PBF81

BTW, you are venturing into homer status here on this one.

Good thing I saved this one. Here ya go, I posted this, for the third or fourth time, in another thread hammering on Davis, without whom due to his playoff performances we'd be discussing a new head coach by now. BTW, Diggs has had fewer "peaks" than Davis has had in the playoffs. So since our problems are of the Playoffs nature, not the regular season, if we're going to criticize the WRs, how about criticizing the one that hasn't even approached owning up to his $24M/season contract over the past five playoff games. -------------------- Davis made $1M, had 34 yards on 2 catches, 50.0% catch%, and both went for 1st-Downs. Last season in the playoffs, $1M Davis had 8 catches for 147 Yards, and a catch % of 61.5%. Last season in the playoffs, $96M Diggs had 11 catches for 149 Yards, and a catch % of 57.9%. 6 of Davis' 8 catches went for 1st-Downs. Davis had 1 TD. 6 of Diggs' 11 catches went for 1st-Downs. Diggs had 0 TDs. When that's broken down per dollar paid, ... NOW, let's compare the last 2 seasons of playoffs. First last year, then combined. In the 2021 playoffs Davis had 10 catches for 242 Yards, and a catch % of 76.9%. In the 2021 playoffs Diggs had 6 catches for 67 Yards, and a catch % of 60.0% Only 2 of Diggs' 6 catches went for 1st-Downs. Diggs had 0 TDs. 5 of Davis' 10 catches went for 1st-Downs, 5 of Davis' catches went for TDs. In both of the last two seasons playoffs combined ... Diggs had 17 catches for 216 Yards, and a catch % of 58.6% Davis had 18 catches for 389 Yards, and a catch % of 69.2% Of Diggs 17 catches, 8 went for 1st-Downs, 0 went for TDs. Of Davis 18 catches, 11 went for 1st-Downs, 6 went for TDs. There's absolutely no comparison in the playoffs. Our problem has been in the playoffs, not the regular season. This season Davis makes $3M contrasted with Diggs' 4-year $96M contract. Sorry, but in the playoffs, for my money, I'm going with Davis. And let's skip the Davis only did what he did because of Diggs routine. Diggs didn't outperform Dais anywhere in the playoffs the past two seasons. No matter how it's sliced, our moneyman Diggs has come up drastically short in the playoffs for what he's getting paid.

No, you directly impugned Reich for backing Wentz, and when few options for him were available. There's nothing to interpret here based on what you wrote. Let's not forget that that team is driven by Jim Irsay and Chris Ballard. Hardly Robert Kraft and Bill Polian. I acquiesced to the premise that getting Wentz was entirely his decision and not Ballard's, or worse yet, that sot Irsay's. Same for Ryan. In doing so you opened up the argument to the judgement of the coaches in the discussion, Reich v. McD. I merely pointed out that if you're going to impugn the judgement of Reich for unequivocally backing a QB like Wentz, then it definitely is within the realm of reasonability to question the same judgement on the part of the coach that you are defending. McD's support for Peterman was as ardent as it gets, the fans and media literally had to force his hand into a change. Remarkably, when any blind man could see that Peterman was going nowhere but to pursue the ambitions of his college degree. BTW, that "horrific" season that you imply Wentz had, again, from someone that also doesn't care for Wentz, Wentz put up his third best Yardage and Ratings seasons, and 2nd best TD and TD% seasons in his 7-year career. I wonder how Allen would have done with Pittman Jr., Pascal, a washed up Hilton, and Dulan, two of which very few here have even heard of. I know that the crescendo of wails originating in Buffalo related to the talent at WR would have been heard in Elmira. I also think that Reich was quietly awaiting to be chosen at least as the OC for us, but it's pretty clear that McD wasn't about to hire someone that could easily replace him if things went south, or not as well as he should have done. So he hires Daboll, who's track record of offenses during his tenures as OC consistently ranked in the 20s, typically the mid-high 20s even. If you want I post 'em. Abysmal. Reich would have been so much a better OC or HC for this Allen-centric team. After McD, and I'm pretty confident it's coming unless we win it all this season, will be an offensive minded HC.

It's part of the direct comparison between Reich and McD, sure you are. You may not have meant to, but that's the way it unfolded.

And my playoffs argument?

When you put up that argument, implicitly you are defending McD's Peterman choice. The facts and data are above as are the arguments. Wentz wasn't even nearly the worst QB that season. He finished 10th in passing TDs. To attempt to impugn a coach on that, with the siht he had at WR is ridiculous.

