PBF81

Mahomes wouldn't have the degree of success here that he's had in KC. JMHO

I guess, but I think you're reaching three. LOL IMO tho 13-seconds was far worse because it essentially handed the game to KC on known premises throughout the game, whereas that lateral, as stupid as it was, obviously wasn't the called play. I'm not sure that it was supposed to have happened under those circumstances as they evolved. Did Belichick ever state that it was the actual called play? Point being at least they tried, it was poorly executed and more on the players, particularly the one that made that idiotic lateral. "13 Seconds" was a complete vacating of any chance for hope whatsoever didn't even put the players in a position to have it work. It was doomed other than for poor passing by Mahomes and it was fully planned. I think I'd rather wager on getting hit by lightning. That lateral wasn't planned. Besides, if McD leads us to two or three SBs and then does that in his 20-something-th season, I won't say a word. LOL Also, Jones was in the midst of a horrible game, on the road in LV, and Belichick was probably thinking that he had no chance in OT, and frankly, he probably didn't, whereas we had outplayed KC in that game otherwise. It was also the very last play in the game and I doubt he envisioned a perfect lateral by his own player to an oppponent that was in the absolutely perfect position to score a TD for the Raiders. I'm sure he figured, "WTF, this is headed for OT, so let's give it a shot" kinda thing. I can't compare that to "13 Seconds." Jones didn't even appear to be ready for a lateral. Point noted however. I will say, that that wasn't under Brady tho, and as I'd mentioned, Belichick sucks and isn't even a winning coach w/o Brady. As to McD, I see an average 6-win team the last three seasons without Allen. I said that they wouldn't win more than 8 as a ceiling, I said 6-8, and that's with the relatively easy schedules we've had that I took into consideration. Belichick is still on the bubble for playoffs, which is maddening, but he still sucks w/o Brady. I'm forcing myself to reserve judgment for another season or two. He at least has seen to it to put a decent OL on the field, and anytime you have that you have a shot at a 10-win season if your D is average. It's not difficult, for any team, to win 5/6 games. Very few teams win less. Last season only four teams won fewer than 5 games. In '21 only 5 teams. It's difficult to do, but either way, our average during our "drought" was 6.6 IIRC.

Yeah, I remember that lateral, that was post-Brady tho, right? That was also a desperation move, wasn't it? All players and coaches make mistakes, the question is how many rise to the level of "13 Seconds." And our defensive alignments as in the Cincy game are mindboggling. Belichick has sucked as a coach when he hasn't had Brady lending credence to my points similarly about McD and indirectly about Beane. Only two playoff appearances in what, 10 other seasons, only one playoff win, ironically against the Bledsoe led Pats. LOL Also, likewise, thanks!!

