PBF81

This prompted a thought as well about creating your own luck. I remember going into that last SB we were in vs. Dallas up 13-6. Obviously they came out and shellacked us 24-0 in the 2nd half. That was partially us generating our own [bad] luck with them creating their own [good] luck. After the half the Cowboys came running out of the tunnel, helmets on, fist-pumping. Our guys came out walking, helmets in hand many of them, led by Bruce who had his helmet in his hand, walking, looking down at the grass as if he was walking out to his car rather than walking out to the bench to finish the game. They asked the reporters covering the lockerrooms at the half what each coach did/said. They said that Jimmy Johnson was swearing up an experts-only expletive filled tirade and throwing chairs. Levy was apparently reading Hemmingway quotes to our players. Of the two teams, which one created positive luck and positive energy going back out onto the field. The answer is obvious, but coaching feeds into that as well. Our current coach is much like Levy in that manner, he doesn't have what it takes to compete with his peers at that level to create the kind of [luck] required to overcome his shortcomings. The same can be said for the offseason/firings. Preach accountability, but when things fail, take no action, essentially sending the message that none of it is actually your fault or the fault of those that you hired. That stuff gets noticed, by media, fans, and players alike whether they mention it or not.

Completely agree. Having the #2 ranked defense, #1 last season, then going into the playoffs as if you had the 30th-ranked defense is hardly a lack of luck, ... to your point. Not squibbing a kickoff with 13-seconds left, then not at all covering two of the most prolific players in the game today, AT ALL, is hardly a lack of luck, it more falls into the negligence, incompetence, (or idiocy, pick one's poison) category. THAT is called creating your own [bad] luck. What is luck is making the playoffs because another team not competing for the playoffs beat another team that was competing to make the playoffs, hit a 4th-and-12 for a 49-yard TD, which then paved the way for a coach being overrated. On the drafting side, we could also mention that instead of Oliver we could have had Montez Sweat or any number of other players that have performed to premier levels. Beane's day 1 & 2 drafting has hardly created luck for us.

We've had our share of breaks too. Making the playoffs in McD's first season was among them. We got in having absolutely nothing to do with our play and on the unlikeliest play of the season. We got some breaks in the "13-Seconds" game too. But when your own coaching overcomes those breaks to lose you games ... As they say, sometimes you make your own luck too. Good or bad. We seem to be masters at creating our own ***** luck. They didn't look particularly prepared in that Miami playoff game either.

Been wondering that myself, there's no way that they make that traffic situation palatable. That's gotta impact (remove) 20% or so of the total normal parking availability, possibly more. Good question, but given that the 50 YL Flag is smack in the middle of Lot 4, and given that the current stadium takes up the footprint of approximately Lot 4, I'd say that Lot 4 will be entirely unavailable. I would imagine that they can "tidy up" on Fridays before gamedays and consolidate all of the equipment in an area, but still ...

I wouldn't pay a PSL on plain principle, I don't care what the ticket is for. As it is I haven't had seasons in years and I've already transitioned to secondary market as an out-of-stater now 7-8 hours away. There's something to be said for simply overpaying for the one or two games that you really want to go to, and keep flexible in case your schedule changes for some unforeseeable reason. The proposed new prices though are higher than what the secondary market was pricing them at this past season though. As someone pointed out, that's with Allen. What happens when Allen's no longer around. People still going to pay that, particularly if we enter another "Last 20 Years" phase. Indeed. They also have a population base about 20 times what Erie County's is, split between two NFL teams, nevertheless.

Wow, that's pretty sad. Interesting that you mention groups too, while living several states south of NYS, I also organized a group of 30 to go up and see them. And to your point, there are Bills Backers groups throughout the country because the Bills diaspora has been so great because of everyone leaving NYS. You'd think that it would be a factor given that so many travel back for the games so regularly. I've read about fans on here that buy some really damn expensive seats that fly i for most if not all games. While I can't do that it's impressive and not uncommon for Bills fans. The diminishing level of support is unfortunate. It's probably because they're so popular now because of Allen, but I'm under no delusions that whenever he's done playing, whether it's in a few years due to wear-n-tear, or 10 more years, that we'll ever have a top QB again. Could happen, but it doubtfully would be Allen caliber and we all know how long it took us to go from Kelly to Allen.

We couldn't beat Cinci either, nor Miami with a 3rd-string QB. This is more than us simply beating KC during the playoffs. Good luck to us under our current circumstances.

