PBF81

Did you use to do professional MX?

Who? Chris Jones? You're not comparing Chris Jones at a mere $3M more per season, to Oliver, are you? Indeed!! I'm still rollin' over here. I literally have tears in my eyes. This place is a real hoot sometimes, and if you can't laugh at yourself ...

I guess the biggest issue in my mind is how would it impact Diggs and his mindset. That seems to be precarious enough as it is. We'll see, it doesn't appear that the Oliver signing was for that purpose. Picking up Floyd was OK but I question where he plays, because he doesn't fill an empty role, he's seemingly yet another player, behind Miller. That's assuming he plays DE. He's played OLB in a 3-4, we play a 4-3. ... or 5-2 or whatever it is. We're still without a MLB. LMAO Great catch. I meant to type congenial. That's hilarious! Thanks for pointing it out. ROFLMAO, you have me going here. ROFLMAO I'm dyin' over here. JfR just pointed that out. LOL Indeed!!

Thanks! Almost all of them are very congenital intelligent strings of conversations I'm having with several people who are also enjoying them. Almost all. 🙂

Since you pinged me in your reply, perhaps, but what's the standard for them knowing this? McD choosing Peterman to play QB over Allen initially stating he was a very good QB? Or bringing guys like Kelvin Benjamin, Lotulelei, Mario Addison, Vernon Butler, Daryl Williams, Andre Smith, and Efe Obada all here from McD's familiarity with them at Carolina knowing what motivated them? Some of those not so inexpensively either. Which do you think is more likely? Since you brought it up that is.

Well, ping me when you see a second tier DT getting anywhere near that $45M in Guaranteed money. I don't see anyone of his caliber or near it even getting $35M guaranteed.

It's the guaranteed money. The perspective on that is mindboggling. Maybe not the overall contract value, again, if he continues to improve, but that $45M in Guaranteed is huge for him and what he brings. It's also going to set a standard on the team, at least to some extent.

Whether you're perplexed or not it's a lot more than it typically would be for a player of Oliver's caliber. It signals that something else is up. That's all I'm saying. I also don't think that the Hopkins thing is a reach in the least. I'm not for it depending upon what we give up to sign him if it happens, but the fact that Beane's been recently talking to Hopkins personally, I'm pretty sure that it wasn't to plan out their extended family picnic.

Monday's when the league office reopens, that's when we'll have more detail on Oliver's contract, but also, if this was in fact done to accommodate Hopkins, one would assume that Beane had this worked out ahead of time instead of taking such a risk in mere hopes. I'm not a huge Beane fanboy, but surely he'd do that. Well, OK, just going by what's been reported, as in that piece posted this morning stating plainly that Beane's been interacting personally with Hopkins and that the primary reason why a deal hasn't been struck by now is because we can't fit it in. That $45M Guaranteed is perplexing. Only Allen, Diggs, Miller, and White got more, and Allen and Miller were on 6 year deals. Miller got only a few million more for two more years. They're all notably better at their positions than Oliver is. There's little argument there. He got then again nearly 70% more than Milano and Milano's twice the player at his position than Oliver is. About 50% more than Dawkins or Knox.

We'll find out tomorrow or Tuesday, but I'm really starting to think that this move was made to reduce the cap hit to be able to squeeze Hopkins in.

Maybe, I know that I'm optimistic about the play of the offense this season. As I've said, I can see our offense being the best that the franchise has ever had. But if Dorsey cannot run it effectively that's not going to happen. Trying to guess what's going to happen there is anyone's guess. Otherwise, there are plenty of reasons for concern that we're all aware of. The results of the season will answer quite a few questions IMHO. I have a hunch that the discussions here 6 months from now or in January are going to be a whole lot different than they now are. Again, we'll see. Nothing to lose one's mind over. LOL The rumors are that it has freed up cap space this season. Otherwise how does one explain $45M guaranteed. It sounds like they guaranteed him more if he'd restructure and take less now. Possibly to sign Hopkins?

Not in the playoffs they're not.

That's clearly a planning thiing and that's on Beane. That's what he gets paid the big bucks to do.

