PBF81

Thanks! I'm not sure about answering adequately, but the question is asked for purposes of ascertaining the reasons for the irrational fear and apprehension that Pegula and certainly many fans have about trying to improve. For years I held the notion that Belichick was only as good as he was because of Brady and that without Brady he wouldn't have had the rep that he has much less the track record. His performance in what now, 11 seasons, without Brady, paints him among the worst, not the best. Horrific record sans Brady, only two playoff appearances, 1-2 in postseason play, etc. There's a reason why Charlie Weiss, Josh McDaniels, and Bill O'Brien never distinguished themselves in any significant way other than when they had Brady. They were mostly bad otherwise. If it were really coaching with Brady, that wouldn't have been the case. IMO 8 games is high, but I would say that for sure we've owned Miami since Allen's been here because of him. That's 2 games/season on average. I'll look at the rest in terms of whether we'd have won or lost with some of our drought era QBs over Allen. We'd have lost the KC game w/o him, the Philly game, the Tampa game, the Charger game to start. That's 6 games right there that were Allen, nothing else. So if McD had one of our drought era QBs, Taylor for example, he'd have been 6-11 last season. You really think that there's a risk that if we got an offensive expert as our HC that we'd be 6-11 or thereabouts? It's not much different in other seasons. Allen has carried this team. Furthermore, it's quite safe to say that McD would have few if any playoff wins under his belt w/o Allen who does everything come playoff time as none of McD's players show up with even a sniff of consistency. The irony is that Gabe was probably the one that did to the greatest extent, which again, isn't very much, but that KC game alone ... We don't beat the Skylar Thompson Fins, we don't beat the Colts, and if we don't beat the Colts we don't play the Ravens; It's highly questionable whether we beat the Steelers, none of the KC playoff games are even close, and the New England game is quite possibly close, with Mac Jones playing QB. So without Allen here, do we even make the playoffs much less win any of them? For sure McD's playoff track record would be garbage. That's what we're afraid of trying to upgrade? Without Allen here I see some of our worst drought era records and few if any winning seasons, certainly no 10+ win seasons.

Yeah, I know, you're always posting in good humor. I realize that. You know me. LOL I'm hoping so, just not within the next 12. On the football side tho, ... ..., allow me to ask, how many games per season on average do you think that we win because of Allen, simply because he's our QB? I've asked this of Gunner and others before but they won't answer the question. If they disagree, then they can answer it. LOL

What if .... nah, forget it. Seriously though, what are the odds of an Allen-led team every doing much below 9-8? I'd say pretty close to nil. What are the odds of someone that has a clue in offense, as opposed to McD who has absolutely none, and his choice of OCs having to operate under his grand ever-changing now complimentary football scheme, not being as good as that. Sometimes worrying about failure holds people back from succeeding. Happens all the time in the business world. I did not, spell-checker did. I bow my head in shame regardless. No Wings for me anytime soon, and when I'm allowed to have them again, only ranch for a year while I'm on probation. 😞

What if Allen's legs fall off midway on a big TD run this season? Same type of question. 🙄

That's funny, I thought that Brady's offense was as predictable as it could have been by season's end. ... oh, that's right, it wasn't Brady's offense at that point, it was still Dorsey's. Brady's offense was in the Dallas game in which Dallas came in flat and any QB in the league would have won that game, Philly, and of course Brady's inaugural Jets game. Dorsey should never have gotten the job to begin with. Neither should Brady have. You and I disagree on the extent to which McD, the head coach, controls the rest of the team, so that will be the difference in each of our angles. Common sense there. More will clear up over time however. A pattern has definitely come into view. I would have at least been interested to see how Dennison could do here now with Allen. He obviously predated Allen, but in Denver, with four different QBs in five years, including Manning at his DFL bottom-dwelling worst, and average talent otherwise at best, managed to produce average offenses with stiff QBs. (Simien, Manning in his last season who was horrific, Cutler, and Plummer) In four seasons in Houston he produced three top-10 offenses with Schaub at QB. Matt Schaub. That's notably better than what any of our OCs have done outside of their body of work with Allen. It's a pissing into the wind argument to suggest that he couldn't have gotten more out of this offense than our OCs to date. He was marginally better than Daboll in Daboll's first two seasons here. As to Daboll, you know, or should, that collegiate performance is all but irrelevant to NFL performance in terms of coaching. You are definitely more optimistic than I am, but we'll see how it shakes out. Bickering and arguing doesn't change a thing. LOL As to Brady, given that this was McD's 3rd choice, if he doesn't answer the mail, at some point the top dog needs to start being held accountable. That season should be this one. Brady had half a season to get his feet firmly planted and a full offseason to make whatever changes he wanted. They obviously really wanted Coleman, which IMO is again going to go down as a Watkins/Jones/Hardy type of blunder, so we'll see. As I've stated before, this is what they wanted apparently. So let's see if their vision works, or not. It's not as if we have a choice. LOL The fulcrum around which the pro v. anti McD debate takes place appears to be the extent to which McD's success hinges upon Allen. As you hinted with Brady above, we will find out more that it was truly Allen that carried the water in that arrangement once McD is no longer here and another head coach has done at least equally as well. Either way, for anyone to suggest that we've gotten the most out of this offense that could have been gotten, is incredibly weak. As to McD, he can't even get average out of his defenses come playoff time, which in and of itself should be enough to answer the Allen or McD question above.

