PBF81

Or more likely getting him injured so that he's a fraction of the player he was after 18 months (if lucky if that were to occur) of rehab.

Well, we were outcoached by the Jets, twice, as they outplayed us but had inferior talent generally speaking. At QB it wasn't even close.

I don't think that Allen's going to be running the way he does in ten years, not even close. I'll give him five, six tops of that. Keep in mind too that because he has to do everything, he's a lot more likely to get injured. He suffered one this year, due more to crap OL play, but still, we're lucky, he's lucky, that it hasn't been a knee or shoulder.

Keep in mind that without our Allen-led offense, opposing offenses would have scored much more and logged more yards than they did due to our inability to stay on the field offensively.

Well, at this point it's pretty obvious that Frasier doesn't have what it takes to make it thru a string of playoff games while playing the kind of D that we play during the season. It's also pretty obvious that Allen can use better instruction. It's pretty obvious that there doesn't seem to be any kind of methodical approach on game days, more a "shoot from the hip" thing. It's also pretty obvious that Beane's 1st and 2nd rounders aren't amounting to the impact players that they should be. It's also pretty obvious that McDermott is more of a cheerleader than a tactician, ala the rest of the coaches in the playoffs at this point, and also isn't going to push them over the hump. Now with their own decision-making setting us back, for who knows how long, they continue on as if nothing happens. To support your statement. In a perfect world, Pegula should have told McD that if he doesn't at least get us back to the AFC CG today, that he's gone. McD should have gotten rid of Frasier after last season, for sure now. He didn't nor won't. At bare minimum, if they want to treat this like a business, unless they want to be JAB (business), changes need to be made at the top levels. People ask here, what we do if we're Beane? It's a loaded question, most of us here wouldn't be in this situation if we had been in charge over the past few years. Asking other people to clean up an unsolvable mess created by another isn't fair. If Pegula had any stones, he'd tell McBeane both, next year they'd better get to the AFC CG or start looking for new work. But we'll rely on the whole "well, it's better the 20 years of mediocrity" schtick until we enter the next 20 years of it. Could also be that McD read too many press clippings about him and the team and went into cruise-control. We'll never know. We do know that nothing's going to change tho, the things that we're lacking simply don't appear overnight and for no reasons.

All in all, the holes we have are due to the lack of effective drafting. That's the main point that we seem to agree on. You never know how players turn out over time.

Fair, but I wouldn't give Beane credit for simply identifying a known proven talent at his position. We were fortunate that Diggs was persona-non-grata in Minnesota. Minny used that pick for Jefferson, quite arguably better than Diggs. Also, we threw in a few other day-three picks. Good transaction, just saying that I don't use it to credit Beane for being able to draft well. Milano wasn't drafted under Beane. Also not sure that they brought Hyde on board while Beane was in charge. Did they? He too came in 2017, but as a FA.

One of the most important things is consistency. Take great players, the Bosa's, or the Watt's. They play hard and well almost all the time. Our best players in the F7, besides Milano who's taken a number of years to develop into that player, don't show up with any consistency. Somewhere hear or elsewhere I read that after Miller went out, our entire D regressed in a big way. Beane has drafted almost no consistent players. Milano wasn't one of Beane's draftees. Agreed, but that fuels my statements about the LB-ing corps even more. I threw him in there to eliminate people saying that we had three until he went out. We've had only two decent LBs the entire time that Beane's been here, if even two, as it's taken Milano what, five seasons to develop to where he is now. Again, the point being that we have only two LBs, and if Edmunds leaves, ... then what, rhetorically.

That's something else that we're really not talking about. The entire d rotates except for the LBs where we have zero depth, hell, we don't even have three reliable starters at LB. But players like Oliver should be expected to take at least 80% of the snaps. Oliver had 50% and Rousseau had 44%. Both 1st rounders. That's ridiculous.

Just trying to find his role. He seems to struggle doing everything. He's like Oliver, shows up for some games, in others you never hear his name called. I wasn't trying to suggest that he'd be the next Von Miller, but the reason why we're discussing this is because Beane can't draft. Again, the reason why we had so many 2 LB sets is because we simply didn't have another LB capable of starting after Miller went down, not surprisingly at 33 and with recent injury issues prior to coming here. I'm not bullish on Edmunds, he's an average to above-average LB and an inconsistent one at that. He posts great games sometimes, and stinkers at others. They didn't pick up his 5th year for a reason. We traded up to get him. Not a great decision. He did improve this season, but it's also a contract year, so who knows whether that improvement will stick.

Not trying to get into a tiff here, but Lloyd did nothing statistically, I didn't look at PFF, I looked at his stats. 15 starts at LB, 0 sacks, 0 TFL, 2 QB Hits. IDK, maybe he's Milano light for Milano's first four years, pass defense only. That's not the point. Dean is five times the overall LB that Lloyd is. From appearances it looks as if Lloyd is a pass-defending LB like Milano. Not sure that's really what we need and what's going to improve the D. We sorely lack run-stopping and overall well-rounded LBs. I'm not trying to lock horns with you here. But Dean played behind Edwards, one of the best MLBs in the league. He, Edwards, contributes heavily to Philly's D. Either way, I'd have taken Fortner over Cook any day because we needed, and still do, OL. Cook was a luxury pick that we both reached for and couldn't afford. He has shown no particular ability to be the full-time ball carrier in college and did we really need another receiving option short, that Allen often ignores. No. HIs catch% is unimpressive otherwise. Poor use of a draft pick.