I wouldn't classify it as doom and gloom, but rather questioning what they're doing and why. For example, there's little argument that this Oliver signing, since that's the thread we're in, has risk associated with it. Namely, whether Oliver improves his play or he doesn't. Whether he continues to get injured now that he's had a significant injury, also asking why he was injured since he seemingly stepped it up, but perhaps doing so against bigger and stronger competition was part of the reason he was injured. And for a guy that's typically only played 60% of the snaps in a rotation whereas at least one person has pointed out that DTs that make that kind of money typically don't play just over half the snaps. Not to argue, just to add some perspective. Von Miller's post-injury return, for that reason but also because he's 34 this season, are hardly inconsequential issues and he's getting paid quite a bit. White too, will he become what he was, or something in between last season and what he was? And of course our MLB issue and even our other OLB issue. Defensively, that on top of the fact that we didn't play well after Miller went out, and let's face it, the competition in those games wasn't stiff. Jones twice, Thompson, Fields, and White. Then of course our playoff performance on both sides. I can see how people would be suspect for what's to come this season. I know that I am, as I've stated, I don't see us finishing in the top-10 in defense this season. I can even see us finishing in the 15-20 range. Offensively people are still skeptical of our WR situation. The OL hasn't proven itself yet, Morse is a year older, McGovern and Torrence are both hopefuls but until ..., and we're really counting on Brown to take that next step towards serious improvement. A rookie TE only offers so much hope, and our RBs are a solid but hardly stellar BTTs guy and a utility RB. Then there's Dorsey. Are there going to be more tantrums from him throwing tablets, or are he and Allen going to be in sync and is he going to balance Allen out with some more rushing. That's a lot of stuff to process and come out thinking that we're definitely winning the division and heading for the AFC CG. That's without even discussing our playoff performances or a schedule featuring a slate of offenses the likes of which McD has never faced, either here or in Carolina. As with all, time will tell. Having said all of that, I think that a lot of the concern here is for the future, not so much for this season, and in the manner of the cap. We have several older players and average players with significant contracts. As I've said, are we looking for bargain contracts, or performance from those that we have under contract to the extent that we can win it all while Allen's here.

It's necessary to have players that step up in the playoffs as everyone knows. Unfortunately Oliver has not been among those that have.

LOL Thanks for the humor!!! I think I appreciate it more than anyone in these kinds of conversations. If Rick Astley shows up don't blame me.

Well, I guess we'll find out. I think you'd find the other two articles that I linked somewhere above, probably in the last page or two, very interesting on that point. They may change your take there. One was by SI the other by TSN as I recall.

Yeah, I saw it, and no doubt that have a different take on the receiving situation. I was merely talking what-if. We'll find out tomorrow. I mean it's kinda weird this Oliver extension out of nowhere. Did you read the piece that I posted that stated that Beane has admitted to speaking to Hopkins directly, and that stated that the reason why we possibly hadn't gotten a deal done was due to a lack of cap space? I mean that's pretty revealing. I'm merely putting two and two together combined with the fact that Oliver got $45M guaranteed, which is a lot given the circumstances, and also combined with the rumors that this has opened up cap space for us. Why the urgency all other things being equal. We'll find out tomorrow once the league office opens and the contract details are formally released, and if that was the reason, I expect that we'll hear about Hopkins signing with us by Tuesday. I obviously don't know anymore than anyone else, just trying to make sense of an otherwise odd situation.

Hopkins and Davis are not the same type of WRs though. Hopkins would more move in on the catches of Kincaid or possibly Harty and Shakir, or even Sherfield. He wouldn't take any from Diggs and again, he doesn't fill the role that Davis does either. It would be a terrible look at this point if they tossed Shakir overboard. Also, what of Shorter. Too many WRs, not sure why they'd go after Hopkins unless they were in win-now mode. Who knows, perhaps Pegs had a conversation with McBeane "explaining the importance of this season." I guess we'll never know. Let's see what happens re: this tomorrow. If we were to sign him my guess would be that he'd finish 3rd on the team in catches among WRs/TEs, ahead of both Knox and Kincaid, third among WRs behind both Diggs & Davis.

You have me laughing here. We are? I'm not at all convinced about that. LOL Humor is good too!!

A very interesting comment. Oliver's topped out at 60% snap count, which was this past season. One argument is that it's possible that his injuries arise from being smaller and outmuscled. I don't envision 70% for Oliver for several reasons. First being all the depth that we've added, which if we don't use it, what was the point. But moreover, that's not how McD seems to want to run the D. Of course there's some confusion as to whether Frasier and McD's D philsophies aligned the same way in that manner, but I think it's safe to say that McD prefers the rotational approach. FWIW and to your point. I think. LOL Indeed. I just brought it up because there's speculation now that we made this move in order to open up the cap space for bringing Hopkins on board. In fact, from today ... https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/06/04/buffalo-bills-brandon-beane-spoke-deandre-hopkins/ If the referenced "lack of cap space" was the issue, and Oliver's contract made that available, ... And frankly, if that's the case, then it definitely screams out "win now," future cap issues be damned.