Yeah, great point, and he's a nice guy, but I wouldn't be heartbroken if he never showed up in Buffalo again. He took us for a grand ride.

Yeah, unfortunately tucked away in the background is the battle between The Bills/Buffalo and the NFL. Then of course no one truly knows the motives of the owners. Not to start any argument over the Pegulas over what kind of owners that they are, but on one hand they (Terry) say that they'll do anything to keep the team in Buffalo, and OTOH they (Kim) says openly that they don't have money for a stadium because they have a lifestyle to maintain, then in the midst of stadium negotiations they buy a brand new yacht for nearly $100M with annual operating costs averaging more than the Community Bargaining Agreement was. So which is it. Then we have the NFL which if it had its way would price the majority of current Bills STHs out buying them, and their hoity toity standards for stadiums. So do Kim & Terry differ on it? Are they being pulled by the NFL, or are they aligned with the League? Then of course there's the fan base, many of us that attended the "90's era games" are older now and don't particularly want to sit in the cold weather every time, been there done that. But being all warm, cozy, with lots of amenities comes with a price, a dome an even bigger price. It can't be easy trying to navigate the whole thing, they'll never make everyone happy, not even close, but IMO the key is to not price people out of going and that's a significant issue in Buffalo. While we may be the second-smallest market in the league from a population perspective, we are easily the smallest in the league from a business/financial aspect. So we'll never be like those stadiums that you mention, unfortunately. As for me, I just buy tix to the game(s) I want to go to now. Sure, they cost more on the secondary market, but there's also no risk and I enjoy sitting in different places. For the Miami regular season game, 30 YL lower bowl, it was great. Last game I went to prior to that up in the club level. And LOL, it was in the high 30s temp wise, but they had the heaters on and we were roasting, we were in T-shirts and perfectly comfy. I only bought those tix because someone we were connected to was selling them at face value, otherwise we wouldn't have minded being out in the elements for that one. Anyway, my point was that there are obviously lot dynamics involved, the least of which is not the economic status of the region.

What's puzzling to me is that so many Bills fans are from out of state. I maintained a dozen seasons "back in the day" and either used 'em or sold 'em to Bills fans.

Yeah, as I recall, that seemed to have been the consenus among posters here as well as elsewhere, ... generally speaking. I know that some fans fly in from the west coast, Florida, etc. and have seasons, but that's nowhere near a majority of the fan base. Eh, we'll see what happens I guess. As you suggest, I wouldn't pay that on principle, I'd rather take the family on a killer one-week vacation and still have thousands left over for watching the games at my convenience with fine food and drink catered to my chair side. LOL

I found the BN piece with the details, it was linked thru a ProFootballTalk article. Here are the details in it, stripped from the text of the article that is: Maybe that'll work, but it seems like a lot for Buffalo.

They more or less did with that "survey" that they put out. It was reported that they did not get a great response. You can google the survey, but I just did, and one excerpt about the least expensive seat was this ... There was one article that had all the proposed prices for every section along with the PSLs, I couldn't find it. I should have saved it. That seems to be about what I recall, but if that's the "cheap seats," I think that they're going to lose a lot of "cheap seat" STHs. At 8 home games that's $124, at 9 home games that's $110, ... for the upper deck corners. IIRC the PSLs for the best seats approached $10k, south of that but close to it, again, the PSL alone. I know that for some people here that's chump change, but are people going to pay that if Allen's no longer the QB and we suck again. It'd be highly unlikely on us hitting another "Allen" when he's finished. The upper deck center seats for sure were well over $200 apiece not including the PSLs. I do know that they were not getting that much, generally speaking, on the secondary market this season. I was watching, that's how I got mine. IDK, just seems like a lot to me.

They will be with the new stadium. As their survey showed, somewhere in the neighborhood of twice as much, some a little more than twice, ... as last season that is. Resale values weren't twice face values this past season. That's with Josh here. Will that demand still be there when he's no longer our QB. (rhetorical question) They're supposed to break ground no later than April 1st, which is about 6 weeks from now. If not presumably that pushes the date for the new stadium opening back a season since the date was already pushed back once. At this point Allen will be 30 or 31 once it opens. But tickets weren't typically selling for twice-plus face-value this past season. The survey that they put out with the proposed ticket prices were at least twice existing prices, plus PSLs. Point being, will STHs be able to get what they paid for them on the secondary market? If this past season was a guide, and I don't think that the Super Bowl hype will ever be as great as it was this past season, then in every likelihood no.

