PBF81

Bashing Gabe Davis seems to be pretty popular.

Exactly right, so why get all worked up about things. Right?

OK

I hear ya. But rather than use "ignore," if I get to a post that I simply think is over the top, I ignore it. Some people seem to want to deliberately argue with everything that I post, why would I respond to those. Things can get tiresome if you let them. About a week ago I stepped away from here altogether for about a week because I needed a break, and rather than risk getting testy with anyone, I simply went away. Forums are always controversial. Posting online is a lot different than sitting next to or across from someone at the Big Tree and having a discussion. Things get lost, contexts are misconstrued, complexities arise as a direct result. Then things can get out of hand. That stuff doesn't happen in person It's part and parcel of discussion forums. Try going to a political one sometime. Oy! LOL I generally hate forums for the rough reasons stated above. I much prefer back-n-forth via e-mail, but people seem to like the mass approach. But that's when things get out of hand. And BTW, when you mentioned post counts before, consider, how many do I have in this thread simply having a decent conversation with you? By the raw numbers it might look like something else. Just sayin'.

But in fairness to me, every one of those is in the context of a conversation with someone. Not arbitrary posts, and at least one of those conversations was quite lengthy. I don't recall too many other people chiming into the one in particular, so that "post-count" is a bit misleading in that way. That's all I'm saying. BTW, there are plenty of threads that I don't participate in because I have no opinion or because I don't think that they're relevant. At least not to me. I see absurd thread titles just like everyone else, doesn't mean I'm going to jump in and say that. LOL

I've got one tucked away that I'm not going to mention lest I have to take a shower to wash the rotten veggies and eggs off of me. Seriously though, there's on in particular and a couple others that I'm going to keep my eye on just in case. All currently OCs. Ben Johnson would seem as if he'd be in the mix though.

Congratulations on your son's first father's day. That is awesome!! Your first grandfather's day? LOL @ the "someone you need to talk to." IDK, maybe it wasn't you. Had to do with Sherfield. 10 O/U I think. I have it filed somewhere. I'll probably forget by the time the season ends, one way or the other, unless I'm reminded.

Well, to start, and I think you know this, but I'm one of those that has seen enough from him. Do I want him fired right now? No, of course not, that makes zero sense. However, if the season plays out as I think it will, and neither you nor I know for certain how it's actually going to play out, then yes, I'd like to see someone else in the role. If someone respectfully disagrees, like you do with me, great, no issues. I can live with that. Why do you and I seem to get along better when my take is the take that you can't stand. And to your point, maybe I missed it, but I don't think that given a choice, anyone would have him fired right now, in late June, just before camp starts. That'd be idiocy. Like you and I decided and and agreed to do, just see how things play out and discuss as the season goes on, eh. It would hardly be the first time here that a major narrative were shattered, right. LOL I think everyone bought into Rex Ryan hook line and sinker, and look what happened. Just one example from the coaching side. From the player side there's Watkins, Zay Jones, Ford, Epenesa, etc.

I'm not frequent on this one, but in responding to other posters, not arbitrarily, I've been on several others. I don't call that crusading though. I'm also not "getting off on it" but I've been accused of that. Sometimes it helps to simply step back and enjoy the posting fury. LOL I always marvel at how and at the rate at which threads deteriorate, A, from the original point made, and in terms of the hostilities. [snicker] Sometimes you simply have to take things with a grain of salt. The discussions here sometimes devolve into board-like discussions as if we as a community have to make the decisions. Enjoy your fathers day! Presumably you're a dad, if so, happy fathers day!!! Don't let this stuff get to you and just agree to disagree. That's what we did on one point that we made a friendly wager on.

No one thinks or wants McD to be fired right now. This is a discussion, or should be. Some people get way too upset over it. It's only at "crusade levels" because McD apologists argue back, and apparently get their panties all in a bunch. One could argue that the "crusade" is that McD is the perfect head coach argument. Which is ridiculous. Maybe not getting all twisted up over it would help your own cause if you want it to calm down, while simultaneously not ignoring all of the rumor floating around about McD. Those rumors not spawned by people here, are out there for a reason. Just like for all we know he may take us to the Super Bowl and win it this season, you have no idea if the Diggs thing is going to explode further, the rookies are going to be what's been billed, how McD's D is going to be, whether we find out more about Frasier and why he quit, and a bunch of other things. But what if by the end of the season a bunch of that does unfold for McD negatively? You don't know with certainty that it won't. Take me for example, I enjoy the back-n-forth if it's civil. I don't merely go starting threads and "crusading" as you say some do, but I've been accused of doing that. I typically only respond to some, not all, posters in a polemical manner. If people don't respond to my posts, then the conversation ends. Often I'll simply state agree to disagree. What's wrong with that. Likewise for me. There's certain posters I won't even bother giving one reply for that very reason. Some people get so upset over things that absolutely not one of us has any control over. I don't get it. In the meantime, until the games start, or at least camps & preseason, all we have is talk amongst people that choose to come here, read, and/or respond. But that choice is theirs. If it upset me as much as I seem to see people getting upset by it, and given that not one of us can do a damn thing to change even an iota of it, I think I'd take a few months break and relax a little, enjoy life, family, whatever. It's football, not everyone's livelihood.

