PBF81

Fun to think about, but if we were 12-0 by then, we'd have to own all the tiebreakers and no other AFCE team could be better than 7-5. If we were 10-2, we'd still need all the division tiebreakers and no other team could be better than 5-7. Just sayin'

So your implication then is that there were no better people more competent and more accomplished than Washington, Holcomb, Dorsey and Shula. That's fine, I simply disagree. Again, it's also not some far fetched strange position to hold, which is part of the primary point here. But you do you.

The entire division has a tough schedule, ours the toughest. We all play the AFCW and NFCE We play Cincy, Jax, and Tampa Miami plays Baltimore, Tennessee, and Carolina The Jets play Cleveland, Houston, and Atlanta NE plays Pittsburgh, Indy, and the Saints Advantage Jets NE is like an STD that you can't be gotten rid of. They weren't good last season but still managed to finish 8-9. They're probably the worst team in the division but they can play spoiler. Should be interesting.

Not the point. Frazier leaving was hardly a bold move by McD that grabbed the bull by the horns while assessing responsibility for our abysmal playoff performance(s). Let's not circumvent the original point. And no, it sounds like more of a very weak action by someone that's supposed to be ensuring that this team puts its best foot forward season to season and week to week, particularly in the playoffs. This just in, but Frazier's been here for 6 seasons. If Frazier was the issue, why did it take so long, and then why was the entire thing half shrouded in secrecy. Either way, so you then think that firing a position coach for a unit that's been the team's strength showed top-notch resolve and determination in correcting our playoff woes? LOL ... really? Because that's the implication. That's fine if so, I have no issues with it other than being laughable as I view it. Again, I'm hardly the only one on that as many called it out. IMO it was a weak response by a head coach that clearly didn't want to implicate his own DC, for who knows which of several logical reasons.

OK, then by implication, Dorsey's going to be making the entirety of key decisions offensively speaking while McD and Washington make all of the key defensive decisions. The point was that it's not going to be asst. coaches like Austin Gund making them offensively or Jaylon Finner on defense. The question still stands. I think that McD is self-evident too. Built a good culture, loses in the early rounds, doesn't have what it takes in the most important games, as I mentioned even Maiorana sums up nicely in today's piece; (aka not just me with this take, and far from it) As to Dorsey, "successful" is relative, but when you have Allen it's difficult to not be "successful." The question is did he perform at optimal levels, and I haven't seen anyone argue that he did. But what's Dorsey's track record of success otherwise? While you may be inspired by last season's performance by him, many still have questions, myself included. That's hardly an unreasonable take. As to Washington, you answered my question directly re: him. The more direct answer, per yourself, was that he's done absolutely nothing that should inspire confidence. Whether that remarkably changes this season, or whether McD's management of the D ends up being better than it was in Carolina and supercedes any influeces of Washington (or Holcomb by implication) remains to be seen. Either way, I don't think that that take by myself is so ridiculous as to warrant being blocked from the site as Primetime101 says. So those are the only two options in your world? Hire A, completely non-inspiring coaches, or ... B, coaches that single-handedly won Super Bowls. Noted. Got it! It's no wonder we have these petty arguments. LOL

I'll tell you what, let's simply cut to the chase. Here is who's on staff in our coaching dept.: Sean McDermott, Head Coach: Defensive Coordinator @ Carolina from 2011 – 2016 Ken Dorsey, Offensive Coordinator: QB Coach and Scout @ Carolina from 2011-2016 Eric Washington, Senior Defensive Asst./DL: DL Coach @ Carolina from 2011-2016 Mike Shula, Senior Offensive Asst.: Offensive Coordinator and QB Coach @ Carolina from 2011-2016 Al Holcomb, Senior Defensive Asst.: Linebackers Coach @ Carolina from 2013-2016 No matter how you slice it, those are the top two guys on offense: Dorsey & Shula, and McD, Washington, and Holcomb on D. Collectively or individually, they will be making ALL key decisions for the team on the field. What, in their primary roles, has each achieved, top honors, during their tenure in the NFL? Then say what inspires you about those achievements in their now leading us this season? That's a more substantive approach than a lady's tea argument and airing of grievances session.

