PBF81

No, Frank, the man that started in no uncertain terms that Peterman (Mr. Throwing INTs is fun!) gave his team the best chances of winning. You know, Peterman, the worst QB in the history of his franchise. Oh wait, my bad, that was McD. So sorry 'bout that, I misspoke. My bad. 😉 And really, what do you expect coaches to say. "I really hope I can make this guy play, I just don't feel like I've been given much to worth with."? And what on game day? "Let's go fellas, he may stink the joint up, but let's see if the rest of us can put together a decent game. Now let's go out there and take these guys apart!" 😂 There's a HUGE difference between Reich there, and DELIBERATELY CHOOSING over other options, ALL off which were better, and backing Peterman until fans and media forced his hand otherwise. I appreciate you stepping in to help bolster the argument that I made though. 😎

Mahomes is a better passer for sure. But better overall QB, debatable to be sure. This league is predicted upon offense and had been for years. Teams with head coaches from an offensive background have an advantage as do QBs on those teams generally speaking and in apples-to-apples comps. I would loved to have seen what Reich would have done here. His offenses in Philly with siht at QB were average. Good offenses in Indy, also with siht at QB were above average. He would have been a much better hire for Allen than McD. And yes, I realize the chicken/egg element there.

I wasn't comparing Brown & Davis as similar WRs, I was comparing their stats relative to opportunities. If it seemed that way I didn't mean it. Everyone ragging a on Davis would be equivalent to saying that Shakir sucks and will never be good. Huw do we know, he's never had the targets. Based upon the straight line oops tho, Davis got a fraction of the chances that other top WRS got. So start there, you can't possibly ignore that in good faith. Brown also isn't a slot WR either. Way to leapfrog his 149th ranking in the sole metric you used to make a point. All I did was turn it on it's head. What's good for the goose... Also, way to ignore a bunch of incredibly relevant days otherwise. You're better than that.

Comparing him to a slot receiver or a short (read higher percentage receiver) is bad analysis. AJ Brown ranked 149th in catch %. Should the Eagles think about moving on from him too? If Davis had gotten the same percentage more targets as Brown got, at his catch % and YPR he'd have finished with 1,303 Yards, 11 TDs, and 55 1st-Downs, which would have been good for 9th, 3rd, and 15th in the league. AND Davis is 2 years younger than Brown. That potential is obviously there, and using the same rates, catch % included, as he now has. I don't think that anyone would be willing to let him walk if he hit those numbers. I suspect he'll do better this season and instead of getting a reasonable deal, we'll have made keeping him far more expensive if not impossible. I did this, here for the forum, but if you take a look at the WRs that have his YPR average or close, you'll find the WRs that run similar routes, typically medium to long. Let's face it, when have you seen Davis run a short out or a screen or something, doesn't happen. Anyway, if you want to be fair to him, look at the WRs (with a qualified number of catches that is, you choose but be reasonable) that are among the top in YPR. Then compare their catch %. He's still a little low, but a little low, and playing on an ankle injury to boot. Also, I don't understand two things. First, he was 23 this past season. 23! For other players that seems to matter in their favor, but not for him. Secondly, he had a nagging ankle injury for much of the season. Same there. People cut Brown, White, Miller, etc. "injury slack," but not Davis. It seems that the narrative on him has been cemented with little hope for him breaking it other than a standout season. He seems to be the whipping boy for the offense. Also, don't forget the fact of the playoffs stats that I provided. Were you able to look at those above? He was also 2nd in the league in YPR, which is where you'll find his peers, 49th in 1st Downs, 40th among WRs in 1st-Downs. On a fraction of the catches. And people here want to cast that talent overboard. I don't get it. I simply cannot fathom that.

He's also been at higher profile events with far more media attention. I wouldn't be worried, one article had him quoted as the two of them laughing a lot when together. That means loose, which is good. As long as he continues to heave before games I think we'll be fine.

It seems that he prefers that small pond. He'll be fine with her as his go-to in the slot role. I'd like to see Allen under an offensively oriented head coach before coming to that final conclusion.

