PBF81

So in your opinion Klein's an above-average LB then. OK. Noted. I'd be curious on what basis, other than non-performance related measures such as the above that you based your opinion on. That's something we can discuss. Out of curiosity, did the comment on his age prompt any thoughts in your rush to opine?

I'll get to the rest of your post in a bit, busy now. But no, I meant I would make the same or similar statement contrarily. 🙂 I'll catch up to this in a bit ...

My thoughts as well. Klein's a 32 year-old below average LB. No significant cap hit and hasn't done much of anything in his most recent appearances. Does he qualify for the practice squad though?

Like Arians, who's hardly in the Hall of Fame discussion.

Agree At 32 he may be the best option there, but he ain't gettin' any faster and 4.5 of those sacks and one of the two FFs were clumped up in three games in 2020, he hasn't had a sack or FF since in over 500 defensive snaps. Last season he had 86 defensive snaps (not sure at which LB position, presumably MLB), to Dodson's 220 and Bernard's 110.

I think it got worse once Anheuser-Busch bought it.

Well, let's see, if Sparano can play essentially the same exact schedule with Chad Pennington at QB, an average-at-best Ronnie Brown at RB, and Ted Ginn Jr. and Greg Camarillo as his top offensive playmakers, featuring the league's 21st ranked Scoring Offense and 9th ranked Scoring Defense, and log the same exact record as Belichick did with Cassel at QB who was no worse than Pennington, Sammy Morris, Randy Moss and Wes Welker, both in their primes, while featuring the league's 8th ranked Scoring Offense and 8th ranked Scoring Defense, yeah, I'd say that it does make a world of sense. In essence, what you're saying is that Pennington, Brown, Ginn, and Camarillo > Cassel, Morris, Moss, and Welker. Even if they were equal, Sparano had the better record and edged out the tiebreaker. OK. I dare ya to put that out there in NFL circles for a poll and see what it shakes loose. I think we're finished here. Your take is delusional. LOL Really, believe what you want, which is clearly the case, but there's nothing more to discuss on this.

I also think that we're going to find out that in a more appropriate and traditional role, that Edmunds will be much better than he was here as well. He'll be a MLB in a traditional 4-3, IMO he's going to be one of the top LBs by season's end merely by virtue of that change, raising questions as to our approach here.

I appreciate the time you took to put all that in writing. I did read it. Let's just defer to the above, I would say the same. LOL And no hard feelings, it's just a discussion ... GO BILLS!!!! However, I would add that if your take on our approach over the past five seasons, implicitly if not directly, made sense, then his latter round picks after rounds 2 and 3 (Ford and Brown) and discounting this year's draft which has yet to take the field, would have performed to some relevant level, which they most certainly have not, as even you say. We both know, to your arguments, that the better players are typically going to be found the higher the round, at all positions. That's not debatable. The odds go down dramatically for finding talent in the later rounds, where Beane has found very little but depth, and frankly, nothing much above average for depth there either. We do not have to discuss it, I'm simply pointing out that we haven't even tried to use top resources for OL, not even in free agency until this season with McGovern, who's good but hardly Will Wolford or Jim Ritcher. Out of 39 draft picks on Beane's watch, not counting this year's draft, we've selected 6 OL-men. Ford and Brown, one bust and one quite possibly on the way to be pending this season. Otherwise, Teller, whom he traded away, not a good look in the context of this conversation there. 7th-rounder Anderson from '21, already gone, 6th-rounder Tenuta, from last year's draft, already gone, and 5th-rounder Doyle from '21 likely gone this season. That's all we've spent on 5 positions, or 5 of 22 (23%) of the starting players, is 15% of our draft picks, with 2/3 of them (4 of the 6) having been in the mid-5th or later, and none of them starting except for Brown who's as close to being relegated to backup as he is to becoming an above-average starter at RT. I'm not sure how that supports your position though. I realize that there's a lot of overlap in our points, which is agreement, but again, when you have Allen, and he's clearly lacking protection season in and season out for several years, and your solution is 1-2 year journeyman free-agents and 2nd and late 3rd-round OL-men picked otherwise, with never a 1st-rounder in 6 years of drafting, it does suggest things. I hope that Torrence really is the road-grader that everyone says he is. Can't wait for the pads to go on to find out. Same for Kincaid, I really hope that he's "our Kelce." Anyway, I think we've skinned this cat pretty well. Thanks for the civil and respectful response!! Go BILLS!!!!

