PBF81

At this point Beane's been at this for 6 years of drafts. The only reason why we've had an above-average WR corps on our team is because of Diggs, and Beane paid top-shelf money for Diggs. At this point in the game he needs to own the situation as such. He's got at least a mild cap issue, of which Diggs, whom many say is finished as a #1, is a significant part of, particularly if he is finished. We haven't drafted anything but a top #3 WR on Beane's watch, and that's Davis whom few like. Who knows who's driving the bus on final-say for our drafts, but at this point, get it done or find someone that can.

No, they weren't busts, but they also weren't what Beane was hoping for our advertised after the drafts, and certainly aren't consistently reliable, and Groot has a below-pedestrian 1 Sack, 1 TFL, and 3 QB-Hits in 6 playoffs games. AJE's even worse with 0 Sacks, 1 TFL, and 2 QB-Hits in 8 playoff games. Unlike Groot though, he hasn't had many snaps. Still, given that he hasn't, McD, as people here say all the time, knows what we don't know. Otherwise it would be remiss not too play him more.

It's the playoffs where the issues are however.

It might be time for our staff to recognize that hitting on edge-rushers in rounds one and two hasn't been their forte.

Also, let's not forget that the Pegula Family Goals are paramount. There's nothing in their master plan about anyone else's family goals.

Their yacht's not going to fuel itself. 😁

Not sure what he's trying to say there, McD is a word-salad master, but the bolded speaks to your point. Not so much what I think, but the actual fact is that our team is on a similar trajectory from a postseason perspective as the Norm Turner coached Rivers QB led Chargers were, except that Turner's defenses were nowhere near as good and Allen is immeasurably better than Rivers was in his best season. That's problematic. Turner didn't last this long even. Apparently a whole lot of people are content to merely make the playoffs and beat wild-card teams therein, because that's all the postseason noise we've made. Seems to me that with Allen the bar should be higher. We'll likely win this lightweight division again, make the playoffs, and beat another wild-card team. WooHoo! LOL Many are content with that. I'm not one of them.

Once again, I've never compared Samuel as a player to either of the others. I simply don't see him moving the needle like so many others here. You see the same posts that I do about how we're set at WR. That's BS! Allen's biological clock is ticking. (movie reference in a light-hearted fashion) Please stop putting words into my mouth.

More than not were quite happy with the Garty signing, but let's not leapfrog the point. The talk here was largely as to why he'd contribute, similarly to the talk about Samuel now. I know, I did the opposite and took a trash for it. The overhype re: our signings is an annual occurrence. Otherwise, thanks for letting me know what I think, but unfortunately that wouldn't be correct. 😏 You make a good point about it however, but that's a more advanced and more complex discussion.

Either that or it's a takeaway. May no longer be available. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Whatever's going on, there are plenty of PO'd current STHs. There are now groups on facebook and it's rare to read something positive from them about this entire situation. Here people are complaining too, reasonably so. The Stadium has essentially been turned over to be owned and more importantly run by an out-of-state company that has no empathy for WNY Bills fans and current STHs. They're going to do whatever they need to do in order to sell STs and they obviously don't care about seniority. Who knows who's going to ultimately buy the PSLs/STs, but in one of the forums it was posed that going to the road games may be less expensive than going to home games, the thought of which is disheartening.

No, two IMOs, one has a chance to, a likely will, and an assumption that we'll draft a viable WR capable of doing what you suggest. There's quite a bit of room for things not falling the way that you say. Again, much of the talk about Harty last season was the same as that for Samuel now. Doesn't matter the kick out the door talk now. Unlike known disappointments like Harty whom everyone was talking up at this time last year, or the perennially underachieving Samuel I suppose.

A lot of IFs and suppositions in there. All kinds of things can happen. Last year at this time the same exact things were being said about Harty & Sherfield. We'll have to wait and see how it shakes out. Oh, thanks for clearing that up. 😎

Yeah, that's the hope. We'll see. Diggs had 8 TDs, Davis had 7 TDs, and no other WR or TE on the team had more than 2. Cook had 4. If it's true that Diggs' is "slowing down" or however people want to put it, then we may not even be able to count on TD production from him either. He certainly hasn't shown up in that regard for most of our playoff games that he's been in already. Our TEs haven't changed, so that remains stable. It'd be nice to have a proven TD producer in our WR corps. Besides Diggs we do not have that. As of now, the only WRs on the team that have caught much of anything for us from Allen are Diggs and Shakir. Shorter will hopefully be good. He's a wild-card of sorts. It's our "Complimentary Football" aspect that concerns me in that regard. That and why Diggs was operating from the slot under Brady far more than he did to date on our team otherwise, which IMO is a big reason for his "decline." But what do I know. LOL

You and @hondo in seattle made the appropriate points. The other thing that cannot be overstated is the loss of chemistry on D with Poyer & Hyde both gone. That's some serious experience and on-field leadership that's now gone.

LOL, funny, no one said that Hasty was trash last season. I do recall making a similar argument regarding Hasty, and was slammed similarly about this time last year. Look, Samuel may end up with 1,200 yards and a dozen TDs, who knows. But there's nothing historically to suggest that merely switching QBs for a WR of his caliber is going to propel him statistically the way that people seem to believe will happen. Let's be real about Samuel. He's a WR that in seven seasons has amassed 3,383 yards on 10.7 yards-per-catch and 22 TDs. Sure, he has greater potential, but likely not as the #2 that everyone wants.