True, and I don't think that if Mahomes had the Patriots' wide receivers, as an example, that he'd be nearly as good. Also, as we know, QBs always take more heat and get more credit than they're responsible for, generally speaking. But I'm not sure that too many other fans are jealous of our OL. Brady also had coaches noted for their competence and top-notch OLs. Can you think of anything akin to "13 Seconds" or those ridiculous defensive alignments etc. that Belichick or his other coaches were responsible for? I can't think of a single major SNAFU that readily comes to mind throughout his entire career. We have numerous ones in six short seasons. Brady exceled in realizing that it was the high-percentage passes that were key and focused on them, realizing that most average WRs could be utilized in that way. Same there, he rarely had receivers exceed much over 1,000 yards, and if they did, typically not by much. Edelman and Welker, both short-yardage slot guys that averaged 11.0 ypr career were two of his better WRs. Gronk was Gronk and would have exceled anywhere. He spread the ball out and was a great on-field tactician in that way and knew how to read Ds, perhaps better than any QB ever. He got more out of all the pieces as a whole, but he also had far better OLs than Allen's best OL ever, who knows when that was. Allen's never had an Edelman or Welker, Beasley's the closest he's had and that was his most successful season, 2020, when he was actually hitting the high-percentage stuff more often. This season will be interesting but Kincaid's still a rookie. Point being, perhaps Allen could do the same with coaches that didn't make "13 Seconds" type of errors or hand huge chunks of yardage to opponents and a top-10 OL. I mean don't you think that would improve Allen's "lifting of everyone else"? Otherwise, right now I see most of the players on our team that would run through a brick wall for Allen. That's a valid concern. My MO is to get the people when their available, not wait until your hand is forced by the media and/or fans that have had enough, force you as the owner to fire them, and then have lesser options than had you planned it out according to when the best would be available. One thing that has plagued us in that way is wanting coaches (and GMs to a lesser extent) for cheap, which I've never understood. I don't know exactly what the cap is these days, but teams spend around $300M on players annually, but hesitate to dish out $10/season for a coach who's the one responsible for putting it all together. That makes no sense to me. I would think that now we would have no trouble attracting the best candidates, it's simply a matter of paying out for the best ones. Moreover, how were the better ones in the league now hired. Obviously someone of influence saw something in them. That wasn't the case when we hired Beane, who was obviously coming from Carolina after the way that they hired McD. What did they see in McD? His track record as DC wasn't particularly stellar, in fact it was incredibly average and inconsistent. And as of today, can you or anyone define what this mythical "Process" actually is? Sounds to me like a ton of BS designed to keep the questioning at bay. Just sayin'. I think that lost in this as we're discussing, again, is where they would be without Allen, that singular draft pick. Honestly, I don't see more than a 6-8 win team annually, which is what we had before they got here. If that's true, then what's the defense of them? (rhetorical) Thanks!! And likewise! I always enjoy a respectable and well thought out back-n-forth! It's the noise, the tangents, and the unnecessary ad hominem that make interactions unenjoyable. LOL