BTW, for all the crying we do around here for not having Cincy's core of WRs, Reich/Wentz had Pittman Jr., Pascal, A washed up Hilton, and Dulan. Imagine the tears if those guys were our core of WRs. LOL. Reich also got five times more from Hines offensively. And BTW, his offense that season finished 9th in scoring to our 5th. Pretty remarkable considering the garbage he had other than at RB. To reiterate, yes, I think that Reich would have gotten way more out of this offense than McD is.

Really? OK, since apparently you enjoy polemical pain ... McD deliberately chose Peterman - far far far worse than Wentz, and even to the extent of raving about him after the draft, thereby shattering your argument - over all other options, including Allen at that time. I'm not a Wentz fan in the least, but in Indy he posted 3,563 Yards, 27 TDs, 7 INTs, 62.4%, and had a rating of 94.6. McD's wonderboy choice in his 8 games & 4 starts captured Bills Mafia's hearts with 548 yards, 3 TDs, 12 impressive INTs, a 52.3%, and a 32.5 rating. A number of posters here may have been able to do that back in their prime. Not only is he the worst QB to ever suit up for the Bills, and McD's "best chance to win," great humor in retrospect, but he's one of the worst QBs in NFL history. And your honestly defending McD over Reich here on that premise, that Wentz was worse than Peterman. SMH/ ROFLMAO just take the L here. I'll cover your breakfast.

Very nicely summed up! I'm not sure that it's primarily Allen tho, he's the primary reason we've even been worth a siht. He's got it in him It definitely hasn't been our OL, RBs, TEs, or WRs that have carried us. But now we've got Diggs' to worry about, and of course the elephant sitting in the fruit bowl is Dorsey. McD's in the sights now too re: his D. He was patently average in Carolina with very arguably better D talent there and he's got the toughest slate of offensive talent on the schedule that he's ever seen and for the first time he's been here he doesn't have one of the easier schedules in the league. We'll see how he does, but why would we expect anything better than what he's done in the past. Absolute requirements are winning the division and advancing beyond the Divisional Round convincingly, not by barely beating a team using it's 3rd-string QB while playing at home in front of rabid fans, and if we lose after that, it had better be a perfectly played game against a great team, but most importantly, no coaching blunders. If that doesn't happen I suspect that the existing narratives re: McBeane will be stood on their heads. Excuses aren't going to fly this time. McD's entering his 7th season and Beane's has had 6 years now too put an above-average team on the field around Allen. It's all once again looking better than it ever has. IMO that's a big hill though considering the patterns & trends to date.

No, Frank, the man that started in no uncertain terms that Peterman (Mr. Throwing INTs is fun!) gave his team the best chances of winning. You know, Peterman, the worst QB in the history of his franchise. Oh wait, my bad, that was McD. So sorry 'bout that, I misspoke. My bad. 😉 And really, what do you expect coaches to say. "I really hope I can make this guy play, I just don't feel like I've been given much to worth with."? And what on game day? "Let's go fellas, he may stink the joint up, but let's see if the rest of us can put together a decent game. Now let's go out there and take these guys apart!" 😂 There's a HUGE difference between Reich there, and DELIBERATELY CHOOSING over other options, ALL off which were better, and backing Peterman until fans and media forced his hand otherwise. I appreciate you stepping in to help bolster the argument that I made though. 😎

Mahomes is a better passer for sure. But better overall QB, debatable to be sure. This league is predicted upon offense and had been for years. Teams with head coaches from an offensive background have an advantage as do QBs on those teams generally speaking and in apples-to-apples comps. I would loved to have seen what Reich would have done here. His offenses in Philly with siht at QB were average. Good offenses in Indy, also with siht at QB were above average. He would have been a much better hire for Allen than McD. And yes, I realize the chicken/egg element there.

I wasn't comparing Brown & Davis as similar WRs, I was comparing their stats relative to opportunities. If it seemed that way I didn't mean it. Everyone ragging a on Davis would be equivalent to saying that Shakir sucks and will never be good. Huw do we know, he's never had the targets. Based upon the straight line oops tho, Davis got a fraction of the chances that other top WRS got. So start there, you can't possibly ignore that in good faith. Brown also isn't a slot WR either. Way to leapfrog his 149th ranking in the sole metric you used to make a point. All I did was turn it on it's head. What's good for the goose... Also, way to ignore a bunch of incredibly relevant days otherwise. You're better than that.