Well great, but that's all nothing but opinion Whether you, I, or anyone else likes it or not, the top five decision-makers & coaches here, four without question, now, were with McD in Carolina, which is a fact. In Carolina two were directly under McD on D. It's also a fact that they've achieved nothing in either location and underachieved in both teams' biggest games and have otherwise ushered their teams to early playoff exits. You will spin it anyway that you want But you skip the point, which is that between your take and mine, mine is based upon those two facts, yours is based upon mitigating those two facts and assuming something that as of yet had no basis in reality. They have no other significant body of work, which quite frankly only reinforces my position, not yours. IOW, while you may not agree with it, hardly a big shock, LOL, for anyone to claim that it's completely unsubstantiated is wrong. In fact, Sal Maiorana's article today addresses one of those points in the same vein, so it's obviously not as charged.

LOL, OK, I can think of one, recently, that you gave me something other than an X. I was actually surprised. LOL When someone X's just about everything that someone else posts, then it makes it's own statement. How about this, which of the points on that list are so outrageous that they match your description? And why?

I'd be curious to see that laundry list. I'm happy to go over how I see them. I'll post a few of my understandings that I realize aren't popular, they're hardly on an island and they're hardly all critical. A. IMO McD's not the coach to take us to the promised land. I'm far from the only one that believes that at this point in time. Yes, I understand the "culture" that he's built, but culture is one thing, a championship is another. I often think that many cannot distinguish between the two. But I also think that this season provides fewer options for him to shed blame should that repeat itself. B. Gabe Davis is better than most say. Also unpopular. C. Our LB unit is questionable at best. Again, far from the only one saying that. Milano's the only proven LB there. D. More recently, no one was held accountable for our flop in the playoffs this past seaon. Salgado, a coach involved with our best unit on the team during his stint here, was fired, but no one else. That's factual, whether populare or unpopular, in the eyes of the beholder. E. We have the potential to be the best Bills' offense in franchise history this season. Standing in the way of or aiding that is Dorsey. F. Our WRs are more than enough for any good QB to post a great season. G. We have no premiere pass-rushers without Miller, who's not likely to ever return to the form he was in, with history, relating to age, not on his side. H. Our coaching staff, the top part of it anyway, the decision-makers, are essentially now a transplanted unit from McD's time in Carolina. That's also factual. Whether some view that as a good thing or not, again, is in the eyes of the beholder. This beholder sees a coaching staff that fell short against one of the worst QBs in the league that season in SB 50, and one that cost us an AFC Championship and quite possibly an NFL Championship, and that have otherwise lost 4 Divisional playoff games and 2 Wild Card playoff games, generally speaking to teams not as good. I. Allen does way too much and "covers a multitude of sins" otherwise. Hardly unique there. J. Our designed running game from the RBs is underutilized. Same there, hardly unique. K. Our OL may be the best it's been in years. L. I'm not expecting Kincaid as a rookie to shatter the rookie records, especially under Dorsey who's still in OJT mode. Other than guessing, like everyone else, who's going to be cut or the like, I'm not seeing which many of these are so unbearable to read or consider. Help me out. I mean which are entirely not possible or false? Otherwise, which of the many in that laundry list that are so hard to swallow did I miss? Again, sorry that you're so upset about these. Truly. It's hardly my intention to piss anyone off.

Your call. I'm sorry that my posts irritate you so much, really. Re: narratives, I think you've got it backwards. I don't do narratives, I challenge them. They're narratives because they're popular. I'm not very big on "everyone says ..." kinda stuff, simply because "everyone says." More stuff that's said league-wide every seaosn does not happen rather than happens, team and player(s) alike. Maybe wait until the end of the season to see whether or not they turn out to be true and therefore valid? If they don't, then feel free to hammer me all you want on them. I'd even encourage it and would probably get a good chuckle myeslf on them. Until then, I always back up what my takes are, whether you and others like it or not, which I can do nothing about. Besides, it's just discussion. If my posts irritate you so much, and I mean this sincerely, then why read 'em. It's borderline stalking otherwise. Gunnerbill arbitrarily "X's" every one of my posts that he seems to see. LOL I anticipate it when I see a notification from him. There are posters that I won't read, I don't have them on ignore, but I simply skip over them. I don't understand the seeming animus. I always try to answer posts directed at me, which some consider to be bad form, but IMO it would be bad form to ignore them. I deliberately go out of my way often to avoid getting into exchanges that I know are purely argumentative with no genuine exchange of ideas. I don't always succeed, but I do my best. We all want the same thing, or most of us anyway, which is a Championship. Although some have openly expressed simple contentment with winning seasons and playoff appearances without ever winning the big game, but that's fine. I don't take issue with it if that's what they're satisfied with. Cheers! Go BILLS!!!