Well, Kim did say that they can't afford a new stadium because they had a lifestyle to maintain. I took her at her word.

Let's not confuse our coaching with mock drafts.

Actually, no one's bitching about 13-win seasons, we're bitching about getting our asses handed to us in the playoffs and having our #1 (or #2 whatever) ranked defense play like it was the 30th-ranked defense, and a team overall that appears to have almost no direction from the sidelines once the most important games start. Frankly, it may not matter what Josh (and Dorsey) do, because when we regularly give up 30-some points per-game in the playoffs, it renders it ridiculously unlikely that we'd win 3 (possibly 4) straight playoff games to find our way to a championship. Then of course there are two sets of fans seemingly, those perfectly satisfied with 13-win seasons and entertaining football throughout the season, accompanied by an early departure from the playoffs; and those that have been there, done that, and will only be satisfied with a Super Bowl win and NFL Championship.

That is the quintessential question, although I would argue that Allen changed the culture. Cart/Horse thing. McD would be history by now w/o Allen. Remember, he "saw something in Peterman." Well, belief is one thing, reality often quite another. That's what it boils down to, who believes that he can and conversely, who believes that he cannot. Are they doing the best around Allen? If not, why not? Have they learned? Are they actually correcting their issues & errors, both McD and Beane alike. I'm not seeing it. Apparently you are. Hence the question.

... and BTW, just as with Levy, if we had had Johnson or Parcells as our coach instead of Levy, yes, I think we'd have at least 2 Championships under our belt now. Same for McD. If Reid were the coach of this team, or Zac Taylor, I think we'd have won one by now as well. Same for several other coaches of offensive miind. Using that argument to suggest that all that McD needs is 15 more years and he too can win a SB is ridiculous. Particularly since Reid didn't have Mahomes or Allen back then. If he had, yeah, I'm sure he'd have won one back then. He made the playoffs regularly, usually winning the division back then, with three QBs none of which was better than above-average. He was in one SB and lost by 3 points. Yeah, I think that had he had an Allen or Mahomes back then, that yes, he'd have won that one and likely another or two. Reid was still a good coach back then and didn't make the blundering tactical errors that McD makes. "The Process" has run its course.

Well, OK, I think you're only looking at part of the picture. How many games have we won that we otherwise would have lost had we had any number of the QBs we've had prior to Allen. How about Peterman? Do you think that we'd have even posted a winning record with him, McD's endorsement? Does that make any kind of impact regarding your respect for McD? Just sayin'. How about Tyrod Taylor? Fitzpatrick? Manuel? Orton? Bledsoe? etc. I don't think we'd even have won a division title with them under McD. Besides, we have Allen, Reid has Mahomes. Are you saying that we're forever incapable of beating Reid/Mahomes with McD/Allen then? Sure seems like it. And if so, then what are we waiting for. And we're not getting rid of Allen.

Hiring the right one is also key. But today, clearly having a defensive mind as a head coach, isn't the way to go. That should be obvious, especially for us. I've always been a fan of firing a non-performing coach when a good one becomes available. I wouldn't even have a problem with negotiating with one before firing the other, after all, it's a business, right. What I've objected to in the past, for us namely, is missing out on some good hires over the years, until public/media sentiment forced a firing, then not having any good options that offseason, then "hiring the best one available," who also isn't good and possibly no better than the one that you got rid of. Nothing wrong with replacing something with something that's better. And changes have to be made when things aren't working out. In our case, we're lucky to have Allen, and we're lucky too that he hasn't suffered a major injury given the hodgepodge manner in which we've constructed our OL. He's 27 next season tho, he'll be 32 in six seasons. That's not very long with him in his prime, and he's not going to be playing his style in his back-9. Wasting it on a coach that simply doesn't understand how to get them over that hump, which is our expectation as fans, has its risks. It's one thing to have a coach that seems to be capable of learning, but the things that we're seeing from McD indicate that he's topped out on the learning. Some learn at faster rates than others. His cheer-leading approach only nets a team so much. We'll see, none of us can do anything about this but gripe, but I have a suspicion that we're not even going to win the division next season. If that happens the heat will increase exponentially. The big question is who has power/control over whom, McD over Beane (untypical) or Beane over McD, who hired him. Could get very interesting. Perhaps Pegula ends up having enough and gets rid of both of 'em, although I don't see that happening.