Are you joking? Lloyd I didn't know anything about until I just looked him up, but he started all season and provided even less for Jax than most of Beane's rookies do. Nakobe Dean was a monster at UGA. He's going to be an incredible starter for years at MLB once he gets in there.

We should have drafted Nakobe Dean in round 2 instead of Cook. The only reason why he's not starting in Philly is because TJ Edwards is ahead of him on the depth chart. He would have started in the middle here giving flexibility with Edmunds. It would have given us three solid starting LBs after Miller went down. That's the risk when you shoot-the-moon on a 33-year old LB. We didn't realize the benefit, we absorbed the risks with Von Miller's signing. I for one would enjoy seeing what Edmunds could do on the edge regularly.

Somehow I don't view this as being among the top-10 things that concern us going into next season.

At some point you have to draft well. Otherwise, we need a C, OT, G (at least), a RB that's capable of handling a full time load, a WR that doesn't rank among the top-100 in dropped passes to compliment Diggs. (Davis ranks 7th among WRs, McKenzie 8th in Drop %) FWIW, Singletary ranks 5th in the league and 3rd among RBs in Drop %. Those WRs ranking worse than Davis/McK are Romeo Doubs, Jauan Jennings, Zay Jones, Rondale Moore, and Darius Slayton. Not exacly an all-star list. Those two rank in the top-20 for Drop % and with Knox we have three in the top-40. To Knox's and Singletary's credit, along with Diggs and Beasley, their Catch% is high, good! Cook was supposed to excel as a receiving RB but he's average there.

I have a personal moratorium on critizing Allen. Sure, he fumbles, he throws unnecessary INTs, but he also shoulders the load for this entire team, coaching, the entire offense, leadership. For every bad play there are 4 or 5 spectacular ones. If he's not on the team we win may one division game and 4-6 games total, making that "last 20 years" look like a championship run. That's how poorly Beane has done. As to "good guys," you hit on something. McD is a players coach, just like Levy was. If we had Parcells, Johnson, or Gibbs back then, with our collection of talent, which Polian said was special, we'd have won one or more SBs. As long as we have a players coach, and not a tactician and a coach that knows how to do his part to win on Sundays besides simply standing there clapping and handing out "attaboys," we're in the same boat. ... except that this team can't even find its way to a Super Bowl. Here's my thing, the owners, coaches, and players all treat it like a business. At the end of the day they even tell us, it's business first. So why is it that for fans we're supposed to "have understanding" as if we've all been given free tix and merchandise and should merely be grateful for being able to attend or watch. Beane's and McD's complete lack of action following this season, and I would even have argued after last season, is a slap in the face to the business side of the fan experience. Many HCs would have fired their DC who seems to go on a mental vacation as soon as the regular season ends, and stated as much (i.e. 'we need someone that can get us to that next level' or whatever drivel they want), but here in Buffalo they fire the position guy that had his two starters out, one all season, the other for much of it and injured the rest of the time and playing more inspired football than most of the other players on the team. Yeah, that makes sense and isn't an insult to fans. It'll sure send a message to the rest of the coaching staff to get us to that next level. SMH "Good guys" is right. Since we want to run a boys club fraternity instead of a football team, OK, but we're never going to be competitive, particularly now going forward with the huge contracts, the swing-and-a-miss of Miller's I won't even go into now. I also won't mention Beane who should be on his knees every night before a statue of Allen on his mantlepiece thanking God that at least Allen worked out. LMAO, can you imagine our offense without Allen? I have an impossible time not thinking it wouldn't rank DFL. So good guys, ... yup! So I guess it's a business, .... until it's no longer a business.

Losing, not shutting down a good offense, being beaten is one thing. Playing loose sloppy football, marked by "WTF" coaching, entirely unable to generate ANY kind of pass-rush whatsoever, leaving opposing WRs so wide open that it's not even known who blew the assignment, not to mention the typical play-calling issues that are routine with this team, are two entirely different things.

They didn't play to their best ability, and the primary, by a country mile, reason for them not doing so, was coaching. So what's their "solution" for the future? I guess that firing the distant coach that had the greatest number of injuries in his unit, and his two starters, of two, was that solution. I guess if they had fired one of the assistants to the assistant regional manager would have been too obvious. I mean really, a show of hands as to who thinks that this one firing will change anything whatsoever? I doubt that even one hand goes up. Talk about denial and a lack of willingness to do their jobs, ... McBeane.