That's an interesting thought! That correlation never crossed my mind. My first thought is why is Edmunds not an attacking, vicious, hitting, intuitive, tough defender when he was at VA Tech? It seems as if the consensus is that it was his role, which implies how it was assigned by the coaches. Seems to me good coaches could have changed his role and put him more in a position to succeed, to whatever extent they had envisioned. I'm firmly of the opinion that the reason why he hasn't been as good as people think he should have been, was because he was being asked to do the job of two LBs much of the time, largely because they've never been able to find another, a third, starting LB, after Lorax left. Prior to that time we had 3 starting LBs. I'm also not convinced that he's not suited to McD's new system, whatever that will be. One of the traits on Edmunds coming out of college was his versatility including "attack" implicitly. It would seem that he's gone because the team had to decide between Oliver and him financially. I'd have opted for Edmunds only due to the massive hole(s) it leaves us, but that's irrelevant. IMO he'll be much better where he is now and will excel there, ... also irrelevant. Here's the thing about McD's new D being "attacking," that I've been asking what that even means. Defenses entire definition is to attack, not pull back on the throttle like we've done in our biggest games. Either way, one needs the talent to pull it off, whatever the scheme/style. I'm not sure that we have that on D. We don't have any pass-rushers that are proven consistent in that role. Rousseau faded after the first four games, dramatically. It's almost not possible (never say never) to get the value (contract) we've put into Miller out of him at this point. Consider all of the best Ds historically, you know them. But to me it's a little bit like a catch-22, they were great because they had talent spread out all across the defense both starting and depth. The "style" only optimized that talent. To me a great DC would be able to change up his scheme to match his talent. Do we have that talent at say MLB? Completely unknown. Klein's obviously not it. Right now Bernard's the likely starter in the spot, but last year's rookie performance by him is hardly inspiring. I realize that the narrative on rookie draftee Williams has him potentially playing the position, but the reality there is that his draft previews all discount any notions that he's capable of taking on that role, he's more suited to back-up Milano at WLB, but we need starters, which is my theory as to why we only play 2 LBs. Will that change? Who knows, we'll find out soon though. We can talk about how he'll be what McD needs at MLB, but it's all talk until it happens, and given Beane's draft history, it's rare for him to land those types of players. I have no idea what their draft process is analytically speaking, but it's not working to that extent. We always have to sign free-agents for our top roles. Diggs, Miller, Poyer, Hyde, Morse. As to attacking, so we've just touched on the LBs, but how about the DL. What's changed since last season, effectively? Not much. Oliver got paid, but he's the same player. I anticipate that he'll improve as he enters his prime, but it's not guaranteed, and the opposite could happen as well, particularly in a new system, although that would seem to favor him. We brought in Poona Ford, great depth but he won't move the needle and it wouldn't surprise me if he gets cut. He hasn't exactly distinguished himself otherwise. It's quite likely that at 34 now coming off of that knee injury that Miller's finished as an above-average player much less as a premier player. We'll be lucky if he's an average starter later on this season. He may shatter paradigms, but what are the odds of that happening. Only one player last season at 34 finished with double-digit sacks and that was an anomaly. Of all the players that logged 4 or more sacks last season, only three, those three, were 34 or older. Hughes (9) and Brandon Graham (11) were both 34. Calais Campbell (5.5) was 36. Graham was the outlier, but he was also surrounded by talent that Miller won't have, in fact, Miller's supposed to be that talent that brings the others up, not the one that needs it around him to succeed. As to the secondary, the hope is that White returns to All-Pro form. Big questionmark there. Will he do that? Will he simply return to be a top CB but not in the top-10 say, or will he simply be an average or slightly better-than-average CB. We don't know. Anyway, we could go on ... Hyde's back Poyer's knee Allen's elbow Hamlin of course although he's a backup. One would think that regular rotation of players is part of that "attacking defense" that you cite, but we've been doing that under Frazier as well, so that part of it is not new. Will Oliver for example be expected to bump up his ~ 50% snap count to 60-70%? How would he be if so. Also, concerning me the most is that our coaching staff, again, now pretty much fully transplanted under McD from Carolina, has never achieved anything significant. Their trend is to underachieve in the biggest of games; Super Bowl 50, 2021 AFC CG. Otherwise lose in the D/WC rounds while typically underachieving. We will hope for the best, but saying something is one thing, actually getting it done is another. If anything, whether people want to hear it or not, we've been more sizzle than steak in the playoffs under McD with Allen performing the way he has, and that's what it's all about, how you perform against the best in the playoffs. Go Bills!!! Time for actual football.