If he's not paid here, the 24-year old will be paid elsewhere and he'll shine. He was only 23 last season for the love of football. He runs low-percentage routes and his catch % in that way is not far out of line with his peers. I've outlined this before citing the data. He's outperformed most of the WRs drafted ahead of him in his draft class and has scored more TDs than all but Jefferson, and tying Lamb, both of whom were drafted in the 1st round. Sometimes I think people think that he was a 1st or 2nd round draft pick. He was a mid-4th round pick. That's not true in the playoffs. Did you check out the playoff stats that I provided? Without Davis' performance in our playoffs, that "13 Seconds" game is like the one the year prior, or an even worse lopsided loss. In the Miami playoff game this season, without his TD and 113 Yards (66.7% catch %) we lose that game too despite anything that Diggs did.

Well, I did say "more than almost all." So there's that. The Bengals were one of my exceptions. Secondly, considering that Tagavailoa, Herbert, and Carr (or Garoppolo if you want to use this year) are the QBs on those other teams, that's hardly insignificant. Would you rather have one of those three QBs and their WRs? I wouldn't. My reference was as to what Dorsey, not Allen, has at his disposal. Allen is, almost indisputably, the most athleticly gifted QB in the league. They need to protect him more, which is another well-known story, but that regardless. I find it a little bit odd that every offseason the mantra is that Allen doesn't have the tools. Then going into every season he does. Then at the end of the season he doesn't again. And yet, the people making those decisions are experts and need to be trusted. Something's not adding up. Also, we may not end up having the best OL in the league, I doubt it'll be much into the top-10, but it's the best OL that McD's had on his watch. Kincaid's been raved about by everyone. We added several WRs via both FA and the Draft. We don't use our RBs, much less Hines out of the backfield, like McD said he would when we traded for him. He averaged nearly 60 catches, 20 1st-Downs, and 400 Yards/season with Indy. In 9 games here he had 5 catches, 3 1st-Downs, and 53 yards, a pace of about 10 catches for 100 yards and 6 1st-Downs per season, a small fraction of what he did in Indy, which is why they wanted him ironically, or at least what they stated. That's all on Dorsey and before him Daboll despite how everyone seems to think he's some kind of god, and despite leading the Giants to the 16th Scoring and 18th Yardage Offense last season, his best ever w/o Allen and even better than his first two seasons here with Allen. Daboll was horrible, absolutely horrible in 8 prior seasons as an OC including his first two here. At the end of the day, and despite the lack of willingness of many to accept even the possibility, the possibility does exist that coaching is what's holding this team back. I'm of the opinion that at the end of this season the favored narrative on McD, and quite possibly Beane, are going to be entirely different than they are now, and not favorable for them. Obviously I hope that's not the case, that we go to the Super Bowl and win, but if not, when are we going to start addressing the coaching situation rather than constantly blaming the talent, and just by the way, without including Beane in on that "talent" discussion. Many teams have done more with notably less offensive talent. I also happen to think that Diggs, Mr. Playoffs-No-Show, is overrated. Finally got that out. LOL The guy hasn't even been our best WR in the playoffs, not even close. How does that happen for a the most expensive player on the team after Allen. If Dorsey can figure out what RBs are, and how to spread the ball out and use high-percentage plays, with Allen we'd be fine. Maybe not #1 or #2 offense fine, but a good OC/HC should be able to figure out how to make that offense without Diggs go. Using your RBs for balance cannot be stressed enough. This lame argument that RBs aren't used today is nonsense to the extent that it's applied here in Buffalo. I don't think that people understand, by a country mile we were the worst team in the league in the utilization of RBs.

How many did $96M man Diggs have? I'll help ya out. He had 35 yards on 4 catches and a 40.0% catch %. Davis made $1M, had 34 yards on 2 catches, 50.0% catch%, and both went for 1st-Downs. Last season in the playoffs, $1M Davis had 8 catches for 147 Yards, and a catch % of 61.5%. Last season in the playoffs, $96M Diggs had 11 catches for 149 Yards, and a catch % of 57.9%. 6 of Davis' 8 catches went for 1st-Downs. Davis had 1 TD. 6 of Diggs' 11 catches went for 1st-Downs. Diggs had 0 TDs. When that's broken down per dollar paid, ... NOW, let's compare the last 2 seasons of playoffs. First last year, then combined. In the 2021 playoffs Davis had 10 catches for 242 Yards, and a catch % of 76.9%. In the 2021 playoffs Diggs had 6 catches for 67 Yards, and a catch % of 60.0% Only 2 of Diggs' 6 catches went for 1st-Downs. Diggs had 0 TDs. 5 of Davis' 10 catches went for 1st-Downs, 5 of Davis' catches went for TDs. In both of the last two seasons playoffs combined ... Diggs had 17 catches for 216 Yards, and a catch % of 58.6% Davis had 18 catches for 389 Yards, and a catch % of 69.2% Of Diggs 17 catches, 8 went for 1st-Downs, 0 went for TDs. Of Davis 18 catches, 11 went for 1st-Downs, 6 went for TDs. There's absolutely no comparison in the playoffs. Our problem has been in the playoffs, not the regular season. This season Davis makes $3M contrasted with Diggs' 4-year $96M contract. Sorry, but in the playoffs, for my money, I'm going with Davis. And let's skip the Davis only did what he did because of Diggs routine. Diggs didn't outperform Dais anywhere in the playoffs the past two seasons. No matter how it's sliced, our moneyman Diggs has come up drastically short in the playoffs for what he's getting paid. But to your other point, rookie TEs in particular rarely do much. If he goes over 500 Yards and 5 TDs it will end up having been a spectacular season for him comparatively speaking. It'd be foolish to think that he'll be the difference.