Yeah, I realize that you disagree. these discussions wouldn't be much fun if everyone agreed with everyone else. LOL I was simply providing some basis for why I'm actually pretty bullish on Davis. I will also say, he's one of the better playoff performers. In fact, he's the only one that has single-handely won a playoff game for us in our last five playoff games, the one against KC the "13 Seconds" game. Even Diggs doesn't have that distinction. Had Davis not gone off in that game it likely would have ended more like the season prior in 2020. I'm very curious to see him play injury-free as well. I also don't understand this overemphasis on Hopkins. Hopkins will be 31 this season, has been plagued by injuries the past few seasons and clearly hasn't been the same player since, but for all the talk about character on this team, he was also suspended last season for substance abuse. And if we were to sign him after this Oliver signing, that would definitely be a sign of a "win now" scenario, but it would also question what they'd do with their trade-up 1st-Round pick Kincaid since both seem to fill a similar role. Davis still has ceiling at least, Hopkins has little if any. If we sign Hopkins and win it all, fantastic. But if we sign Hopkins and don't, ... If we do, hopefully it's a performance-driven contract. He's already said he'd like to play with Allen, Mahomes, Hurts, Herbert, or another QB that I forget whom, but who wouldn't. Here's a couple of interesting recent articles on Hopkins. https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/deandre-hopkins-release-cardinals-contract-age/srkfypigejszgpeaehyqmxi3 https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/30/inside-deandre-hopkins-release-options-bills-chiefs

FTR I've never taken the position that he's not a solid #2. I think he's fine in that role. To me however, given the lattitude that's been given to Oliver for playing injured, why doesn't Davis get the same lattitude for playing with a nagging ankle injury for most of the season? Allen got it for his elbow too. All of Davis' 3rd-down catches went for 1st-Downs. He tied for 15th in the league in receiving TDs. He was open on many a play where Allen threw to Diggs instead, with Diggs even dropping some of those catches or with Davis being more wide open and often on single, not double coverage (or more) like Diggs was. He easily could have had 900 or 1,000 yards receiving and ranked in the top-10 for TDs. Here's the kicker, the team, meaning McBeane, are more apologetic about him than they are about Oliver. Yet people here are all ready to toss Davis overboard but are elated with Oliver's extension. Why? I mean if the "Beane & McD know better what they're doing than we do," why the difference in sentiments? And let's suppose that Davis has that breakout season that we've wanted, let's say he logs over 1,000 yards and has 12 TDs, certainly within the realm of reasonable possibility. What will that do to his contract value in a contract year? He'll command much bigger bucks. Would we pay it?

Thanks Interesting that you mention Davis. A lot of people using the "Oliver was injured" excuse, but few giving the same lattitude to Davis. For the mid-4th Round pick that Davis was, he's outperformed 11 or possibly 12 of the 16 WRs taken before him with the last one having been taken 36 picks before him in the mid-3rd. IMO it will be a huge mistake to let him leave. He's easily the best value (Round-to-Performance) pick that Beane's made. He runs low-percentage routes, not the routes of say a slot WR, he takes too much heat for a low catch%. It's a little low by comps, but not nearly as bad as many make out. I've provided the comps here before. Also, on that video of three plays that someone posted a few days ago, talking about how Saffold folded, on the first and third plays where Allen went to Diggs, Davis was equally open and easily could have logged another 50-70 yards on them.

That's a great question. To answer it we have to look at what the team looks like, and how it likely plays, without those players, right?. Would we be better this season w/o Oliver and with Ford in his spot, but Edmunds at ILB? Or will we be better with Oliver in there as it is and with who knows what the LB unit will look like now? There's a lot of subjectivity and speculation there, including how good this Williams rookie really is, but where do you see the biggest dropoff in the overall play of the defense given those two scenarios? BTW, here are PFF's preseason LB rankings. Edmunds makes the top-10. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-linebacker-rankings-2023-nfl-season Being only 24 last season, if you ask me, Edmunds is going to have a phenominal season this year. If that plays out, it will leave a whole lot of people second-guessing.