Whatever, you guys really like to argue the point contrarily that McD has never taken responsibility for his team's miscues other than indirectly via statements that leave people believing that it was someone else's fault but his. Most other coaches wouldn't have escaped the scrutiny that he's been able to successfully avoid. Again, this season, as someone said, will finally be one that tells us what's going on. If the D slips tremendously, as I expect it to, then we have more info as to what's really going on. Time will tell, no need to argue or bicker. We'll very clearly know come January. And if we continue more on McD's ways of playoff ousters under his guidance as both DC and HC, then that will provide even more info. 12 seasons. 6 as DC, 6 as HC. 8 playoff appearances. 2 Wild Card Round losses, 4 Divisional Round losses, one horrific CC loss, and a Super Bowl loss to a team led by one of the worst QBs in that given season. Something's gotta change, and it's gotta change this season. If it doesn't the narrative momentum shift should be significant. Anything that I have to say doesn't matter whatsoever.

LOL, because yeah, firing the S's Coach was great corrective action. I can see how one would need to be Bill Polian to figure that out. LOL

Love the way you absolutely leapfrog the original argument. LOL In essence, the point that I made makes even more sense in that light. You guys seem so eager to be right and win an argument that you continue to shoot yourselves in the foot. See comment above. Yes, please, I'd absolutely love to reconvene as the season wears on. So far McD's proven nothing other than "building a culture." He can't win when it matters most and on top of that hinders his own team when it matters most. We'll see how things shake out. Then we'll see whether or not he throws someone else under the bus. Let's both bookmark this post and reconvene towards the end of the season.

I don't think it's the wrong example at all. Someone should have been fired after that, OR McD should have come clean that it was truly his fault instead of "accepting responsibility" while implying that it was someone else's, thereby hanging Frazier out to dry like he did. But to pick on the coach whose entire starting unit was unavailable to start in 20 of 32 starts between them, while still performing well with backups, to me is unconscionable. It also reinforces the point made. Your point completely ignores that and the original point that I made. It doesn't matter that McD gave him a shot, he's also given a bunch of coaches that haven't anteed up shots, but they were from Carolina with him and they weren't fired. And I mean really, what, it was Salgado's coaching that caused us to lose? LOL That's a ridiculous proposition. IMO McD doesn't have what it takes to get rid of coaches that aren't performing. This season he has most of his former staff at Carolina under him, he's successfully transition their coaching staff from 2011-2016 to Buffalo for the most part. Count me in among those that think that this is closer to not working out for him than it is for working out for him, but this season will certainly tell. At least it seems to be a growing mindset that should we underperform again that there won't be anywhere for him to assess blame besides himself. ... which will be refreshing if he can't perform up to standards and the talent that he has. By implication you see that the Safeties coach was more responsible than any other for our poor playoffs performance. I have no idea how that's rational. Otherwise, see my post above.

Winning does cure all, but in today's league you need to a great QB to be playoffs competitive. After the Allen era, other than for the fact that we've had only two great QBs during the Bills' modern NFL era, and Kelly transcends that even, unless we have one that makes us playoffs competitive, I'm not sure that I see ticket sales going very well given PSLs and prices. Keep in mind however that PSLs are "recyclable," meaning that the team can end up charging them more than once for STHs that relinquish their tix. Good luck on getting them again if we're only average or worse, but then presumably the single game tix will become more available then, ... not that those would necessarily be all that popular, just sayin'.

Agreed But IMO they're going to lose a whole lot more than the 10k seats that they'll lose. Also, once Allen's tenure ends, IMO good luck then. Green Stamps, ... LOL, I know you're not in your 30s.

LOL, seriously? How about firing Jim Salgado after our playoff losses this season, the Safeties coach, who did nothing wrong in his coaching tenure here, his only stint I think. ... other than not ever having coached in Carolina that is. Hell, he's arguably had the best unit on the team on McD's watch. And 13-seconds? LMAO What a wimp on that! Saying he takes responsibility with strong undertones that he wasn't really responsible. As someone else has pointed out several times, if Frasier was that big of an issue on defense, then why was he here for 6 seasons as the DC. So either McD's not competent in that, or he too threw Frasier under the bus. We'll never know because despite the "high character" veil, he doesn't practice it himself when discussing the team. We'll see what happens this season otherwise, but IMO the expectations are too lofty.