THAT right there! Unfortunately, the talent we have really doesn't have much to do with that. Dorsey's got more than almost all other OCs have at their disposal when Allen's factored into the mix. The talent isn't the issue this season. If Dorsey pulls his head out of his a$$ this could easily be the best offense in team history and be #1 in the league, perhaps by a decent margin.

People don't realize the extent to which Davis was open but Allen went to Diggs instead. I noticed this while watching a handful of videos that people here posted along with some others that spun off of that. Davis can't help it if Allen doesn't throw to him. Also, of the 12 catches he had on 3rd-down, all 12 went for a 1st-Down and averaged 24.8 yards. On 3rd-and-long he converted 8 of those. He easily could have also had the 1,200+ yards that Diggs had. People are way to hard on him. Not to mention, he seems to be the only one that isn't widely recognized as having had an injury, an ankle injury to boot.

A concerned fan. For many, they pray to the receiving god on game days after having too many Blues, Genny's, or other alcohol.

First of all I'm not sure where you come up with rudeness. Never was I intent on being rude, I always strive not to be. We have Allen who does everything, at times out of necessity as if he's playing sandlot ball. ... which is a reflection of a lack of guidance. (AKA coaching) We make the least use of our RBs in the entire league by a country mile. Our play calling is questionable at best. We have a head coach that once legitimately thought that Peterman was or best chance to win. If Allen's gonna be Allen, no, I don't see how we could be much worse offensively. This is exactly why I've said that if Dorsey does a great job this fall, we have the ability to be the best Offense in team history. Under any circumstances, which also means under any coach, I can't imagine us finishing worse than 5th offensively this season. While on the sidelines two seasons ago, I also envision no other coach allowing "13 Seconds," not one.

Is there another choice!

That's never prevented the hostilities, it's probably hastened them. It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. A thread isn't a thread until the vitriol springs forth. LOL

ROFLMAO!! AND the Wing Eating champion!

That wouldn't be any fun, the hostilities haven't even started yet.

Come on, McD has hired people he has connections with over the best more than once. Daboll's offenses before here in 6 seasons averaged in the high 20s, I'd guess 28th or so. Best? Please. Dorsey was the best? Talk about tim foil hat stuff. I'd also seriously question his judgement there as well.

Allow me to answer that with a question. Are you, or those referenced, saying that it's close to optimal?

Have you looked at Daboll's record as an OC prior to coming here, as well as in his first two seasons here? He was awful. His highest rank in those 6 seasons in either scoring or yardage offense was 20th. He ranked 32nd or DFL at least twice and most of the time he was in the bottom handful. That's not someone that even remotely threatens your job. Dorsey? Does anything need to be said. Frasier wasn't as bad but he was hardly good. The last DC gig he had prior to coming here his D ranked 17th in yardage and 25th in scoring. He chose 'em. Why can be debated, but what can't really be debated is that none of them when they were hired were on anyone's radar for head coach roles. When he chose Beane as his GM (has that ever happened before in the NFL?) Beane also wasn't on anyone's radar to be GM. He owes everything to McD. What were the odds that McD would have chosen someone with no loyalty or sense of commitment to him? I don't think good. As to coaches, IMO any OC with a positive track record wouldn't do worse with Allen here. The people claiming that it could be worse offensively, I'm not sure why they think that. Maybe we should ask them the next time it comes up.