Well you're one of 'em. I don't "hate" McD, but after 8 seasons of little more than overachievement in the regular season matched with underachievement, largely due to coaching blunders, otherwise most particularly his own personalized defenses, in the playoffs, I have no difficulty setting aside the positive to be able to clearly see the rest of the forest. Also, this notion that most other coaches would have an Allen-led team floundering quite likely is ill-reasoned out and childish as well since he does everything in the playoffs anyway.

The good guys.

Come on now. He had worse w/o Allen in 2017 on that merit alone. lt's also highly arguable that it was worse in '18 & '19 too. He's going to actually have to get more from the sum of the parts than the whole this season though for us to win the division. The question is going to be how does Josh perform under Brady. There are two general schools of thought there. The first is that how the team played under Brady last season isn't going to mimic how they play under him this season much at all. The second is that his offense will be more akin to what we saw last season under him. Those that take the former view seem to want to ascribe to Brady everything positive that happened to this team on his watch, even things like the play of the D implicitly. At the same time in response to the challenges accurately noting how our offense sputtered in the last several games of the season, they'll simultaneously argue that Brady was still running Dorsey's offense. LOL

Thanks. Was outside most of the day. Went to a ballgame. Was great.

Answer my question first, then I'll answer yours. I'll simplify it for you. Let's say that Allen predated McD. Whomever the coach is after a year or two with Allen gets fired. Do you hire McD? So now it's would you have hired McD, and why.

You may be in luck this season. A good coach would win this division decisively this year with the roster we have. Yes you do, it's easy to do as fans of teams, that's rampant. Trying to separate one's emotions from reality can be difficult.

The strength of this team come playoff time isn't even the Offense, it's Allen. Our offense is nowhere close to optimal under McD. This is a Brady/Belichick arrangement except that at least Belichick's Ds didn't completely fold in the playoffs.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, please stop turning this into being about a single game. I was simply responding to this entire no-fault mantra for McD in this game. Everyone knows about McD's chokes in the playoffs, except for those here that will defend him into perpetuity with Allen before they realize that with any other QB he'd suck.

It's a very fair question. Sorry you struggle with it. I fully understand why you and everyone else does. Not one person here has answered it. That's disingenuousness at its finest. Just because it happened doesn't mean that it should have been conceivable. But hye, you're on the right track despite your inability to separate your emotions from your objectivity. Typically when "inconceivable" things occur, people start asking tough questions. McD's got more lives than a cat. Not to worry, it'll start clearing up for you this upcoming season. I have zero difficulty already seeing the excuses lining up here like people in line for free cheese to go along with their whine.

You answer this question and I'll answer yours. Suppose Allen had predated McD, then our coach was fired. Would you have even considered hiring McD at that point? Why?

Up by 10 on the very drive/play before that, with the fans going absolutely bonkers, in that playoff environment, against Skylar Thompson, yes, yes it is inconceivable, quite inconceivable in fact, the rest of your emotionally laden tantrum aside.