Well, OK, but that applies to all teams. No team gets to play only poor offensive teams. ... or poor defensive teams for that matter. Also to be fair, Atlanta's offense averaged 11th in scoring O in those six seasons. Otherwise, in the 12 games that he played against Carolina, his D allowed an average of 28.6 PPG against them. Their scoring averages in those seasons were 34.2 in 2011, 28.8, 25.9, 25.1, 25.5, and 29.3 in 2016. So McD parred at best, but underachieved in general. In half of those games NO scored over 30 points, 28 and 27 in two others. Against the Falcons in 12 games his D allowed an average of 22.1 PPG, but that includes two games where it allowed 0 and 3 points. In five of their 7 losses his D was directly responsible for those losses allowing 30, 31, 31, 33, and 48. Atlanta in those seasons averaged 25.1, 26.2, 22.1, 23.8, 21.2, and 33.8. In the 33.8 season McD's D allowed 33 and 408 yards, and 41 points and 571 yards. So considering that he really wasn't impressive.

Yeah, ya got me. I guess. STs are out for me, if for no other reason than the principle of PSLs. Full disclosure, I haven't been a STH in many years. I don't see the new prices going over very well however. Many here have already said that they're out based upon the forecasted prices in their previously released "survey." And frankly, now with Pegula's new emphasis on the "business side" of things, I don't see much relenting on those PSLs or prices.

Honestly, we just drafted Kincaid in round 1 and have two other "steals" from round 5 this and last year. Davis is the only WR that Beane's drafted that's still on the team. We paid much for Diggs and decently for Harty. Let's give some of our rookies a chance.

All I know is that I'm awaiting the new PSL & Ticket prices. I have a feeling that's going to generate some interesting sentiments here.

Regarding that bolded part, one would think that, but three more years of extensions says differently, A, and B, IMO he'll live off of the "he got us out of our playoff drought" narrative for at least a decade total, which means until his extension finishes and he's played in the new stadium at least once. Talk about a teflon coach. While IMO it's not a good sign, he's successfully now imported almost his entire coaching staff from when he was in Carolina, not merely on the D side either, but Washington, Holcomb, and Babich were all there with him directly under him on D. I don't see what all the hype was there as his results were both inconsistent and otherwise patently average on the whole at best. In the one season that he finished with the 6th ranked Scoring and 6th ranked Yardage Ds, but he also had the easiest schedule that any team has had from 2011 to last season, 12 seasons. Carolina only faced two teams with double-digit wins during the regular season, both were 10-6 and both were wild-cards that season. His defenses at Carolina, with the help of the aforementioned coaching assistants now transplanted here, averaged 13th in Yardage D with the Scoring D lagging that at 17th on average. His last season there was his second worst at Carolina, so there was no trend towards improvement and his last season was only second-worst to his first and rookie season as a DC. In four of his six seasons there his Scoring D ranked below-average at 18th, 21st, 26th, and 27th. And again, his 6th ranked Scoring D was against the easiest schedule of any NFL team that decade and the past two seasons included. Who knows what happened in 2013, his third season there with the 2nd ranked D both Scoring and Yardage, but in the playoffs it was more of the same that we've seen here with defensive underachievement and a divisional round loss in their first playoff game, and to a team led by Kaepernick on top of it by letting SF dominate them offensively. Carolina had 8 drives and scored on 5 of them. I'd like to be optimistic regarding the defensive side of things, but between that above and our defensive performances in the playoffs with only two exceptions against to teams lacking any significant offensive prowess, tell me that I shouldn't hold my breath. On the flip side, if Dorsey and Allen can put the offense together properly, I see absolutely no reason why it cannot be the highest scoring offense in Bills' history. I'm not sure what to think offensively at the moment. Unless our OL is what it seems that it should be and Kincaid does something better than average for a TE, and they actually use the RBs more, then we should be fine. Whether Dorsey does that remains to be seen.

Thanks. I plucked that from page 2. Talk about freak accidents. I wonder who the moron was that hit him.

He did it off-site tho, whatever that means. I'm curious what he did to suffer a season-ender offsite.