Not at all. Edmunds played ILB at VA Tech and was projected as an ILB in the NFL. Williams was anything but projected as a MLB/ILB in the NFL. In fact, there's nothing at all in Williams' profile that is suggestive that he even has a good chance of being an even average MLB. nfl.com, PFF, and the others all say the same.

Well, it would certainly seem that he could have hired Sparano in at least one Brady-less season and gotten the same or better results, which shoots your initial argument in the foot about 20 times.

If it's fully healed, yes, if not, likely not. Players often elect not to have surgeries when they should just like they often don't come out of games when they should, due to concussions, etc. We'll find out on that and the rest though, very soon.

You should also add based on our approach to drafting and a seeming complete lack of concern for the position. At least that would explain the current situation. Sounds original and ambitious. I also think that only works if you have a LB that's also as good as Milano is. If you don't it could be playing with fire. We don't have that other LB on the roster yet. It is intriguing though. We'll find out soon whether there's an official MLB spot on the official depth chart or just two LBs. I'm not even sure why he's in the discussion. There's nothing in any of his major draft profiles that suggests he even has the skillset to play in the middle. Yet so many have insisted that they drafted him to play MLB.

Poyer did not have surgery by my understanding. Hyde had a back/neck issue and those have a nasty little habit of recurring. Both Benford and Elam have a pretty sizable jump to get to even average starter status. Let's hope that their "year 2" jump is better than what we've typically gotten from our draft picks. Floyd, Ford, Rapp we'll see. Rapp should be very good. I don't understand any particular excitement over Ford who won't even start. Floyd seems primarily destined to keep Miller's spot warm. Speaking of which, you forgot to mention Miller. Assuming that he comes back full strength, which is a huge questionmark, he's still on the cusp of aging out. The combination could be two much. With Floyd in for Miller we'll be somewhere between what we were there with Miller and having no reliable consistent pass-rusher. Either way, there's likely to be a huge unsolved hole in the middle of our D that IMO people are significantly discounting the impact of. No comment on the statement about the Offense? You think they can lead the league also? IMO, whatever they lose on D they'll make up for on O. Isn't it though.

One would think. Not for three seasons anyway, which is what it would take. Would I be off if I suggested that Kraft has more tolerated BB over the years than actually liked him.

I'm with ya, and it is mystifying, but let's be honest, drafting obviously isn't our strength. But if Kincaid is the Kelce clone that we're all hoping he is, and if Torrence turns into an above average G quickly, we can consider it a good draft even if none of the other draftees are here in two seasons. The offense is what's going to carry our team this season most likely, even during the regular season. Expect the D to drop significantly in the rankings, but with the #1 or #2 Offense they could land us a championship.

Again, to bad the discussion wasn't about Dorsey. Why waste our time?

Contrary to unofficial narratives here, Williams is a WLB and will back up Milano. He's got no realistic chance to play MLB. Defensive Counts: Dodson: 220 Bernard: 110 Spector: 12

I give up, how? The discussion wasn't about Dorsey.

What are we, in 6th grade. LOL Whatever. You claimed that he's been original, when I asked you how, you threw it into my lap. It's not that important, really, it isn't. LOL

It's also really not that important.

Not in and of itself, no.

I can't tell whether you're joking or not, but there's a context here related to the original post. Right now we're outside of it. I see that a lot, people commenting on the "last post," but ignoring the context that got it to that point. I think that may be where we are on this.

Perhaps, but I was referring to the methodology. They're no worse than the guys we never drafted.

As stated, our "efforts" over his first five drafts after getting Allen include a revolving door of journeymen OL-men, a 2nd-round pick, and a late 3rd-round pick in five drafts. Cincy drafted a C in the mid-1st in '18, a Jonah Williams 11th overall in '19, and an OT in the 2nd in '21. KC, according to PFF, had the 16th final ranked OL in 2019 but had a bunch of injuries there; the 4th final ranked OL in 2020, 5th in 2021, and 4th last season. Here are the links. 13th in 2018 with two top Ts and a slew of injuries to the interior OL. I'm not sure how any of that compares to our starters, which have generally sucked and have never been above average if I"m not mistaken. I didn't see us above-average there either. Maybe I missed one, but I don't think so. Either way, that's what I just found. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankings https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-following-2019-regular-season https://www.pff.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-17 But the point was the effort made to even get them. It's difficult to fault the methodology if they at least try. We barely did that.