Well, considering that I'm not the one, among many, arguing that simply because a WR comes here that his numbers (aka TDs) will increase to the point of replacing a WR that averaged 7 TDs/season on an average of 5 targets/game, my answer would be that it depends upon the WR. Which gets us back to the initial points of the discussion, at least insofar as I brought up. Thinking that a WR that's averaged about 500 yards and 3 TDs/season without any particular propensity for the end zone, is all of a sudden out of the blue going to do much more than provide #3 WR production here is not an argument that I'm making. If people want to argue contrarily, great. I guess that's why we're here. We'll see how it plays out, but most WRs that have come here have not done that, namely significantly increased their production. Naming only one that has significantly, and another that has, only marginally despite the lack of competition for his role in the #1 spot, doesn't seem like a strong argument. Hence my comments stating given the present situation. Once again, let's hope that we draft a WR in round 1.

We'll see what this season brings. Hopefully Samuel will be the 1,000 yard 8 TD WR that people seem to believe he will be. BTW, I certainly wouldn't have wagered against 15 rushing TDs either. Cook isn't a goal-line RB and doesn't even carry the ball on 3rd-downs. Great! We can all look forward to Samuel being the difference this season then. Looking forward to it.

If you want to join in, I'd highly suggest reading what I wrote to start this first.

I found it difficult to believe that he was below 30 this season. I'd have wagered a grand prior to the season on 30+. As a team, our offensive scoring was slightly less under Brady. Under Brady, our offensive scoring would have been good for 8th in the league on average using his 7 games in the regular season. That's underachievement. Over the last three games of the season we averaged fewer than 20 ppg. Much as with Dorsey over the first four games of the season, we came out swinging, sort of, against the Jets, Eagles, and Cowboys, Now our biggest scoring WR is gone, we still have no #2 of the caliber that everyone's claiming we need. Diggs, apparently, is in decline. Why, at this point and things unchanged, would our scoring be better than it was last season? Who knows, maybe we'll be #1 in scoring this season. Right now things don't seem to be aligning in that way however. OK, then why haven't any of the other WRs that we've picked up since Allen's been here improved as such? Seriously, why not?

You nailed them. Beasley, he's the only one with a pronounced increase however. Brown, not so much although it's debatable. Improved, yes, but to suggest that it was significant in his case may be a bit of a reach. His two best seasons, one here ('19), one in Arizona ('15), were all but carbon copies of one another. In AZ he posted 1,003 yards and 7 TDS, here he had 1,060 yards and 6 TDs. On a per start basis, here vs. elsewhere, he averaged marginally more, but not significantly more. If we applied the same percentage increase to Samuel, Samuel would go from being about a 500 yard & 3 TD WR to a 700 yard and 4 TD WR. Not much more. We'll need more than that from somewhere. Otherwise, and thanks for answering, but if those are the only two examples, that's pretty much the point. Consider all of the other WRs that we've picked up that have done nothing, or even worse than they've done elsewhere. It's hardly a guarantee either. Everyone's saying the exact same things about Samuel that they said about Harty last year. It's typical. Is that the point that I've been making?

Well, if Diggs is really finished like everyone here assumes, we'd better have an answer better than Samuel or yes, that's exactly where we're headed. Allen was down about 20% as it was this season from prior years. Hopefully we draft a WR in round 1. Also, I'm not on the train claiming that Diggs is finished. IMO it's how he's used. In fact, someone posted a piece recently, forget where, it may have been linked on the front page, that Diggs was used in slot nearly 50% of the time. If that's true, and there's no reason to consider the guy's research false, then that would certainly explain the dropoff in production from Diggs. Complimentary Football as McD likes to call it. We can expect Kincaid to pick up some of the slack though, but he's not a WR.

Oh, I forgot to include other facts. Davis has logged a TD for every 11 targets. Samuel every 22 targets. Someone's going to have to step up No weight at all for 8 weeks is not common. Particularly for someone with an athletic/fit build. But that's fine, well see either way. Presumably your implication is that he'll easily be back at 100%. If we've learned anything as football fans over the years, isn't one of those things along these lines. Look at Tre. Who among us thought that he would suck as bad as he has. He was tops in the league.

Davis' drops were bad for one season. Discounting that singular season, that everyone made a mountain of a narrative over, do you know what Samuel's drop % is compared to Davis'? Davis' drops other than in '22 are quite average in terms of drop %. You may want to look that up before making comments like that. Otherwise, once again, the comment misses the mark and still does not address the issue. You'll see, again, this season quite likely, ... unless Samuel becomes a scoring machine. Hope he does, but I wouldn't put money on it.

It can be added that for a QB whose only bowl game win was in the Alamo Bowl over a team with a siht defense, three seasons ago, he might want to keep his mouth closed, at least until he's actually drafted. I've never understood this level of hype in the guy. Reminds me of how the hype was for Young, Russell, and Newton. He's a lumberjack and he's OK ...

A reasonable guess would be that it's a meme created by a Bears fan.