Entirely understandable, after all, we're all fans and want the same thing at the end of the day. I don't begrudge anyone "drinking the koolaid" per se, but for purposes of discussion it's more fun and makes more sense if there's a basis for that discussion. I asked some questions in that post, if you go back and answer them, even if only to yourself, I think you'll open things up a little bit more. Thanks for the rest!!

OK, so on that note, and in the vein of our discussion, how is he supposed to get more out of the RBs? Or the D? How about the OL-men who seem to be playing their hearts out for him already? I can see him forcing more out of Diggs who seems to think that none of this is his fault despite near invisibility in three of the last five playoff games and one underperforming effort. Isn't is entirely possible that we simply don't have the level of talent for Allen to be able to "get that out of them?" ... other than for say Diggs? Also, was Allen responsible for ditching his safety valve Beasley? That's on Beane. There needs to be a degree of realism in any expectation for anyone that has a task set before them. It strikes me that we're asking Allen to turn mud into an award-winning chili as such. But the question remains, at the end of the day, isn't it entirely possible that the level of talent that we have generally speaking, simply isn't good enough to perform to those levels? I mean there are obvious talent differences between say Diggs and Brown, which is widely stated by our fan base every offseason, that we need better receivers. When fans say that, even they know that the talent is not there. Right? So why couldn't the issue be that some of us as fans, overrate the talent that we have?

Thanks! Yeah, I don't think that Frasier's coming back either. I digress however in thinking that McD's defense is going to be better. IMO we have too many shortcomings on defense to be a top-10 D this season, particularly against the slate of QBs and correlating offenses that we play. I do think, fairly or not, that that may lead to Frasier's getting a HC job somewhere as the perception will be that it was him that was responsible for our #1 & #2 ranked Ds. Maybe not, we'll see. The rub is that our playoff D has been on the opposite end of the spectrum, and as I pointed out in another post somewhere, focusing on 1st-Down stats as a singular indicator, they type of D that we have typically fielded in the playoffs, no team has won a recent Super Bowl with a defense like that, so it's incredibly unlikely that we will. In another thread I pointed out how statistically our D was well below average in pass-rushing after Miller went down, and we hardly played Mahomes, Burrow, and Lawrence after that. Mac Jones (twice), Justin Fields, and Mike White. Tua had a much better game w/o Miller than his game with Miller in. Defensively we have no impact pass-rusher, only one LB that's known to be a capable starter at something other than a replacement level, not one CB that was even average last season, aging Safeties and no help from the draft. There's a whole lot hinging on White's knee health this season. Von Miller's finished as an impact player at his age although we'll see him post-surgery at 34, I wouldn't hang my hat that his performance will even approach being reminiscent of last season much less in his prime. There are a whole lot of variables in a season where we face quite a few offenses in the top-half of the league and many top-10s, more than last season easily. We'll see how the season shakes out. I have to think that so much of his "lack of focus" are the stressors of having to overcome so many other shortcomings of the play of the team, and coaching.