Several thoughts here ... First, this is somewhat insulting to the average Joe/Josephine that has to get up everyday and slog to work just to put food on the table or pay the rent/mortgage. If they run out of gas, too bad, they have to do it anyway. Maybe they have two jobs, single parent, etc. Often very hard work or in the cold or dangerous as well. etc. Secondly, these guys get off paid way too much to not show up like they did, regardless of circumstances. If it's that bad, at least tell the fans so that we get the memo too, as part of the equation. Maybe instead of sitting in the cold trying to cheer our brains out for a car in a race that's on blocks, we'd have preferred to do something else with OUR time & resources. Ticket prices are exorbitant this season for our region. I don't see any coordinated effort by the players with bigger contacts to pool together to offer refunds. Pegula's sure as hell not going to, nor the NFL. Lastly, this STILL doesn't explain the idiotic play-calling. A good coach should be able to sleepwalk through a game plan. Putting your zombied players in the best alignments to succeed is better than putting them in the worst, all but guaranteeing failure. This is arguably the biggest problem here. I'm sure that this wouldn't have been the first time that an exhausted team went out, did their jobs, and won. It was 17 points, not 30-some. The owners, coaches, and players treat it like a business, but for some reason we as fans aren't allowed to treat it the same. This whole thing would be fine if admission were free, but it isn't, to the contrary in fact, admission is more expensive than it's ever been. Our fans have been incredibly sympathetic to all of the things going on, including some providing transportation during the blizzard s, etc. Sympathy& understanding can be communicated freely via cards, e-mails, donations, etc. But for fans to pay what we've had to pay this season for the slop, LED BY NON-PHYSICAL c coaching, that we saw last Sunday doesn't cut the Weber's.

Well, I'd say this, that at the end of the day they're not cutting it.

Our DL vs. the Bengals featured 3 former 1st rounders and 2 former 2nd rounders, 2 and 2 if we only count the ones on Beane's watch. It's quite possible that he doesn't know what he's doing. LOL, like I joked, nothing really changes until we fire one of the Quality Control Assistant coaches. Again, loyalty is good, but when it supersedes the business/performance aspect of the enterprise, ...

A Titans friend of mine came over for the Bills/Cinci game and he didn't know that Saffold was on the Bills, he started laughing once he saw Saffold and started making fun of him. He had nothing good to say about his time in Tennessee. Morse and Dawkins are the only relatively consistent OL-men that we have. The rest are mediocre and below-average. But this is what happens when you stock your OL talent from the budget bargain bin in free agency with 1-2 year signees. 31 is old for a C and given Morse's 6 concussions, I'd make plans for the future there. Both are only signed for two more seasons as it is. Rookie OL-men rarely come in and play to above-average levels. And what if either goes down due to injury? Morse already missed a few games and he was injury prone before he came here, now he's entering his back-9, with 6 concussions. I mean looking at it from his point of view, Jr. Seau comes to mind. To your point, when you have Allen, the entire approach, or non-approach we could say, to "building" the OL is weird and illogical.

Agreed. The concern should be Allen getting injured. I mean how long can he play with a below-average OL, taking the hits he takes, unnecessarily because McBeane won't protect him properly. We've been fortunate to this point. If that happens, there's zero chance of much of anything besides finishing in the basement of the East for who knows, what, another 20 years. They broke the mold on Allen, we'd be lucky to get another great pocket passer, and a pocket passer would not fare well behind our O-Line w/o any semblance of a reliable running game. I mean seriously, who sees us as anything but a 5-12 (or so) team if Allen's not the QB. Subtracting the one-possession games alone that we won would have put us at 7-9 this season and behind the Jets who would have been 8-9. Allen is unique, I feel bad for him as he has to unreasonably shoulder just about everything associated with this team, and has to overcome poor coaching, poor game-planning, poor protection, the lack of even an average running game apart from himself, poor defense at times, etc. Without Allen, our rushing game ranks 2nd-to-Last in both yards and rushing TDs. I don't see any QB, including Allen, having much more than a brief career having to play like that every season as he's had to do. I don't see how it's possible that he plays like that after years of getting hammered once he exits his prime, which is what, a few short years from now and shortly after the new stadium is built, ... if they ever get off their duffs and get it going. Underlying your point seems to be the notion that McBeane are content to get all that they can out of Allen without much regard to his future beyond his prime years.

I think he's a free agent. Either way, an even bigger step would be for Beane to quit trying to stock our OL from the league's budget bargain bin in free-agency. Would love to see a C and an OT in rounds 1 & 2. Honestly, if he drafts another DE/DL or DB ... Morse isn't long for the game with 6 concussions and being a Center now in his back-9. He's currently the glue that holds the line together. He was injury prone before he got here, he missed a few this season. It would be unwise to count on him at this point. Would love to see them make a move for Patterson, even if it's a slight reach. He could play G until Morse can't play C anymore.

Nothing's gonna change until they fire the Quality Control Assistant! And we want to know what's wrong with Beane and McD, and relatedly, why we won't win a championship under them. Look no further. Loyalty is one thing, loyalty when people are failing is failure to do one's job yourself.