LOL No, you don't get it. You'll defend McD regardless of anything that provides reasons as to why he doesn't cut it in the playoffs. When your team goes up by 10 late in the 3rd, following a 68-yard TD drive, then, as a "defensive minded head coach," allow the opponent who's headed by a siht QB that's lucky to even be in the NFL, in his second start as a rookie and which hasn't done a damn thing all game, post the best TD drive of the game on either side to bring the game back to within three with 10 minutes remaining in the game, in that playoff environment in which the fans did everything they could, you bear at least some responsibility for a game that should have been a blowout and not even have been close. It's not as if McD's playoff prowess is even above-average much less exceptional apart from that single game, it's not, it's miserable. How anyone can possibly defend McD's coaching in the playoffs is simply bizarre given the facts. It's one thing to defend his regular season, but in the playoffs he sucks. His team very rarely comes together as a whole and has at times been unprepared, typically being out-coached by decent opposing coaches, even in playoff wins in games that we had no business allowing to be as close as they were. There hasn't been a single player, not one, who in his tenure here has even remotely been consistent in the playoffs, and given the hype about our D and all the talent it has, that's particularly on him since he's the creator of the D. ... besides Allen that is.

Great question, but when it comes down to the END of the game and something like that happens, it's relevant, not irrelevant as many like to make it. As implied, Skylar Thompson is a nothing QB that's lucky to be playing in the NFL as a third-stringer. He brought absolutely nothing special or any special skillset to the NFL as the 15th from last pick of the Draft in '22 and was projected as an undrafted FA at least by the major draft outlets with many not even reviewing him. Miami had no business even getting on the board much at that game, the atmosphere was insane, at home, with our team easily the better team. Had Thompson had to start all season for Miami they'd have been fortunate to win 4 or 5 games. The fact that he was able to mount such a drive, as a rookie in his second start given the above, in that atmosphere, and looking like a seasoned NFL starting QB, at that point in the game is indicting to say the least. McD has a bad habit of turtle-shelling and choking at or near the end of playoff games.

Maybe the fact that it was Skylar Thompson on the other side, who isn't likely to start another game in the NFL, in his second and only other NFL start, led the Fins to a 75-yard drive and TD going 4 of 6 for 59 yards on the drive to bring the game to within 3 in the 4th Quarter. Hardly a feather in anyone's defensive cap. The fact that a Skylar Thompson team even scored more than 17 points, FGs or otherwise, is ridiculous, and at home for us in Buffalo.

You touched on something here. It shouldn't matter if it's Allen, as I've pointed out elsewhere, what's needed for us is an OC (or HC) that can see the forest for the trees as the adage goes, to piece together our offense with Allen as the centerpiece, to get every bit out of it that can be gotten. Reid and others that understand offense that well do that, we never have under Allen. QBs simply won't have that perspective. Allen's personal preferences are nice, but they've failed us now. Brady didn't save the season, a defense that gave up only 15 PPG average in our 6 wins did. That should be obvious. If we had allowed the same vs. the Pats, Bengals, and Broncos, we'd have been 8-2 at the point that Dorsey was replaced by Brady. Why this eludes so many remains befuddling.

That's too bad. Sorry, but you look at Singletary's aggregate stats, and 2023 gamelog if you really need to, and you tell me what's missing from your analysis? They even provide the data for in there. With touch search function shouldn't take but a few seconds. This is elementary research/analysis, as elementary as it gets. If you're hanging up here ... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SingDe00.htm

Which is interesting since we cannot seem to beat anything but 6 & 7 seeds in the playoffs, with one exception, a 5th seed on a team that simply can't score in the playoffs with Jackson as their QB. Under Jackson, the Ravens have averaged a mere 16 PPG in the playoffs over 7 games, 13 PPG in 6 of those games. Also, that we can beat KC in the regular season (3-1) but not in the playoffs. (0-3) That's ridiculous! To start, if we can go 3-0 vs. the Chiefs in the regular season, it's 100% defeatist to assume that we can't do the same in the playoffs. The entire difference there is Reid v. McD/(Daboll/Dorsey/Brady/whichever stiff is next after Brady gets the scapegoat treatment by McD). Honestly, what you're implying there, which is the truth accidentally, is that McD simply isn't a good playoffs coach.

13-Seconds and the Cincy game defense were hardly execution. The first cost us the game after the offense had won it. That's pretty well known by now. Again, fans need to learn to separate the playoffs from the regular season. Other than for this past season there are few complaints about our regular seasons. The playoffs are a whole different thing. That's where the better coaches earn their stripes.

Let's just drop this between us. You've already predetermined your position. No need to continue. It should be fairly obvious however.