Please, I enjoy a good and respectful back-n-forth, I wish there were more of it, not at all taken personally like so many others. Allow me to respond to some of your comments in that same vein. And please, feel free to respond back again. There's nothing for me to "get over," I have no dog in the fight. It is what it is. I do analyze it though, objectively. From an analytical perspective I do find it a little discouraging to see that the things most negatively impacting this team generally continue to remain unaddressed. But in deflecting heat from oneself while allowing it to settle on another under your charge, and someone that's essentially made you what you are, I do have a difficult time disrespecting, anyone and at any level, even employees. This was about Allen however, not me. I was defending him. I don't care if I'm 100% wrong on everything that flows from my pen if we go 17-0 or 8-9, slip into the playoffs as a wild-card, and win the Super Bowl. I'll be the happiest person on the planet at that time. If we continue to "make the playoffs" with Allen at QB, and continue to underachieve and get ousted in the WC or D rounds, then I will be incredibly disappointed like most other fans. But there's nothing personal on my end. At the end of the day absolutely nothing that you or I do or say changes anything. I didn't say that Allen would be winning Super Bowls, I said we'd be seeing a different Allen, for sure a more efficient Allen. I firmly believe that we would be, and no, I didn't elaborate because I didn't want to deal with the backlash and tangents, but I will briefly here. IMO he'd be more of a pocket-passer while using his athleticism only to escape trouble when absolutely necessry, which he wouldn't be facing with nearly the frequency on any of those three teams because their OLs are better, ... because their GMs have done a notably better job at doing that among other things. I was not all that high on the Rams and have even took heat here for stating that their success was largely hinged upon a soft schedule that year and some good fortune and peaking in the playoffs. Not that that matters, your thoughts on McVay aside, IMO Allen would be different anywhere that has a significantly better OL than we've had, and that's a good number of teams. Beane's had 6 drafts now, so I'm not sure "how much time" he needs. Others have done it in far less. As to the Pegulas, who cares, Kim's entirely out of the picture now and Terry has implied if not all but admitted that he's not a football guy like that and he takes no active role in overseeing the team. The Pegulas are not germane to the discussion. How many owners have supported underachieving GMs and HCs in the past, and even now, today. My biggest issue, since apparently it wasn't clear, was that Allen's taking more heat than he should be, and much of that has to do with McD. Your supportive statements re: McD above aside, what does it say for a coach that preaches character and integrity, that refuses to address the biggest reasons why his team loses games, and coaching related, not QB related, and leaves his QB out there to address the media on the topic? In my book it doesn't say very much and is hypocritical. You validated that McD has done that, so do you support it? Do you think that it's good form for someone that preaches (almost literally) integrity and character? Because I don't, I think it sends a poor message to be frank. Allen's trying to be the consummate "team player" in the proverbial sense in this regard, but taking far more heat and responsibility than he should be, and taking it for both Beane's and McD's errors, shortcomings, and mistakes. I mean seriously, allowing an average of 393 yards and over 24 1st-downs in 7 playoff games over the past three seasons is hardly Allen's fault. It is unarguably horrific defensive performance however. We can disagree on all that, but I will say this, if that continues, I'm worried about Allen exercising his out in a couple of seasons. It's nice to think that he'd never leave Buffalo, but if he continues to take a beating because Beane's neglect and/or judgment about building enough protection for him, thereby threatening the longevity of his career not to mention his ability to take his team to the promised land, and if McD keeps fudging up our defensive performances in the playoffs, like with those ridiculous alignments in the Cincy game, and do we need to even discuss "13 Seconds," something that McD has never come clean on, then Allen may opt to leave. In finishing this post, you said the following ... Beane has now had 6 drafts and McD's heading into his 7th season. Defensively we've been tops in the NFL in the regular season, but in the playoffs we have regularly performed to the opposite end of the rankings. The offense has essentially been all Allen, even for running the ball. Now it's commonly held that we're trending downward, and that both the Fins and Jets are trending upward. What if one of them wins the division, or heaven forbid NE? We have better talent on paper than all three teams. And as to McD, to this date we still don't know why "13 Seconds" happened, or whom was specifically to blame for some of our ridiculous defensive alignments in the playoffs. Why? Because he, McD, hasn't come clean on it. That's all fine and dandy, but then it leaves people to speculate and leaves the likely assumption that he was responsible. Right? But if refuses to clear things up, then he should expect people to put things on him, question him, and expect that if it continues, as it has, that it may end up costing him his job. I don't think that's unreasonable in the least. So the question is, how much longer do you give both Beane and McD to "build success"? 8 years? 10? 15? I ask in all earnestness btw. The issues we have continue. So either we're hoping for a leopard to change its spots, or for enough time to pass for McD to learn in OJT fashion, how not to make mistakes that even the average football fan understands the basis for. At some point, whether it's after this season, two more, five more, or 20 more, the plug needs to be pulled. But here's the rub, if we wait too long, we forfeit the advantage of having Allen here, which is 100% of the current basis for hope on this team. Right now there's a stigma held by many, a good chunk of Bills fans as well as a majority of the national media and fans now from what I'm reading, that McD's merely another Marty Schottenheimer or Marvin Lewis, and neither of those coaches had a Josh Allen. And speaking of Lewis, what if Cincy hadn't ditched Lewis and gotten Taylor, who's obviously a better coach? Are you content to ride Allen's career out like that if that's the case? I and many others view it as a tragedy if it shakes out like that. That's essentially what we're talking about here. At the end of the day we have obvious flaws that are preventing us from winning it all. The question must be which of those flaws are more responsible than others, and then let's address those first. What much of the talk of Allen is about these days is his (personal) failure to take us to the promised land, when the reality is that he's that absolute last one that should be taking heat while parties more responsible take less than he does. No? Parting thought ... pick ANY of our QBs during our playoff drought years, put them on this team over the past 6 seasons. What kind of record do you think that McD would have had with those QBs of your choosing?