I see. So it has almost nothing to do with a poor secondary or pass defense. OK Agree to disagree. Again, I'd be curious as to poll results if you posed that exact question. Question however, since it's game-planning, how come we're not always open against the better pass defenses? What's McD doing differently in those games? Telling the WRs to fake it and not get open? I honestly cannot believe that you're arguing this. Did you watch that video of Davis' TD plays?

I fully agree, but my point is that nothing's going to change prior to the end of the season, and what I was referring to as "being premature," was which coach(es) we should go after. I'm also allowing for what you and I consider to be an incredibly unlikely scenario where McD for some unbeknownst and unforeseen reason all of a sudden becomes the coach that he hasn't been to date. Otherwise, it stands to reason that several other great coaching candidates will emerge as well in addition to the handful that are now spoken about as being "next in line" kinda thing. For better or for worse, we're stuck with what we have. Differing opinions aside, we're all going to be rooting for the team no matter the circumstances. I really do believe, strongly, that the reality of the situation is going to become painfully clear as the season wears on. But we'll see what happens. I wish there weren't so much seeming animosity here over simple disagreements as to things of this nature.

BTW, I think that if you go back and rewatch those four TD plays, like I just did, you'll notice that it was largely individual effort that generated those, not great plays much less a great "game plan" as you insist. On all four Knox was also wide open. On the last one Diggs was as open as Davis. The KC D looked entirely overwhelmed talent wise. If the excuse last season was that "we were flat," it's equally valid that we were simply on for that and the NE playoff game a week earlier. But I have no idea how after rewatching those how anyone can claim that Allen-Davis in that game was game-planning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d63gipMMUeA And again, KC's D was average at best.

No, not true at all. I don't give McD the same leeway because of "13 Seconds," the Cincy defensive debacle, his feigning that he has little to do with it and otherwise not coming clean, the Diggs drama, which is likely far from over, etc. "13 Seconds" and the Cincy debacle is enough for me. As I've said, those are high-school coaching errors, despite some spinning it that only the experts can know or whatever nonsense. LOL Again, show me where Reid ever did something as egregious as "13 Seconds"? I've asked this question, what now, a half-dozen times to varying people, and we have yet that it gets answered with a straight answer. The season's going to play out however it plays out, regardless of what anyone here says or thinks, let's wait and see and discuss further towards the end of the season. Hopefully it'll work out so that I look like a moron.

Correct, that's how it began. Then you insisted that that the entire reason for that win was "game plan." To which I [wholeheartedly] disagreed. I've already pointed out that only Oliver did much on offense, we allowed more points to the Chiefs, with the #1 D, that only a few other teams, three to be precised, having scoring D's ranked from 18th to worse, much worse, that our running game did nothing, Diggs did nothing (3 catches for 7 yards), etc., and by implication you're now claiming that that wasn't "stunk." LOL, seriously? So question then, how many games do you think we win, say this season, if our running game runs for 41 or so yards on 13 or so carries, and only one person in our front-7 logs a sack, TFL, or QB Hit, and without Allen throwing 4 TDs? I'm guessing that on those two points alone, if you put this question out to the football loving world, the answer with the greatest frequency would be akin to "not too many." Allen's only thrown for 4+ TDs 9 times during the regular season, only three times against playoff teams, never against any team that's gone past the Divisional Round. He's done it twice more in the playoffs, in the season that we're talking about, vs. KC and NE the prior week when he had 5. ... for reference purposes. Go ahead and post a poll here, ask if the results of the KC "13 Seconds" game, to the extent that we excelled, were "game plan" or simply Allen being Allen and Davis posting a career day. And BTW, the other thing to keep in mind here is that KC, while good, had anything but a good Defense, which ranked 15th in Scoring D and 28th in Yardage D. Their passing D was very average. It's not as if we were playing the '85 Bears while we were on offense. That's relevant as well.