Comparing him to a slot receiver or a short (read higher percentage receiver) is bad analysis. AJ Brown ranked 149th in catch %. Should the Eagles think about moving on from him too? If Davis had gotten the same percentage more targets as Brown got, at his catch % and YPR he'd have finished with 1,303 Yards, 11 TDs, and 55 1st-Downs, which would have been good for 9th, 3rd, and 15th in the league. AND Davis is 2 years younger than Brown. That potential is obviously there, and using the same rates, catch % included, as he now has. I don't think that anyone would be willing to let him walk if he hit those numbers. I suspect he'll do better this season and instead of getting a reasonable deal, we'll have made keeping him far more expensive if not impossible. I did this, here for the forum, but if you take a look at the WRs that have his YPR average or close, you'll find the WRs that run similar routes, typically medium to long. Let's face it, when have you seen Davis run a short out or a screen or something, doesn't happen. Anyway, if you want to be fair to him, look at the WRs (with a qualified number of catches that is, you choose but be reasonable) that are among the top in YPR. Then compare their catch %. He's still a little low, but a little low, and playing on an ankle injury to boot. Also, I don't understand two things. First, he was 23 this past season. 23! For other players that seems to matter in their favor, but not for him. Secondly, he had a nagging ankle injury for much of the season. Same there. People cut Brown, White, Miller, etc. "injury slack," but not Davis. It seems that the narrative on him has been cemented with little hope for him breaking it other than a standout season. He seems to be the whipping boy for the offense. Also, don't forget the fact of the playoffs stats that I provided. Were you able to look at those above? He was also 2nd in the league in YPR, which is where you'll find his peers, 49th in 1st Downs, 40th among WRs in 1st-Downs. On a fraction of the catches. And people here want to cast that talent overboard. I don't get it. I simply cannot fathom that.

He's also been at higher profile events with far more media attention. I wouldn't be worried, one article had him quoted as the two of them laughing a lot when together. That means loose, which is good. As long as he continues to heave before games I think we'll be fine.

It seems that he prefers that small pond. He'll be fine with her as his go-to in the slot role. I'd like to see Allen under an offensively oriented head coach before coming to that final conclusion.

If he's not paid here, the 24-year old will be paid elsewhere and he'll shine. He was only 23 last season for the love of football. He runs low-percentage routes and his catch % in that way is not far out of line with his peers. I've outlined this before citing the data. He's outperformed most of the WRs drafted ahead of him in his draft class and has scored more TDs than all but Jefferson, and tying Lamb, both of whom were drafted in the 1st round. Sometimes I think people think that he was a 1st or 2nd round draft pick. He was a mid-4th round pick. That's not true in the playoffs. Did you check out the playoff stats that I provided? Without Davis' performance in our playoffs, that "13 Seconds" game is like the one the year prior, or an even worse lopsided loss. In the Miami playoff game this season, without his TD and 113 Yards (66.7% catch %) we lose that game too despite anything that Diggs did.

Well, I did say "more than almost all." So there's that. The Bengals were one of my exceptions. Secondly, considering that Tagavailoa, Herbert, and Carr (or Garoppolo if you want to use this year) are the QBs on those other teams, that's hardly insignificant. Would you rather have one of those three QBs and their WRs? I wouldn't. My reference was as to what Dorsey, not Allen, has at his disposal. Allen is, almost indisputably, the most athleticly gifted QB in the league. They need to protect him more, which is another well-known story, but that regardless. I find it a little bit odd that every offseason the mantra is that Allen doesn't have the tools. Then going into every season he does. Then at the end of the season he doesn't again. And yet, the people making those decisions are experts and need to be trusted. Something's not adding up. Also, we may not end up having the best OL in the league, I doubt it'll be much into the top-10, but it's the best OL that McD's had on his watch. Kincaid's been raved about by everyone. We added several WRs via both FA and the Draft. We don't use our RBs, much less Hines out of the backfield, like McD said he would when we traded for him. He averaged nearly 60 catches, 20 1st-Downs, and 400 Yards/season with Indy. In 9 games here he had 5 catches, 3 1st-Downs, and 53 yards, a pace of about 10 catches for 100 yards and 6 1st-Downs per season, a small fraction of what he did in Indy, which is why they wanted him ironically, or at least what they stated. That's all on Dorsey and before him Daboll despite how everyone seems to think he's some kind of god, and despite leading the Giants to the 16th Scoring and 18th Yardage Offense last season, his best ever w/o Allen and even better than his first two seasons here with Allen. Daboll was horrible, absolutely horrible in 8 prior seasons as an OC including his first two here. At the end of the day, and despite the lack of willingness of many to accept even the possibility, the possibility does exist that coaching is what's holding this team back. I'm of the opinion that at the end of this season the favored narrative on McD, and quite possibly Beane, are going to be entirely different than they are now, and not favorable for them. Obviously I hope that's not the case, that we go to the Super Bowl and win, but if not, when are we going to start addressing the coaching situation rather than constantly blaming the talent, and just by the way, without including Beane in on that "talent" discussion. Many teams have done more with notably less offensive talent. I also happen to think that Diggs, Mr. Playoffs-No-Show, is overrated. Finally got that out. LOL The guy hasn't even been our best WR in the playoffs, not even close. How does that happen for a the most expensive player on the team after Allen. If Dorsey can figure out what RBs are, and how to spread the ball out and use high-percentage plays, with Allen we'd be fine. Maybe not #1 or #2 offense fine, but a good OC/HC should be able to figure out how to make that offense without Diggs go. Using your RBs for balance cannot be stressed enough. This lame argument that RBs aren't used today is nonsense to the extent that it's applied here in Buffalo. I don't think that people understand, by a country mile we were the worst team in the league in the utilization of RBs.