Well, again, it could be because all eyes are on him, and he takes the collective heat for all of our failures despite being the reason for whatever limited success that we've had. I mean how much help has he gotten offensively from Beane? (this draft and season waiting to see that is) Has coaching helped him out, to win games and advance to the SB? Has the D exceled in the playoffs? Has the coaching staff done everything that it can to utilize our RBs effectively to take as much heat as possible off of him? Meanwhile, McD never says anything in pressers and speaks in riddles, while Beane speaks in typical generalities. If Allen could focus on not having to put up 35+ points to guarantee wins, not have to overcome coaching blunders, on defense too, and could focus on purely his pocket passing, maybe he wouldn't feel the need to take 90% of the heat. It's difficult to respect McD while he hides behind lame statements made following bad or inexplicable losses without rendering any explanations whatsoever much less genuinely accepting responsibility, while Allen's hung out to dry and take the predominance of the heat for why this team has issues. Put Allen on the Eagles, Bengals, Chiefs, and even several other teams and IMO we see a different Allen. Meanwhile, he says what he has to in order to try to keep the attitudes re: the team positive. JMHO

Good post. It prompted some thoughts. If players or teams want to be better or be perceived better, then be better. We complained during the two decades that Brady’s Pats dominated the AFCE, but we never put up a competitive team otherwise during that time. A simple 10-win team would have made the playoffs often during that time. If we want to be better than other teams, then be better. Be better at drafting, coaching, on-field adjustments, executing better, etc. I took a look at the playoff stats for all of this year’s playoff games and noticed that defensively we’re on the low-end. We love looking at regular season rankings, but we don’t seem to want to look too deeply at our playoff metrics. All we do is cite our regular season rankings which don’t matter an iota come playoff time. I won’t list ‘em because too many people will complain, but one stood out. In our last 7 playoff games over the past three seasons, we’ve allowed the following numbers of 1st-Downs which is by a country mile DFL, in our last playoff game of each season; 29, 30, and 30. To add some perspective, of all 13 other playoff teams this season, of any playoff games that they’ve played over the past three seasons, not one has allowed that many 1st-Downs. We allowed 27 to the Colts in our ‘20 playoffs wild-card game, allowing nearly 500 yards and barely beating them at home as a result. Only one of those teams has allowed more than 26 1st-downs in the past three seasons in dozens of playoff games. That was Minnesota who lost to the Giants this past season, allowing 28, also in the wild-card round despite having played a very good offensive game. Winners of the past divisional rounds much less Conference Championships or Super Bowl don’t allow that many 1st-downs, which are obviously correlated to yards and more indirectly to points. This past season the winners of the divisional rounds allowed 20, 13, 19, and 15 1st-Downs. In the Conference Championships the winners allowed 18 and 11, and in the Super Bowl the Chiefs allowed 25 to the Eagles in a high-scoring game. We have allowed 27, 29, 30, and 30 in 4 of our 7 playoff games, and that has nothing to do with Allen. In the 2021 playoffs the divisional round winners allowed 16, 14, 23 (us), and 20 1st-downs. In the CC games the winners allowed 24 and 16, and 15 in the Super Bowl. Here’s the thing, even the losing teams allowed fewer than we’ve allowed in four of our seven games. We were ranked 5th in 1st-downs allowed this past season. Here are the regular season rankings for 1st-downs allowed for the other 13 playoff teams that outperformed us in spades in the playoffs; 2nd (SF), 3rd (Cincy), 6th, 9th, 12th, 14th, 15th, 18th, 19th, 23rd, 24th, 26th, and 30th. So how come we rank 5th in the regular season, but over the past three years of playoffs we play, easily, to a 32nd ranking. That’s on average, it’s a country mile worse in our divisional games or AFC CG. We tout our own regular season stats, but come playoff time we ignore how we underachieve those in huge ways. There are reasons for it an it’s not Allen generally speaking. If it weren’t for Beane drafting Allen neither Beane nor McD would be here right now and both would have joined the trash heap of former coaches and GMs that we’ve had. If we want to be better or be perceived better than our top competitors, then how about drafting better, coaching better, making better in-game adjustments, utilizing our RBs better, allowing fewer 1st-downs, yards, and points than they do. There’s a reason why Allen has to do everything and the other aspects of our game are behind weighed down, and why our draftees in general are not as good as those on other teams. We just don’t want to consider it generally speaking. So if we want to be better, then be better, make yourself better. That’s what our opponents are doing, is it not. If we cannot do that, then it’s time to ask the tough questions that few posting here seem to want to ask.

Consider the aspects of team play that he has to overcome however. Perhaps he's playing that risky because he's trying to make up for obvious deficiencies elsewhere, including coaching.

Why do so many have the need to compare QBs and have "the best one." Can't they all be good but different, isn't that what makes each special. The reason we haven't won a Super Bowl isn't because of Allen v. Burrow or Mahomes or any other QB, it's because of other reasons that there shouldn't be any need to explain. If we want more, it's pretty simple, then the rest of our team, including coaching, is going to have to be better than the rest of their teams, not just during the regular season, but during the playoffs. Better drafting than those teams is part of it also. Put Allen on the Chiefs, Bengals, or Eagles this past season and I'm pretty sure his team plays better than ours did in the playoffs. All those QBs make the league and games better and more fun to watch, which is what the NFL needs. Kinda reminds me of the friend of mine that got married and at his wedding reception he comes over and asks me, do you think that [my wife] is attractive?

Do you drive past regularly? Any chance you can provide regular updates?

Right, how hard could it be, one was already there. Seems to me that TWMP would have an interest in orchestrating that.