The pattern(s) is/are clear. The question is how long do you allow them to continue if there is no improvement? This "they'll eventually get it right" mantra is absurd. These aren't pop-warner kids here, these are highly paid coaches. Their apologists will talk about how they're "experts," but sorry, experts don't make "13 Seconds" types of mistake. To the contrary. It's like anything else, when there are enough initial followers, everyone else will become a follower too, regarding fan & media opinion in the matter. This also explains why once it gets to that point you'd think that the outgoing person just burned down the house of many poster given the comments that arise. That emotional pendulum swing ... LOL It's very amusing to see.

I don't think that you're a massive homer at all. FWIW I do think that you lean towards the more patient however. I lean towards the less patient. We've both stated our reasons as to why. ... and for right or wrong both.

Indeed. Many really take that viewpoint tho. Yeah, we were -57 in PD, good for 21st in the league. We've had much better teams in "the past 20 years" that haven't made the playoffs with a similar or equal record. That's an interesting question the answer to which always frustrates me. To begin with, I wouldn't have hired McD to begin with and was also vocal in expressing my disatisfaction, so the question kind of saddles me with someone else's baggage. Here's my philosophy on coaching changes, in short, namely to plan for them. By that I mean don't wait for the fans and media to force your hand, which is when you have to choose from "who's available." That's happened a number of times to us in the past. The choices are rarely optimal then. e.g., we now know, at least those that are being honest, that McD may not be capable of getting us there. I and others had that suspicion after the 2021 season playoffs just over a year ago. So what I would do is to assess why, in this case it's pretty universally accepted that we need an Offensive, not a Defensive, minded coach. So start looking for who's available and when they are. The better candidates always get the most interest. In the case of right now, I would consider ditching McD if we get humiliatingly outsted from the playoffs in the D-round again after losing to an inferior team or as a result of poor coaching. If we go to the AFC CG and play (and coach) our best but lose, that would be different. So I'd consider the available candidates right now, as well as keeping an eye on OCs that have at least two seasons of success going into this season. Then once I knew that I wanted to replace that coach, I'd have already spoken with the replacement and then fire the existing coach. i.e., make sure you align your strategy with availability, something that we've traditionally done the opposite of. I take a similar approach to the Draft(s). Here's the rub for us, Beane owes his tenure as a GM to McD. McD has carefully chosen assistants that won't threaten his tenure as a head coach as well. I question whether that's in the best interests of the team or merely in his own best interests. I'm not sure I see Beane firing McD since, strangely and perhaps the first time ever in the NFL, the head coach hired the GM, both having been from this ill-fated Carolina connection. In the same way, if Dorsey were to get fired after the season, I don't expect McD to hire an OC that could easily replace him, I'd expect another internal promotion or some other OJT type bases upon McD's MO. So IMO that catalyst will likely be Pegula. Hopefully he's not too preoccupied with his personal matters to take that interest. Both McD and Beane are signed thru the '25 season, three more seasons. I'm not sure how this plays out. IMO Beane's hardly vindicated here either. It's possible that both go, but who knows what's going thru Pegula's mind. I do think that at some point it dampens fans' emotions to continue to lose in the early rounds of the playoffs year after year with a QB like Allen on the roster. I have difficulty believing that this does not impact the players/team as well. Several players, including Allen, have outs for after the '24 season in their contracts. I don't see Allen ever leaving Buffalo, but who knows, if a Ring is on his mind and he doesn't think he can get one here, ... We'll see. Who knows, maybe we win it all this season and we can all die happy. Like many, all I want is one. But if things don't go well, I think the fans are going to start getting louder about that all too and join the national and then even regional media is calling for a change.

Agree. It would seem that they fully understand how much better the D played with Miller in there. Since Miller's status is dicey, since it's a big IF that he'll still be 100% at 34, it makes sense that Floyd was an insurance policy for Miller. Floyd at 31 may be able to provide what Miller did at 33.

Point taken, but that's being a bit dramatic. We won 7 of our 9 games against teams that finished with 4, 5, or 6 wins. The other two were against the Chiefs (Alex Smith and a 15th ranked D) and Atlanta (with chokemaster Ryan in one of his worst seasons ever). Hardly impressive no matter how it's spun. Then we needed Cincy's help to make the playoffs where we lost to a Blake Bortles led Jax after scoring a whopping 3 points, one of our worst games on the season.