How many did $96M man Diggs have? I'll help ya out. He had 35 yards on 4 catches and a 40.0% catch %. Davis made $1M, had 34 yards on 2 catches, 50.0% catch%, and both went for 1st-Downs. Last season in the playoffs, $1M Davis had 8 catches for 147 Yards, and a catch % of 61.5%. Last season in the playoffs, $96M Diggs had 11 catches for 149 Yards, and a catch % of 57.9%. 6 of Davis' 8 catches went for 1st-Downs. Davis had 1 TD. 6 of Diggs' 11 catches went for 1st-Downs. Diggs had 0 TDs. When that's broken down per dollar paid, ... NOW, let's compare the last 2 seasons of playoffs. First last year, then combined. In the 2021 playoffs Davis had 10 catches for 242 Yards, and a catch % of 76.9%. In the 2021 playoffs Diggs had 6 catches for 67 Yards, and a catch % of 60.0% Only 2 of Diggs' 6 catches went for 1st-Downs. Diggs had 0 TDs. 5 of Davis' 10 catches went for 1st-Downs, 5 of Davis' catches went for TDs. In both of the last two seasons playoffs combined ... Diggs had 17 catches for 216 Yards, and a catch % of 58.6% Davis had 18 catches for 389 Yards, and a catch % of 69.2% Of Diggs 17 catches, 8 went for 1st-Downs, 0 went for TDs. Of Davis 18 catches, 11 went for 1st-Downs, 6 went for TDs. There's absolutely no comparison in the playoffs. Our problem has been in the playoffs, not the regular season. This season Davis makes $3M contrasted with Diggs' 4-year $96M contract. Sorry, but in the playoffs, for my money, I'm going with Davis. And let's skip the Davis only did what he did because of Diggs routine. Diggs didn't outperform Dais anywhere in the playoffs the past two seasons. No matter how it's sliced, our moneyman Diggs has come up drastically short in the playoffs for what he's getting paid. But to your other point, rookie TEs in particular rarely do much. If he goes over 500 Yards and 5 TDs it will end up having been a spectacular season for him comparatively speaking. It'd be foolish to think that he'll be the difference.

THAT right there! Unfortunately, the talent we have really doesn't have much to do with that. Dorsey's got more than almost all other OCs have at their disposal when Allen's factored into the mix. The talent isn't the issue this season. If Dorsey pulls his head out of his a$$ this could easily be the best offense in team history and be #1 in the league, perhaps by a decent margin.

People don't realize the extent to which Davis was open but Allen went to Diggs instead. I noticed this while watching a handful of videos that people here posted along with some others that spun off of that. Davis can't help it if Allen doesn't throw to him. Also, of the 12 catches he had on 3rd-down, all 12 went for a 1st-Down and averaged 24.8 yards. On 3rd-and-long he converted 8 of those. He easily could have also had the 1,200+ yards that Diggs had. People are way to hard on him. Not to mention, he seems to be the only one that isn't widely recognized as having had an injury, an ankle injury to boot.

A concerned fan. For many, they pray to the receiving god on game days after having too many Blues, Genny's, or other alcohol.

First of all I'm not sure where you come up with rudeness. Never was I intent on being rude, I always strive not to be. We have Allen who does everything, at times out of necessity as if he's playing sandlot ball. ... which is a reflection of a lack of guidance. (AKA coaching) We make the least use of our RBs in the entire league by a country mile. Our play calling is questionable at best. We have a head coach that once legitimately thought that Peterman was or best chance to win. If Allen's gonna be Allen, no, I don't see how we could be much worse offensively. This is exactly why I've said that if Dorsey does a great job this fall, we have the ability to be the best Offense in team history. Under any circumstances, which also means under any coach, I can't imagine us finishing worse than 5th offensively this season. While on the sidelines two seasons ago, I also envision no other coach allowing "13 Seconds," not one.

Is there another choice!

That's never prevented the hostilities, it's probably hastened them. It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. A thread isn't a thread until the vitriol springs forth. LOL

ROFLMAO!! AND the Wing Eating champion!