I'm not talking about "choking." I'm talking about making egregious errors. I'll admit that perhaps there's something out there that I'm unaware of. I'll defer to your expertise or more knowledgeable disposition to point out to me, so that I can educate myself that is, to point out Reid's or Dungy's "13 Seconds" or otherwise repeatedly having his defense play 10-15 yards off the ball on critical short-yardage situations. I'm always game for updating myself. Let me know please. Thanks for your offer.

If Andy Reid had Josh Allen, he wouldn't have lasted five seasons had he not at least gone to the Super Bowl. A major rebuild wouldn't be necessary. Competent drafting on the GM side would be. On the coaching side, the simple avoidance of drastic errors, that quite frankly no coach that's ever coached a team to a Super Bowl win has ever made in the playoffs, and the proper utilization of the talent that currently exists on the team offensively is all that's needed here. Who knows, maybe the 7th time's the charm for McD.

All fine and dandy and a lot of common sense in there. But this exchange began with you stating that Allen-to-Davis with both posting career games while the rest of the team stunk the joint up to epic put performance, was the game plan. I'm simply looking for clarification there. If that was the game plan, why hasn't it repealed itself, even with Diggs, in several seasons now. IMO your digging a hole here. Might be time to put the shovel down. 🙂 Happy Father's Day BTW, presumably you are! 🙂

It's funny too because the OP's original question was who would be a better candidate, forget the fact that there are never any guarantees about that. Them it goes into another debate as to whether or not he should go. LOL Perhaps the most hilarious thing about all of it is that not one of us has a single shred of control or influence in the outcome. The reality is that McD could make a huge leap forward in coaching progress, but he could also regress significantly too. None of anyone here knows with any certainty. Nothing's changing 'til after the season of anything changes at all. We're all going to be bitching at the TV over bad calls and bad plays, and conversely cheering our brains out when we succeed. Getting back to the original proposition,ho knows who the best choice would be if it were to happen. The season will provide all those answers.

It's a bit premature for this. Let's see how the season plays out. It's a foolish proposition to think that this is going to be another drama-free season given the Diggs situation, the murkiness as to exactly why Frasier left, Miller's status, White's status, Davis' status, Dorsey's coaching, McD calling the D AND head coaching, etc., and that we're a shoe-in for another division title and a trip to the AFC CG. If it happens though we'll all be ecstatic. If not, then there will be heightened criticism and unrest in the media and among fans. If McD did end up getting replaced, then I'm sure that they'd be looking at how things develop during the season and making a decision in November (to themselves) at the earliest, not prior to the start of training camp this current season. McD's set himself up to either succeed to a greater extent, or he's given himself enough rope to hang himself. What he does depends upon him, not any of us. It seems highly unlikely that the sentiment remains the same as it is now. It seems far likelier that he'll either cement the trust in him by our fanbase, or that things are going to start falling apart for him. Most of us have our suspicions, but at the end of the season there isn't a Bills fan that wouldn't be ecstatic if he took us to and won the Super Bowl.

I've done that, several times. Just not in this thread. Sorry you've missed it. I understand however. Sleep well! By the way, I'm guessing that by the end of this forthcoming season the narrative around here is going to be quite a bit different. If it is, then hopefully it'll shed a little more light on "where I've been wrong."

Well, OK, I won't say that it's bad. Why don't you tell me what's good? I've already asked this once from someone, nothing came back. People cannot simply keep screaming over and over that it's not bad, without pointing out why not. So again, what's the good? What are the above-average much more impact draft picks that Beane's made, besides the obvious one of Allen, which many claim is carrying the team? 13-3 and "made the playoffs" are not draft picks. Let's start there. Doesn't matter the round, the percentages, etc. Who's good? I'll let you prove me wrong, that there is no concerning trend or pattern here. Well that makes perfect sense if the reason why Allen & Davis went off, pretty much only in that particular game, was due to coaching. Are you signifying that what Allen and Davis did in that game was due to McD's coaching? Daboll's? Anyone's? If that's it simply say so. If not, I guess I've got a point, right? I don't know where else this goes. Help me out here ...

It may be too early to judge the last draft, maybe the 2021 Draft as well, but there's a clear pattern in his drafting and it's anything but good. It shouldn't be hyperbole to suggest that unless that trend takes a serious turn upwards re: his 2021 & 2022 Drafts, then it will be problematic for his career.

Which players did he draft that are good and on the team, besides the obvious single pick of Allen who singlehandedly revolutionized the team? ... that are "cornerstones" or even impact players?

So if Ryan had a better team, why is Beane getting love?