If we got so much from McD. ... or Beane for that matter. Those guys quietly hide behind carefully crafted statements, preach "character," but then don't practice accountability, which is a huge component of character. They may think that everyone's too stupid to see that, but most people see it quite clearly. Well taken, but Josh isn't what's holding this team up, to the contrary. If you want to live by the big play potential of your own QB, then be prepared to die by it too. Where would McD be, and by inference Beane, if Allen were not our QB? We wouldn't even have won the division to date ant that "Last 20 Years" would be "The Last 25 Years ... and counting." We have a fan base starving for a Super Bowl win, a Championship. If we put up a poll as to who of us will be content to simply "making the playoffs" during McBeane's tenure, w/o ever sniffing a Championship, I'm guessing that the results stating that they'd be satisfied with that would be incredibly low, if not zero outright.

Yesterday? Ya think?

LMAO Yeah, except with one MAJOR exception! ALLEN!!! Reid had Pederson, McNabb, and Vick. What's next, you going to explain to us all that those QBs were just as good as Allen now too? Put Allen on those teams, do you think it would have changed the perceptions of him? And still, he regularly had his Eagles in the playoffs, usually winning his division, with incredible division competition in some of those years, unlike McD, in 9 of those 14 seasons. You can't have it both ways, that Allen's so great, but other teams that don't have an Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, etc., have no excuses. Yet, that's your position.

A couple thoughts, Beane wasn't here for that first of the first three drafts (2017). After that, I'd disagree with you on 2019, Day 1 was not good at all. But I understand that there's a huge degree of subjectivity in the Drafts, I think that how people evaluate those often comes down to experience. But let's be real, at the end of the day the single draft pick that stands out among all others, entirely indisputably, is Allen. I will say this, over the "Last 20 Years" we've had a litany of coaches and GMs. Fans argued in defense saying similar things about Whaley and Donahoe, and about Levy, Nix, and Brandon to a lesser extent. But they didn't last long, but put Allen on their teams, and the same conversations would arise. I even think that Gailey would have done better than McD with Allen. Perhaps Williams too, he had Van Pelt and Bledsoe, the latter one of the worst playoff QBs in NFL history. Same for coaching. I don't see our team having been any different during that "Last 20 Years" than it is now, other than having NE challenging for the division every season, if Williams, Gailey, possibly even Ryan or Jauron had had Allen. None of those coaches would navigate us through the playoffs to win it all, but with Allen they'd likely have made the playoffs, thereby relegating that "Last 20 Years" to nonexistence. I don't see much of a difference now, besides Allen. Here's the thing, some people see that McD's missing something, something critical. It's obvious in several ways. First, on gamedays he runs up and down the sideline clapping like one of those chime monkeys, what, apparently thinking that if in good participation-ribbon style everyone's a winner and "they'll do better next time" during games when we're clearly not cutting the Webers. This is particularly noticeable in the playoffs. He preaches character and accountability, the latter which is a trait of the first, but we can write the summaries for all of his future post-game pressers right now; ... 'We need to do better. This falls on me, I'm ultimately responsible. We'll look at the tape and see what we can change. [blah blah blah]" Here's the problem with that, nothing ever changes. Nothing. And if we're going to be honest here, his biggest failures are hardly of the "yeah, we should have gone for it on 4th ..." type things, they're incredibly egregious breakdowns in tactics and strategy that even well-seasoned fans know better than to do or not do. But again, nothing changes. Accountability? So we fire the Safeties Coach? The position coach that had one of his two starters out all season, the other injured most of it, with questionable backups, and whose unit still outperformed most of the other units on the team? THAT'S accountability? This doesn't go unnoticed, by fans, media, etc. In fact, it goes very very noticed. And just like Brady won Belichick 4-6 extra games every season, so too Allen clearly is the reason for most of our wins. But let's do a simple exercise, let's suppose that Allen is only responsible for a mere 4 wins/season. That's it, just 4, when we all know it's much higher. Here would be McD's record without Allen, and I'll only include the last three seasons because Allen was developing in his first tow, in fairness; 9-7, 7-9, 9-6 Suppose he had those records. Would the support for him be the same? For Beane? Obviously not. We wouldn't have even won the division, much less done anything in the playoffs, with that. Some people see that, others do not. That's the foibles of a fan community where anyone can opine and say their piece. OTOH, does it really matter, ... what you and I disagree on? Not really. OBD isn't reading these threads figuring out what to do. LOL So it's fun to bicker and argue about, but "let's not bicker and argue over who killed who." (Presumably you get the reference) LOL Stay at piece my friend!!