either way, I didn't seem him being swarmed in the playoffs either. Aaron Donald, whom everyone used to compare him too way too prematurely, got DT'd all the time and he managed to put up big games despite that. Just sayin'. The better players do that. Oliver has not. He's good, not great. Worth the contract, but not much more than that. Either way, playoff performances or not, he's here for years more. Our hump is the playoffs where it's all fallen apart defensively, like clockwork other than vs. the worst playoff teams against crap QBs in the wild-card round. That's going to have to change is we're ever to even make a SB much less win one. Right now there's not a front-7 defensive player on the team that has stepped up in the playoffs with anything even approaching regularity on this team.

Oliver's stats in his senior season at Houston were almost entirely predicated upon his play in three games against 3-9 East Carolina and their 109th ranked Offense (out of 130), 3-10 Navy and their 96th ranked Offense, and 2-11 Rice and their 124th ranked Offense. He had 0 Sacks and 4 TFLs in his other five games. He was overrated as a 1st-round pick, a better 2nd or early 3rd. Not one of those schools had anyone drafted that lined up anywhere near Oliver in that season. Otherwise, in 10 playoff games for us, he's got 2 sacks, 5 TFLs, and 8 QB Hits. His two best playoff games were vs. Miami (Thompson) and Pittsburgh (Rudolph) in which he logged 1 sack, 2 TFLs, and 6 QB Hits. After that he's done almost nothing with 1 sack, 3 TFLs and 2 QB Hits in 8 other playoff games.

The fact that a team is in this position is not good and generally either assumes poor decision-making or high-risk decision-making, like Von Miller's signing well into his back-9 at 33 for top money, for example. We haven't produced any premiere/elite players (pending anyone's definition of that) on Beane's watch. The best we've done is Oliver on defense and Cook on offense, with Kincaid & Torrence from the '23 Draft pending. Not one of our draft picks has done anything even approaching high-level play consistently in the playoffs, which is a problem. It's also what leads to high-risk decision-making that increases the odds of getting into the situation to begin with.

This is an interesting poll to be sure. I wish that they'd run one by fans and/or media. I'm not sure that his ranking necessarily says much beyond average. For a team that’s won their division four years running and made the playoffs in the last five, the lowest A grade and 12th in rank order seems a bit low and disconnected from that. No doubt the rankings are compiled based upon the raw scores. I took the liberty of putting all of the votes into a spreadsheet and made some observations. To start, and fueling @Mr. WEO's comment about Ivy League grade inflation, that was very much the case in the ratings for the coaches, which makes sense given the human nature of the business coupled with emotions in essence, and players simply liking coaches but not being able to critique them without such a bias in terms of achievement. i.e., simply because the players like a coach, like Allen seemingly willing to all but die for Dorsey as one mere example, when frankly Dorsey wasn't all that great. He'd have gotten an A grade from the players as well. But of the 32 grades, in coaching, 19 of the grades were in the A range. Only three were below a B range. Contrasted with the other 6 categories, Strength Coaches were next with 14 in the A range. Owners after that with 10 in the A range. Weight Room had 9 in the A range. Locker Room had 6 in the A range. Dietician/Nutrition had 5 in the A range. Training Staff had 5 in the A range. Food/Cafeteria had 4 in the A range. Treatment of Families had 4 in the A range. Training Room had 3 in the A range. Team Travel had 2 in the A range. Head coaches had only 3 with below B range. Strength Coaches had 7 below a B range. Training Staff had 7 below a B range. Owner had 11 below a B range. More critical were the following: Treatment of Families had 23 below a B range. Team Travel had 20 below a B range. Locker Room & Food/Cafeteria had 16 (half) below B range. Training Room had 15 below B range. Nutritionist/Dietician & Weight Room both had 10 below B range. So it seems that the closer it got to personal relationships, the less critical the players were. Put another way, the further away things got from someone having a direct relationship to playing time or performance, the more critical it was, generally speaking league wide. It’s a bit of a stretch to suggest that given that, that McD ranked well. Clearly he didn’t rank poorly and clearly one would think that winning cures many things, but having said that, only three teams ranked lower finished with double-digit wins; Baltimore (Harbaugh), Cleveland (Stefanski), and Houston (the rookie Ryans). Of the top-9 coach rankings, 8 of those teams made the playoffs and posted double-digit wins. The odd team out was Minnesota (O’Connell) in his second season with 7 wins. Between McD and that group were Cincy (Taylor) who was without Burrow, and Seattle (Carroll) who has made the playoffs only once the past three seasons having lost their wild-card round game last season, despite both having won only 9 games this past season and both having missed the playoffs. That info of course should make one wonder the extent to which players truly believed that their responses were entirely confidential, or whether it would come out via player discovery that they hadn’t ranked a coach, strength coaches, or training staff, that they have to work with directly highly. It’s pretty unbelievable that 29 of 32 coaches earned A & B grades. There are more coaches of those 29 on that list that few of us would give an A or B grade to, and 60% of the coaches in the league getting an A+/A/A- grade? No objective person would come to that conclusion. Again, it would be interesting if they polled the fans over this. Based on the polls already posted here re: McD, it seems that the results would be significantly different. It’s also reasonable to assume, that being a people business, it’s difficult for players & coaches to be too critical of one another when they work in such close proximity, both physically as well as mentally, to one another, for obvious reasons. That’s simply common sense. With relationships, as with any work environment, the objectivity is at least somewhat removed as a result of work relationships. But this is a business, and because it’s a business, there’s nothing wrong with treating it like a business in all phases, whether relationships factor in or not.

Or go outside, get some fresh air, and find a good activity.

Someone's got some spare time. 😁