Completely agree, it's a team effort as it were. McD's background is as a DB in college, and his first discipline specific coaching job was as a secondary/DBs coach before he went on to be Carolina's DC with very mixed and inconsistent results. 28th, 10th, 2nd, 10th, 6th, 21st in yardage D, and 27th, 18th, 2nd, 21st, 6th, 26th in scoring D, with 2013 (2nd and 2nd) on the merits of an extremely weak schedule featuring only two teams ranked in the top-12 in Offense that season, while getting ousted in their only playoff game doing only a fair job against SF, the 24th ranked Offense that season. From there he came here where he's always first been biased towards the secondary and then subsequent to that more recently the defense in general. As with you, I see no evidence of any scheme, rather more a shuffling of the roster depending upon the best players that are on the field, largely because the ones that aren't the best aren't cutting it. That's what happens and what you set yourself up for when you focus on BPA in the drafts. I see no evidence of any planning either. Last year we wasted a 2nd-round pick on a role-playing RB that they talked up, before trading for more of a 3-down RB in Harris more recently. The number of times we've drafted over ourselves on DL weighs in as well. There are far too many 1 and 2-year signings by Beane to create anything akin to continuity for the most part on the OL and at LB. The guys we've drafted for LB have typically made a big splash in college but not in situations or against opposing players or teams that would be like NFL competition. Oliver comes to mind as well although not at LB. It's all come home to roost now, in Beane's 6th Draft. If we regress this season it really says something about his methodology, or possibly this mysterious and entirely undefined "Process." It'll be very interesting how this season plays out and whether we're finally more competitive in the playoffs or not. There are already more than whispers everywhere but Buffalo as to questions surrounding both Beane and McD, and even in Buffalo many are questioning whether or not they're the ones to get us to the ultimate prize. Time will tell.

Roasting's popular around here. The funny thing is that when the topic that the person is roasted for comes true, then it's the intellectual thougth-of-the-day that it didn't make sense. To your post, this is all a direct result of poor planning by Beane. People defend Beane but there's no excuse or defense. This is his mess. Imagine if you will, Milano gets seriously injured ... we would instantly have the worst linebacking unit in the league. I'm quite curious how McD does this. Time will tell.

You were joking, right?

Without question. We've allowed an average of 393 yards in the playoffs in our 7 playoff games over the last three seasons, worse than any other team in the playoffs, and worse than KC's crappy 11th, 27th, and 16th defenses by nearly 50 ypg. You defend that as being decent, I do not. Absolutely we have different standards.

OTOH, you don't want Belichick anywhere near your draft room on Draft day. With the exception of the lines he's one of the worst drafters in the league.

BTW, the topic (and thread) were about Contracts. So stick with it. F-O-C-U-S. I have faith in you, I do. Singletary and Knox were small contracts, not the biggest. Singletary's gone, for cheap. Knox's was also tiny. 2nd and 3rd round rookie contracts are never huge. You know that, come on. Allen is Allen and no one's questioning that single pick. I'll toss in that Diggs, our $24M/year money man, has averaged 4 catches for 45 yards and not a TD to be found in four of his last 5 playoff games, and has had 0 TDs in our last five playoff games, including the two against KC and one vs. Cincy. As to Oliver and Basham, the latter's contract alwo wasn't huge, very small. Again, he's hardly one of our players that is expected to make an impact, and it shouldn't surprise you if he doesn't even make the roster this year. As to Oliver, good size but not huge contract, they're not going to extend him, but in 8 playoff games that he's been in since he's been here, he's averaged 2-1/2 total tackles (Solo & Asst) per game, 1 each TFL and QBH every other game, and 1 sack every 4 games, 2 total, and one of those 2 sacks was on Skylar Thompson. That's what you're bragging on there. Let's put this to rest, can we.

True, good point.

Thanks! Not sure why Raccuia said little disruption. LOL Looks pretty major to me.

We're so far away from the original comments. You're talking offense, how many of those players above were draft picks in rounds 1-3. Just sayin'. That's the problem with these threads, they digress and it's impossible to focus on the original statements argued both ways.

Edmunds was only 24 though. Milano started when he was 23 and didn't really take that "leap" until last season when he was 27. My thing is that if you're going to draft players when they're 20, you owe it to both your team as well as to the player to work it out to keep them at least until the forefront of their prime, and they didn't do that. IMO Edmunds improves significantly, I also think that he'll be better out of our system. He's very well-rounded despite his tackling issues which IMO aren't monumental. Williams may hit, but is he big enough to stop larger RBs and WRs. We shall see. I'm far from convinced at the moment.

Agreed, which is why I'm not sure why Raccuia said that parking won't be affected very much for this upcoming season. If it's not affected much, it would seem to me that they wouldn't have begun construction until after the season, but they're starting now.